[Growth Junkie]

Originally Posted by ecu19

Do you mind backing that up with some sources/studies? Why is the sequence an old notion? Why is it becoming less accepted? By who?

The body utilizes energy in that sequence (carbs->fats/lipids->protein last) because that is the most efficient sequence of energy. Fats have more energy to expend when broken down, so the body will use that as the secondary source of energy. Protein is the worst source of ENERGY (not muscle building source, pure energy) our body can utilize. Remember that whole cellular respiration portion of bio class? Glycolysis (glucose->pyruvate), formation of acetyl coa from pyruvate, Krebs cycle (acetyl coa loop), then the ETC (electron transport chain, jackpot baby!).

This also ties into the whole aerobic versus anaerobic respiration. Aerobic respiration is utilized and preferred by the body because it has the greatest outcome of produced energy (36atp i believe vs. just 2 for anaerobic). The body will not perform anaerobic respiration if it has oxygen to perform aerobic respiration. Why? Because it's more efficient to perform aerobic, and it will if it can.

OK I probably should have elaborated a bit more than i did. Just to clear the air...was not raggin on you so my appologies if it came off that way. Not disputing that CHO's are the most efficient form of energy and definately not rebuting on the aerobic vs. anaerobic BUT...no i don't mind backing it up..

All i was trying to point out was that we now know there is more of a crossover effect when utilizing the macronutrients for energy than previously thought. Meaning that is you are in a CHO depleted state your body burn just fat but will also utilize protein conjointly well before you run out of fat. The idea of utilizing one macronutrient then shifting to another is old and protein is brought into play to a greater extent than previously thought. The errors in early data collected are also exlpained. References below.

"More recent research on proteijn balance in exercise presents a compelling argument that protein serves as energy fuel to a much greater extent than previously believed, depending on energy expenditure and nutritional status...exercise in a carbohydrate depleted state caused significantly more protein catabolism than protein breakdown with ample carbohydrate reserves."

McArdle W., Katch F. & Katch V. (2005). Sport and Exercise Nutrition 2nd Edition p162.

"Initial attempts to evaluate the rolesof amino acids and proteins in supporting exercise were based on urinary nitrogen excretion determinations that did not take into account the substantial nitrogen loss in sweat or the complete balance of nitrogen input versus loss reulting from exercise. Hence, it was widely believed that only carbohydrates and fats were oxidized during exercise. We now know, however, that amino acids (e.g. leucine) are important for the preservation of homeostasis during exercise....more recently, on humans, it now appears that the oxidation of particular amino acids, including essential amino acids such as leucine is increased in proprtion to the increase in Vo2.."

Brooks G., Fahey T., White T., Baldwin K. (2000). Exercise Physiology. Human Bioenergetics and Its Applications 3rd Edition. P 687-688

[LSU Gladiator]

You can mix your regular whey with a fiber supplement and drink that before you go to sleep - the fiber will slow the rate of protein absorption down such that it is comparable to the rate of casein absorption. Plus you get to take a revitalizing dump in the morning!

Casein products are overpriced anyhow.

[DreamWeaver]

I don't because I don't have any problems maintaining or gaining mass at this time. I am not sure this is even necessary for people of my body type.

[Rodja]

Originally Posted by LSU Gladiator

You can mix your regular whey with a fiber supplement and drink that before you go to sleep - the fiber will slow the rate of protein absorption down such that it is comparable to the rate of casein absorption. Plus you get to take a revitalizing dump in the morning!

Casein products are overpriced anyhow.

A good MPI is cheaper than WPI nowadays. Best of both worlds that way, especially when combined with some EFAs.

[DreamOfWeight]

i only take it when i dont take my zmk

[TOYFORDOLET]

I'm all about Milk Protein as it has a nice ratio of whey/casein, cottage cheese is also a night time staple for me. Mix this with some natty pb and/or peanuts and Im good to go til the morning.

[ndawson89]

yeah i use ultra peptide, just bought a can and thinking of having it as part of my staple, instead of purely whey as i've been using.

[MrBrightside]

Skim milk works just fine. I don't need a powder for Casein.

[DaveGabe24]

Originally Posted by MrBrightside

Skim milk works just fine. I don't need a powder for Casein.

Dont need a powder for casein?



MPI + Natty PB is my fav combo

[bigjohn58]

I use ON's chocolate Casein and if you let it sit after mixing it it becomes cake batter but if you drink it right away then its fine. I switch every other night usually one night casein the next night cottage cheese and a glass of skim milk.

[MrBrightside]

Originally Posted by DaveGabe24

Dont need a powder for casein?



MPI + Natty PB is my fav combo

Milk and cheese protein is composed of give or take 80% Casein. So, yes, I do not need a powder.

[TOYFORDOLET]

The problem with milk as the only source of protein means you have to take in lots of carbs in order to get enough protein, and while this could be fine for day time meals, I don't think this is ideal for a pre-bed meal.

[smshannon001]

i only did casein during hell week for football in high school because of the double up on practice (didnt want to burn as much muscle)
and i would use it on days i would have practice and lift, but IMO i dont see it as necessary and wont spend the money on it now

[Outside Backer]

i dont do it anymore i sleep better when my body is resting and not working to digest

[ams1]

i just drink my protein and sleep. i like being full

[wrasslin116]

Yes I use slow release protein so it digests longer prolonging the catabolic state.
I'm to cheap for casein protein so I use 1 cup cottage cheese fat free.