Waxy Maise Starch?

[tim1985]

So is wms a simple or complex carb? i have 2 tubs of some already, but im wanting to know which one it is. im wanting a complex carb(powder form) to use with my p-slin.

 

[T-Bone]

Cut and Paste job from Nutraplanet website

So is wms a simple or complex carb? i have 2 tubs of some already, but im wanting to know which one it is. im wanting a complex carb(powder form) to use with my p-slin.

Waxy Maize Starch is a long chain complex carbohydrate with a molecular weight 100 times greater than maltodextrin and 3000 times greater than dextrose, making it the “perfect carb” for athletes and bodybuilders for recovery and muscle fullness. Due to its higher molecular weight, Waxy Maze Starch (WMS) has the ability to move through the stomach 80% faster than dextrose or maltodextrin, for rapid glycogen replenishment and nutrient uptake in the muscles. Bottom line, NutraPlanet KWICK KARB™ is the ideal super carbohydrate for faster recovery and massive pumps without bloating or gastro discomfort at an unbeatable price!

The 3.3 lbs smokin deal is a FULL 1500 GRAMS of Kwik Karb Muscle Bursting Goodness.

Figure out that if you take 20 grams during workout, and another 30 PWO, this will last you an ENTIRE MONTH for only $12.50!

Tell me Who Can Beat the Planet???

 

[B5150]

Well here is a partial write-up:

Waxy Maize Starch is a long chain complex carbohydrate with a molecular weight 100 times greater than maltodextrin and 3000 times greater than dextrose, making it the “perfect carb” for athletes and bodybuilders for recovery and muscle fullness. Due to its higher molecular weight, Waxy Maze Starch (WMS) has the ability to move through the stomach 80% faster than dextrose or maltodextrin, for rapid glycogen replenishment and nutrient uptake in the muscles.

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutraplanet/kwick-karb-waxy-maize-starch-1-kilo.html

 

[B5150]

T-Bone!!!

 

[tim1985]

thanks for the help, and your right you can't beat nutras prices. i already have two 3.3lb tubs, i was also looking into carbo-gain by NOW but they appear to be the same thing.

 

[jsp0882]

thanks for the help, and your right you can't beat nutras prices. i already have two 3.3lb tubs, i was also looking into carbo-gain by NOW but they appear to be the same thing.

i've always seen that waxy maize is a simple carb. i dont think you'd use a complex carb for post workout recovery. and i don't think they would put it in vitargo to help creatine absorb better if it was complex. and why would they compare it to maltodextrin if it was a complex carb.

 

[T-Bone]

i've always seen that waxy maize is a simple carb. i dont think you'd use a complex carb for post workout recovery. and i don't think they would put it in vitargo to help creatine absorb better if it was complex. and why would they compare it to maltodextrin if it was a complex carb.

Read the descriptions that me and b5150 have provided.

 

[jsp0882]

Read the descriptions that me and b5150 have provided.

yes but why would a complex carb be suggested for use in recovery after a work out?

 

[jsp0882]

it is a complex carb but it absorbs faster thus wouldn't it give the same properties of a simple carb? or is there no insulin spike with it?

 

[VINYL]

There is minimal to no insulin spike.
It is absorbed through the small intestines not the stomach, it directly replaces low glycogen levels post workout. I love waxy maize.... gianed good weight with it and no fat

 

[tim1985]

so what would your recommend to take w/ p-slin? a while back t-bone told me to take 3 scoops wms and some whey and be in the gym 1.5 hour later. that didn't work too well for me, so should i up the dose of wms and eat some simple carbs w/ it and some whey then go to the gym 1.5 hours later? btw what does 3 scoops of wms equal too? i have trouble dosing this so i could use the help.

 

[jsp0882]

so what would your recommend to take w/ p-slin? a while back t-bone told me to take 3 scoops wms and some whey and be in the gym 1.5 hour later. that didn't work too well for me, so should i up the dose of wms and eat some simple carbs w/ it and some whey then go to the gym 1.5 hours later? btw what does 3 scoops of wms equal too? i have trouble dosing this so i could use the help.

why not try eating real food instead of drinking supplements. some oats or brown rice or something.

 

[T-Bone]

so what would your recommend to take w/ p-slin? a while back t-bone told me to take 3 scoops wms and some whey and be in the gym 1.5 hour later. that didn't work too well for me, so should i up the dose of wms and eat some simple carbs w/ it and some whey then go to the gym 1.5 hours later? btw what does 3 scoops of wms equal too? i have trouble dosing this so i could use the help.

I thought I said a half hour. I would say a half hour because the waxy maize works so quick. Maybe you got it confused. Or I messed up typing. I would recommend taking pslin on a empty stomach and then wait at least 1/2 hour, then take your waxy maize. Also waxy maize does give an insulin spike, quite drastically, that is really the point.

 

[tim1985]

why not try eating real food instead of drinking supplements. some oats or brown rice or something.

ive only tried the wms method 3-4 times, ive been eating 4 servings of oatmeal w/ p-slin but i still haven't been feeling the endurance benefits of p-slin but i have been more pumped and more vascular than usual.

 

[jsp0882]

ive only tried the wms method 3-4 times, ive been eating 4 servings of oatmeal w/ p-slin but i still haven't been feeling the endurance benefits of p-slin but i have been more pumped and more vascular than usual.

add some protein and stuff to it. i haven't taken pslin but seemed to have more of the affects of anabolic pump when eating a full meal and not just carbs.

 

[tim1985]

I thought I said a half hour. I would say a half hour because the waxy maize works so quick. Maybe you got it confused. Or I messed up typing. I would recommend taking pslin on a empty stomach and then wait at least 1/2 hour, then take your waxy maize. Also waxy maize does give an insulin spike, quite drastically, that is really the point.

i believe you did say 1.5 hours later but i will def try what you just mentioned. reps for the help man!

 

[T-Bone]

ive only tried the wms method 3-4 times, ive been eating 4 servings of oatmeal w/ p-slin but i still haven't been feeling the endurance benefits of p-slin but i have been more pumped and more vascular than usual.

Oats and brown rice will slow digestion and blunt the insulin response which is exactly the opposite of what you want while using pslin.

 

[jsp0882]

Oats and brown rice will slow digestion and blunt the insulin response which is exactly the opposite of what you want while using pslin.

aren't u supposed to eat complex carbs when taking anabolic pump or p-slin?

P-Slin Suggested Use
On workout days: Take 1 capsule fifteen minutes before your pre-workout meal. It is absolutely paramount that you eat at least 60 to 100 grams of complex carbohydrates to maximize the amazing effects of P-Slin.

last time i checked the reason for complex carbs is so you don't get a big insulin spike

 

[SilentBob187]

i was also looking into carbo-gain by NOW but they appear to be the same thing.

That's Maltodextrin.

 

[T-Bone]

aren't u supposed to eat complex carbs when taking anabolic pump or p-slin?

P-Slin Suggested Use
On workout days: Take 1 capsule fifteen minutes before your pre-workout meal. It is absolutely paramount that you eat at least 60 to 100 grams of complex carbohydrates to maximize the amazing effects of P-Slin.

last time i checked the reason for complex carbs is so you don't get a big insulin spike

Waxy Maize is a complex carb. I believe the directions on Pslin could be updated somewhat but they are the same as anabolic pump. However, I don't think the reason for complex carbs is so you don't get a big insulin spike. It is slightly more complicated than that. When taking AP the reason for the complex carbs maybe with a little fiber is so you don't get a big insulin spike. That would be during the day though with your small meals every 2-3 hours. Pre-workout is a different story. At this time it makes more sense to use a faster digesting carb like Waxy Maize. You use the Pslin like a gun or cattle implant!. Not littlerally, but to "Shuttle" the carbs to your muscles esentially "loading" them with glycogen!. Take your Pslin on an empty stomach. Wait at least 1/2 hour for it to take effect/digest. Then load up your muscles really fast with Waxy Maize starch. At this point your glycogen stores are loaded and your muscles are ready to work. Now get to the gym and use those muscles!.

 

[jsp0882]

Waxy Maize is a complex carb. I believe the directions on Pslin could be updated somewhat but they are the same as anabolic pump. However, I don't think the reason for complex carbs is so you don't get a big insulin spike. It is slightly more complicated than that.

it is a complex carb but it basically acts the same as a simple carb.

 

[tim1985]

That's Maltodextrin.

and malto is a simple?

 

[Steveoph]

T-Bone with the steal lol.
And malto isn't a simple sugar per se. Good reading at http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine03/dextrose.htm .

 

[jakellpet]

add some protein and stuff to it. i haven't taken pslin but seemed to have more of the affects of anabolic pump when eating a full meal and not just carbs.

For P-Slin the following works for me:

Uncap a PSLin and add 5g Mono with water (don't taste that bad) on an empty stomach:

15-20min later:

Blend a cup of oats with a banana and some unprocessed honey with 30g WPI.

60min later workout.

You can sip some simple carbs or a mixture with WMS during WO for glycogen replentishment

 

[rolandajoint]

sorry to jeck the thread, but brown rice and oats are not good for use with p-slin or anabolic pump? im confused now. i thought those things were perfect for these products?

 

[jakellpet]

sorry to jeck the thread, but brown rice and oats are not good for use with p-slin or anabolic pump? im confused now. i thought those things were perfect for these products?

the USPLabs reps recommend oats as the best carb source for P-Slin. I blend it down real fine to help with digestion

 

[corsaking]

Not sure why you would spend money on P-SLIN. when 1-2 grams of taurine can mimic insulin at muscle cell receptor sites and transport nutrients to muscle cell, post workout---------------AND its cheaper.


This would be my first move then move on to something like usp labs p-slin if you feel your not achieving .

 

[B5150]

Not sure why you would spend money on P-SLIN. when 1-2 grams of taurine can mimic insulin at muscle cell receptor sites and transport nutrients to muscle cell, post workout---------------AND its cheaper.


This would be my first move then move on to something like usp labs p-slin if you feel your not achieving .

References/studies please?

 

[T-Bone]

sorry to jeck the thread, but brown rice and oats are not good for use with p-slin or anabolic pump? im confused now. i thought those things were perfect for these products?

Those sources would fine, just not pre-workout. Pre-workout you want something fast to load glycogen.

 

[bolt10]

Not sure why you would spend money on P-SLIN. when 1-2 grams of taurine can mimic insulin at muscle cell receptor sites and transport nutrients to muscle cell, post workout---------------AND its cheaper.


This would be my first move then move on to something like usp labs p-slin if you feel your not achieving .

Really now?

I prefer whole foods with my p-slin(or just anytime in general) and only use my WMS on refeeds and to toss in my during workout drinks.

 

[delsolrob]

Those sources would fine, just not pre-workout. Pre-workout you want something fast to load glycogen.

crap, now I'm confused!

don't you "want" slow burning carbs to eliminate crashing during workouts?

 

[corsaking]

For those who would like further information on taurine , this is taken from web site -ILL PUMP YOU UPQ: Can taurine have an anabolic effect?
A: Certainly, from a bodybuilding standpoint, nothing is more important than maintaining an anabolic state. Bodybuilders eat 5-6 times per day and maintain a high protein and carbohydrate intake while attempting to limit fat intake. They train intensely and recover sufficiently in the hope of increasing muscle protein. And of course, they take more supplements than any other athlete. Glutamine, creatine, branched-chain aminos... you name it, they consume it. Well, what about taurine? Can it play a role in the bodybuilder’s arsenal of supplements?

More than 50 years ago, scientists discovered that taurine had an effect similar to that of insulin on carbohydrate metabolism it acted as a strong hypoglycemic agent. In 1964, this amino was found to increase glucose utilization in the diaphragm muscles of rats. You may be asking, Why is this important to me?” Think about it: What hormone produces a drop in blood-glucose levels and transports glucose into cells? Insulin! Now, you may not agree with this, but some scientists refer to insulin as “the anabolic hormone.” Indeed, insulin promotes the influx of amino acids and glucose into muscle tissue. The importance of insulin should be self-evident.

Taurine mimics the action of insulin both in vivo (in living organisms) and in vitro (test tubes). In one experiment, it stimulated glucose uptake into cells at 50% the capacity of insulin. Insulin and taurine also similarly increase the uptake of the amino acid proline into rat diaphragms. Interestingly, the combination of insulin and taurine was no better than either insulin or taurine by itself. Furthermore, like insulin, taurine can stimulate the formation of glycogen in cardiac muscle, certainly an important aspect of your training.
ALSO http://www.tsrf.com/supplements/supplements_taur.htm
see also google search engine

L. REA -BUILDING THE BEAST NATURALLY has reference to it

 

[LSU Gladiator]

There is minimal to no insulin spike

:nono:Absolute Bullsh*t.

Waxy maize is a starch from a mutant form of corn that only produces amylopectin-based starch. Normal starch is a mixture of amylopectin and amylose. Amylopectin more closely resembles human glycogen.

Here is a study where they were able to induce insulin resistance in rats with the amylopectin starch.

Amylopectin Starch Promotes the Development of Insulin Resistance in Rats -- Byrnes et al. 125 (6): 1430 -- Journal of Nutrition

There is no such thing as a convenient drink-right-before-workout carbohydrate to my knowledge. If you ingest something with a high glycemic index, you're going to spike your insulin and then go hypoglycemic during the workout. The best strategy is to plan in advance and ingest slow burning (low glycemic) carbohydrates about an hour or so before the workout so that the carbs can seep into the blood stream and provide energy as needed without exciting an insulin response.

 

[corsaking]

totally agree with Gladiator.

Energy levels in the gyn need to be sustained a peak and trough is NOT a good idea prior or during workout.

IMO there are only 2 occassions when an insulin spike is necessary ,on waking and on an empty stomach -mix approx 10 gms of dextrose with 25 gms of whey protein , shower then have your oats or complex carbs

and second straight after a workout.

The body needs refuelling on both occasions quickly , dextrose will provide glucose in the bloodstream which should allow whey protein to be shuttled into the muscle, amino acid uptake.

At other times carbs should be slow acting IMO.

If you want a slow release carb drink try PALATINOSE

http://www.myprotein.co.uk/img/pdf/palatinose-details.pdf

 

[jsp0882]

For those who would like further information on taurine , this is taken from web site -ILL PUMP YOU UPQ: Can taurine have an anabolic effect?
A: Certainly, from a bodybuilding standpoint, nothing is more important than maintaining an anabolic state. Bodybuilders eat 5-6 times per day and maintain a high protein and carbohydrate intake while attempting to limit fat intake. They train intensely and recover sufficiently in the hope of increasing muscle protein. And of course, they take more supplements than any other athlete. Glutamine, creatine, branched-chain aminos... you name it, they consume it. Well, what about taurine? Can it play a role in the bodybuilder’s arsenal of supplements?

More than 50 years ago, scientists discovered that taurine had an effect similar to that of insulin on carbohydrate metabolism it acted as a strong hypoglycemic agent. In 1964, this amino was found to increase glucose utilization in the diaphragm muscles of rats. You may be asking, Why is this important to me?” Think about it: What hormone produces a drop in blood-glucose levels and transports glucose into cells? Insulin! Now, you may not agree with this, but some scientists refer to insulin as “the anabolic hormone.” Indeed, insulin promotes the influx of amino acids and glucose into muscle tissue. The importance of insulin should be self-evident.

Taurine mimics the action of insulin both in vivo (in living organisms) and in vitro (test tubes). In one experiment, it stimulated glucose uptake into cells at 50% the capacity of insulin. Insulin and taurine also similarly increase the uptake of the amino acid proline into rat diaphragms. Interestingly, the combination of insulin and taurine was no better than either insulin or taurine by itself. Furthermore, like insulin, taurine can stimulate the formation of glycogen in cardiac muscle, certainly an important aspect of your training.
ALSO http://www.tsrf.com/supplements/supplements_taur.htm
see also google search engine

L. REA -BUILDING THE BEAST NATURALLY has reference to it

that's fine but isn't the point of pslin and anabolic pump that it directs all the carbs into muscle cells and keeps them out of fat cells? doesn't seem like taurine is that selective.

 

[rolandajoint]

im so fcuking confused now. ive always thought slow burning carbs were the perfect fuel for the gym, and for use with products like pslin and ap. and i thought the point of wms was that its quick digestion and insulin spike were the highlights because the spike shuttles nutrients to where they are needed.

 

[jsp0882]

im so fcuking confused now. ive always thought slow burning carbs were the perfect fuel for the gym, and for use with products like pslin and ap. and i thought the point of wms was that its quick digestion and insulin spike were the highlights because the spike shuttles nutrients to where they are needed.

thats what i thought. waxy maise is a complex carb but with how fast it digests it acts as a simple carb. thats what i'm getting out of the conversations.

 

[LSU Gladiator]

Im so fcuking confused now. ive always thought slow burning carbs were the perfect fuel for the gym, and for use with products like pslin and ap. and i thought the point of wms was that its quick digestion and insulin spike were the highlights because the spike shuttles nutrients to where they are needed.

That is absolutely correct and don't you let anyone tell you otherwise! :thumbsup:

 

[rolandajoint]

That is absolutely correct and don't you let anyone tell you otherwise! :thumbsup:

thanks dad! haha awesome dood. im just waiting for usp to come in and regulate this motha

 

[corsaking]

Thats right about the insulin spike .What ive said is IMO there are only 2 occassions when an insulin spike is necessary ,on waking on an empty stomach -mix approx 10 gms of dextrose with 25 gms of whey protein , shower then have your oats or complex carbs
Taurine could be added to this, 2gms, as it is believed to mimic
insulin at the muscle receptor sites.
EDIT-THE SECOND TIME STRAIGHT AFTER A WORKOUT but more dextrose and whey
As with anything , we dont know if it works til we try it over a period of time. Some of the advertising associated with supplements can sound logical and convincing , so trust your own judgement and do your research even if it means researching each individual ingredient on google .

Never take anything at face value