Is phenibut a good idea to help with opiate withdrawal?
- 05-16-2008, 04:06 PM
Is phenibut a good idea to help with opiate withdrawal?
Okay so earlier on in the week I decided to pop about 3 vicodin pills. I've come to find out that this was a very bad idea, and I had been taking the stuff on and off for the last couple weeks or so.
The other night it hit me the worst when my withdrawal peaked, I was shivering and dry heaving and couldn't sleep, my vision even was getting kinda distorted. Thankfully it's over and things have gradually been getting better, but I still feel a little irritable and anxious. I read on the net that withdrawal might last as long as 1-2 weeks and that doesn't sound very fun.
I've taken some st. john's wort since I read it can help with substance withdrawals, and I do think it is making me feel a bit better.
I'm wondering whether I should take some to help ease my pain. I actually took some of it along with the vicodin to enhance the euphoric effects and it did work for that. I am cautious though as I think people have said that it could be slightly addictive on it's own.
So for opiate withdrawal yay or nay? Also does anyone have any other suggestions? I've also been taking at night since I read it helps, but I'm not sure if it's been doing anything.
- 05-16-2008, 06:01 PM
Green tea. I dont know why. I brew a pot of green tea mornings when i get cravings and drink it all day long. It helps with over all mood, aches, pains, everything. I use my coffee machine. Put 12 tea bags in the coffee pot and let the hot water fill up the pot with the bags in it. When you pour a cup dillute it with half water, it will make it less bitter and the pot lasts last longer.
also to sleep at night Diphenhydramine Hcl (Benedryl) 50 mgs and 6 mgs of melatonin will knock you out everytime. its my new sleeping cocktail, it works like magic.
05-16-2008, 06:09 PM
Hey man, what ever you do stay strong and good luck, I am familiar with all types of addictions ( family and friends) and know withdraw is hard. Hope everything works out for you. On that note I believe tyrosine may also be beneficial, If I can find the info I will post it.
Muscle Pharm Rep
05-16-2008, 06:10 PM
Vitamin B-5 500mg to 1 gram per day - vitamin B-5 is the vitamin that is needed to metabolize and breakdown substances in the brain. In other words you need enough vitamin B-5 for the brain to work optimally. According to Dr. Bob, usually vitamin B-5 in brain metabolism needs about a 1-3 ratio to other brain substances such as choline, L-phenylalanine, and others to properly effect the necessary chemical reactions in the brain. This is why Dr. Bob recommended one-half to one gram per day.
L-phenylalanine 250mg per day – L-phenylalanine is an essential amino acid that is a precursor to two key neurotransmitters (chemical messengers of the brain) that promote alertness: dopamine and norepinephrine. The effects of improving dopamine and norepinephrine can lead to elevated mood, aid in memory and learning, and decrease pain. It is often used in orthomolecular medicine to treat depression. Supplemental L-phenylalanine should not be taken by pregnant women or by people who suffer from anxiety attacks, diabetes, high blood pressure, phenylketonuria (PKU), or preexisting pigmented melanoma, a type of skin cancer and multiple sclerosis.
Tyrosine 500mg per day - tyrosine is another precursor of the neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine, which regulate mood, among other things. A deficiency of norepinephrine in the brain can result in depression. It also is involved in the metabolism of L-phenylalanine. Supplements of L-tyrosine should be taken at bedtime or with a high carbohydrate meal so that it does not have to compete for absorption with other amino acids. Persons taking monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors often prescribed for depression should not take any supplements containing L-tyrosine, as it may lead to a sudden and dangerous rise in blood pressure. Persons with multiple sclerosis should not use supplemental tyrosine.
Citicholine 250mg per day, also called CDP-Choline - citicholine is metabolized in the brain to produce the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is involved with memory, thought, sexual function and many other vital aspects of functioning. Improving acetylcholine levels is an aid in regenerating a heroin user's brain. Citicholine also has been shown to be involved in producing other neurotransmitters of the brain. Take it in conjunction with vitamin B-5 supplementation.
L-pyroglutamate 800-1000mg per day - enhances acetylcholine function because it boosts the metabolism of the neurons that manufacture acetylcholine. It also improves acetylcholine by increasing the number of cholinergic receptors in the brain. The cholinergic system is the primary conduit of thought and memory that mainly employs the neurotransmitter acetylcholine.
Acetyl-L-carnitine 1 gram per day - is an important antioxidant of the brain and is involved in many aspects of neuronal metabolism. Antioxidants neutralize free radicals and damage from heroin use to brain tissue results in the accumulation of free radicals. Heroin use also makes it vital to stimulate neuronal metabolism, the ability to produce energy for the chemical reactions necessary for the brain to work.
Deprenyl - is a prescription substance that is capable of protecting the important neurotransmitter dopamine. Low levels of dopamine can impair cognitive function. Inform the doctor of any other supplements you are taking in conjunction with deprenyl, since all of the substances mentioned in this protocol create synergy and make each more potent. In other words all of these substances in this protocol help each other work better and therefore the doctor will need to determine your deprenyl dose, which may be more or less the usual dose recommended.
Melatonin 1-3 grams at bedtime - the main antioxidant of the brain, it helps to repair and protect the brain from damage. We mentioned that heroin use leads to accumulation of free radicals from prior damage and ongoing damage. Melatonin helps to neutralize and repair this damage.
Hydergine Sandoz - this is a prescription substance that increases oxygen in the brain tissue. Increasing oxygen in brain tissue can greatly improve the brain of a heroin user. We mentioned that damage to the brain can lead to decreased circulation. The decreased circulation reduces the levels of oxygen that can get to brain tissue. Hydergine can improve this condition. Hydergine acts in synergy with most of the nutritional supplements in this article. You therefore need a doctor who is familiar with hydergine and will know what dose to start you off at and what dose to build you up to. Inform your doctor of the other supplements you are taking when you ask about Hydergine.
Muscle Pharm Rep
05-17-2008, 12:28 PM
To answer the OP's question, phenibut is not addictive, however, it is a strong sedative, and your body builds up tolerance to it very rapidly.
05-17-2008, 01:06 PM
05-17-2008, 02:59 PM
From the sound of your usage history, you have not had the chemical in your system long enough to become physically dependent upon it, however the mental thing is the actual hard part.
Unfortunately, I've dealt with long time opioid usage myself and one thing that made the detox a bit more humane was buprenorphine (buprenex brand name). I've done a few detoxes courtesy of the local sheriff's office and I can attest to that not being fun.
PM me with any questions and I will try to tell you what worked for me.
05-17-2008, 04:53 PM
Well to tell you the truth years ago back when I was around 16/17 years old I did in fact use heroin occasionally, not a very pretty part of my life, but I was still able to detox myself and was careful about how often I would use the stuff, so even though it was years ago I'm thinking my brain still might be a bit more susceptible than usual to withdrawals, but for the most part I think I am fairly normal when it comes to that. Also I did take the vicodin pills about once every 5 days or so for a short while before the last time I took it.
As of now though I think I have come full circle, and I am feeling pretty good. I read that withdrawals are basically supposed to peak at one point within 2 days or so, which it did for me, and then slowly fade out from there on. So even though I was at a point of being fairly functional, I still felt really really irritable and bitter about every little thing after the withdrawal peak, but now I'm feeling much better.
05-17-2008, 05:18 PM
I have thought about buying some phenibut myself to help me sleep at night and to help with my opiate withdrawals also .So what is the final verdict about it .I have saw some good reviews and posts about it at bulknutrition.com .I do not have any transportation presently so the phenibut option might be more feasible and cheaper for me .I am pretty sure that my insurance will pay for the suboxone and doctors visits to get it but I do not have anyone I can rely on regularly to to take me to get the suboxone presently .The doctor I usually see that I get all my present medication from is only 7.5 miles away .
05-18-2008, 11:55 AM
I have also tried naltrexone implants twice(a small incision is made in a fatty area and a slow-dissolve pellet is placed in you that blocks opioid receptors in the brain for approx. 90 days).
I have tried alot of different things to rid myself of this "problem", but it wasn't until I was able to grasp that this is actually a disease, was I able to become receptive to help.
Like I said earlier, I will try to answer any questions you or anyone for that matter, may have concerning chemical dependence. In no way am I an expert in the field, but I can tell you my personal experience of strength and hope.
05-18-2008, 12:14 PM
i'm glad the OP got over the W/D's. I know too from personal experience that it isn't any fun. just like a couple of the other guys going through it in jail. Some places they'll give you something just to help with the anxiety but most they don't give you sh1t. The way they look at it is you may feel like you're gonna die but you won't from opiate w/d's. Your best bet is to stay away from opiates if you get hurt or something tell the Dr. you're an opiate addict and to give you something non-narcotic. And don't feel ashamed there's a lot of addicts in this world. You may want to get involved in a 12 step program, however thats your choice. it works for a lot but not everybody. Personally I don't like traditional 12 step programs but i do get counseling. Whatever works for you brother.
05-18-2008, 12:55 PM
Going through opiate w/d in jail is no fun ,something I have not went through in a long time .I got 10mg of valium twice a day once but they gave it to me supposedly because I also have a nervous disorder which is one of the reasons I get a Social Security disability check .I went back to the same jail again after getting valium but did not get it that time but was only in lock-up for about a 1/3 as long that time .That was the last time I spent any time in lock-up which was over 10 years ago ..I think I am going to buy some phenibut anyway and give it a try if nothing else to help me sleep at night .I seem to wake up about every hour all night long and only get about 4 to 6 hrs of sleep most of the time .Quite often I get even less sleep or none at all .I never slept any Friday night and finally got some sporadic sleep last night and not because I am having opiate W/D.
05-18-2008, 04:48 PM
05-18-2008, 05:40 PM
09-09-2014, 09:32 PM
::for informational use, I realize the OP is through their kick::
It sounds like you've only been taking it a few weeks and your withdrawals reflect that as well. Just be glad your not into the dope sick territory, which comes after high doses are used for longer periods.
In short answer, yes phenibut can be great for mitigating withdrawals, especially at night when the restless legs keep you up.
I don't like phenibut for daily use, however as it will produce it's own brand of withdrawal effects if taken that way. Compare it to a healthy dose of benzodiazapene and dose accordingly. i.e. 1-3x a week - any more is asking for trouble, eventually
What has helped me more than anything (and i've tried just about everything) is taking 2000mgs of vitamin C every hour or so that I'm awake.
It sounds too easy, but I've come off of some pretty major habits this way and was able to maintain a somewhat normal life during the process.
Withdrawals from a full blown habit will last around 3-4 weeks, for me.
It sounds like you've more or less been dabbling, so I'd say in a week you should be fine. More of a mental game. Try eating some relaxation blend herbal tea. Just rip the thing open and down it with some water.
I take a couple of those from time to time when I can't sleep or settle down, works decent.
09-09-2014, 11:07 PM
09-11-2014, 07:40 AM
I personally wouldn't recommend phenibut here. Taken in small amounts for a bit of time it can be fine, however the withdrawal for extended phenibut use is as bad or worse than that of opiates. If you only took Vicodin for a couple of weeks, chances are your withdrawal won't last terribly long and in comparison to most, will be pretty mild.
NSCA-CSCS and CPT - Doctor of Physical Therapy
09-11-2014, 03:41 PM
Seek professional help.
09-11-2014, 05:10 PM
09-11-2014, 05:13 PM
09-11-2014, 05:21 PM
09-11-2014, 05:25 PM
09-11-2014, 11:16 PM
I think phenibut is a bad idea, if you look at the old threads it will give you an idea...If you have an addictive personality I think it's definately a bad idea. Have you ever considered something from your doctor along the lines of clonidine HCL? It is used to lower BP and in the treatment of opoid withdrawal. That might be a start anyways..
09-12-2014, 10:14 AM
09-12-2014, 10:16 AM
09-12-2014, 10:22 AM
There's folks that use drugs recreation-ally and are able to not have a problem discontinuing use. It's the habitual users whom are afraid to come off a substance which are the ones that have high risk factors. Not an expert on the subject obviously, but that is my understanding of it.
09-12-2014, 10:26 AM
That's a good question. I actually feel like I read a study about that relatively recently. Getting off is terrible, but with the high rate of relapse even after withdrawal is complete, the sensation of being "high" has got to be a driving factor there. I'll see if I can dig up the study.
NSCA-CSCS and CPT - Doctor of Physical Therapy
09-12-2014, 10:35 AM
09-12-2014, 10:35 AM
09-12-2014, 10:37 AM
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