Looking to go fully natty...... - AnabolicMinds.com

Looking to go fully natty......

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  1. IBE Representative
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    Looking to go fully natty......


    Not gonna use Ph's or Roids anymore, fully natural. After saving A TON of money since i'm not doing anymore cycles, i got some money to put towards supps.

    Using the following products, looking mainly to bulk a bit, maybe add some lean lean muscle.

    V-12
    100% whey
    ZMA
    Flax oil
    Multi vitamin
    muscle milk before bed

    Can't think of anything. Anything else you think i should toss in there? I'm open to all suggestions, price is not an issue

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    Dont take muscle milk before bed- I just dont trust how much carbs is in that stuff tastes to good

    I have been drinking muscle provider with some natural peanut butter before bed and it works great. If I dont wake up in the midddle of the night hungry I know its working
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    muscle milk has been dropped, and muscle provider has been added.

    Also throw in Power train to the list.
    •   
       

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    Hey bro, this is the same thing I'm contemplating. Since I ccan't eve n use 1-test anymore, I don't think the other PH's are really worth it IMO.

    Try adding a good natty test optimizer. I posted the question a while back, but still haven't gotten around to finding which one is best. Maybe use a cortisol suppresent, extra calcium--no doubt. I just bought a box of some bars, incase of some inconvenience at work/school. I use some R-ALA, etc. I think it would be great to try and get more anabolism through amino acids, etc. Maybe get some arginine and take it w/ your v-12.

    There's a lot of things I can think of, I'll post more tommorow, gotta get up early.
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    Muscle Provider is expensive though but lots of bro's here love it. In fact I bought because of the stuff I read here. San Infusion is a good nighttime protien also just the taste gets old before u use up the jug
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    Jon, If money is no object, go with all Beverly supps. Ultra-Size, 100% Egg, and Muscle Provider are their best proteins, but the best before bed is Optimum Complete Protein Diet. Beverly says their 100% Egg blended with Muscle Provider makes the most anabolic protein blend on the planet. Check the amino acid balance and you will agree. 50 gms of this would be a great post-workout shake. Optimum Pro-Complex is more whey and less casein, and has TOO MANY added vitamins so I avoid it.

    The 2 most anabolic whole foods are WHOLE eggs and liver. Ken K (same) once told me he ate 1 lb cooked beef liver daily for 2 weeks straight and felt like he was doing a tren cycle. The high cholesterol issue is outdated and invalid. I will explain on the phone or aim. I ate 12 or more whole eggs daily for years and made my best gains ever during this time. 26 years old then. My cholesterol has never been overly high.

    Make sure you eat a whole food protein/carb meal an hour or more prior to your workout to provide a positive nitrogen balance all through that period. Take 4 Beverly Muscle Mass BCAA tabs prior to your workout and 4 every 10 minutes or so throughout for a total of about 32 to help stave off catabolism. These are the aminos the body runs short of during an intense workout and will cannabilize lean tissue to obtain. You will notice a decreased muscle soreness the next day if you take enough. Also the combo of BCAA and pre-workout meal diminishes the need for an ultra-high dextrose spike post-workout. Add oats instead.

    I take 25-35 Beverly Ultra-40 liver tabs daily and about a dozen with my pre-workout meal. These are very important for a nattie, especial for the anti-fatigue enzyme p-450. Eat lots of salmon. Sockeye is the best, both in terms of protein quality and omega oils. Take 5 tbs Flax oil daily to prevent joint problems.

    Add HMB to your V-12 for an additive effect. HMB does little by itself. Works great with creatine. Several studies back this up. Hope this helps. Probably little here you didn't already know. Talk to you soon, my friend.
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    What is this natural thing you speak of???

    I will be interested to see how this goes for you bro.
  8. Jergo's Avatar
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    John, some questions for you. That liver thing caught my eye. How would you go about preparing it; as in a more of a convenience meal? Also, the liver tabs, you are saying that I can take those during workout or just throughtout the day? BCAA's during? IOW, whats the difference between Beverly BCAA's and UNi liver tabs?

    What if I could get a really good deal on some HMB, and say I could take like 4 grams or so/day, beneficial?


    Johnblaze, I'd also get some B12. I'm also gonna get some 5-htp tommorrow as it works pretty descent for me.
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    Vendetta and/or ICE
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    Originally posted by John Benz
    Ken K (same) once told me he ate 1 lb cooked beef liver daily for 2 weeks straight and felt like he was doing a tren cycle.
    Ken was an idiot


    But we won't get into that John...
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  11. Jergo's Avatar
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    Thanks Bobo
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    Originally posted by Jergo
    John, some questions for you. That liver thing caught my eye. How would you go about preparing it; as in a more of a convenience meal? Also, the liver tabs, you are saying that I can take those during workout or just throughtout the day? BCAA's during? IOW, whats the difference between Beverly BCAA's and UNi liver tabs?
    I cook calve's liver in a pan with just water and lots of onions. Taste would be a lot better with oil.

    I take 4-6 Beverly Ultra-40 liver tabs with each meal. About 12-15 with my pre-workout meal. Beverly Ultra-40 contain over twice as much concentrated liver per tab as Uniliver.

    BCAA's are not the same as liver tabs, and although dessicated liver contains some BCAA's, they cannot take the place of hydrolyzed BCAA tabs, which begin to break down and be assimilated AS SOON as they hit the stomach. Liver tabs take a while to digest, and should not be used DURING the workout. I have not tried ICE, but Beverly MUSCLE MASS BCAA tabs are absolute top of the line. Compare price and amount of the 3 Branched Chain Aninos in each and take your pick. I'm sure ICE works fine. Hope this helps.
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    Originally posted by Bobo
    Ken was an idiot


    But we won't get into that John...
    Ken was one of the few on the old board that could handily put you in your place in any debate. Still feeling the bitterness of defeat, my friend?
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    LMAO!!! Yeah I remember the one about insulin sensitivity that he "put me in my place". If I remember correctly he said N-Large 2 was a great product and not that bad for you.


    Damn I needed that laugh today John.
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    Sweet, thanks JB, got it straight now.
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    Originally posted by Bobo
    LMAO!!! Yeah I remember the one about insulin sensitivity that he "put me in my place". If I remember correctly he said N-Large 2 was a great product and not that bad for you.


    Damn I needed that laugh today John.
    I remember his take on weight gainers being similar to yours and mine. Here are a couple of his comments in regards to them. I have included the url to thread so you can check for yourself.

    My own weight gainer..good or bad??
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=78564
    Originally posted by shazvmodel Me being a student and not able to afford weight gainers every other week.
    I've noticed that many weight gainers contain the same ingredients i.e maltodextrin and whey protien..these are the main ones.

    if i was to purchase these separately and add for eg 60g malto and 30 protien or what ever wouldn't that just be as good weight gainer as the higher priced brands??

    i know usually when they claim to add some sort of extra special formula usually its bull****..so what u saying??
    Originally posted by K (same)
    Scratch malto unless for workout. Use oatmeal instead.
    what do u think of this weight gainer?
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...0&pagenumber=1
    Originally posted by K (same)
    no, but adding oatmeal to get the carb , would be far too complicated . lol
    The thread you are remembering is the one where you guys went back and forth on high G.I. vs. low G.I. post-workout. After a few pages I feel he got the best of you and J-Rod together. I have come to agree with you on the whole low. g.i. carb issue, but the majority out there are still not convinced. Ken was certainly more convincing on that thread.
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    Oh God give me a break. Get the best of me? He didn't know what the Insulin Index was John. Stop taking things out of context John because there is a post in that thread where he claims the only way to go post workout is GLUCOSE GLUCOSE GLUCOSE!!! He said Oatmeal and/or Fructose was inadequate in causing a significant insulin spike but forgot to aco**** for the increased insulin sensitivity post workout not to mention the increase in aminos causes the increase in rate of synthesis. He asked me to back it up and I did. Where did he ever back up anything except for opinion? He was a complete fraud and just repeated what everyone else said (like your other big friend) without the cut and paste.

    BTW- His recommendation for using oatmeal were from where J-ROD and ME recommened on the old board (after I was handed my ass by J-rod). So thinking K was some originator is laughable. He criticized me and anythone else that recommened lower GI post workout and then would flame anyone for not understanding nutrition. Telling Joey he doesn't understand nutrition was the biggest joke I've ever seen. It made him look even more foolish than he already was.

    So now I'm told he got the best of me when everytone is that original thread (Dio, Ripped, You, etc...) is using a lower GI source. Yeah, now I get it. I was right all along but he got the best of me. He's a fraud.
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    Originally posted by John Benz

    I have come to agree with you on the whole low. g.i. carb issue, but the majority out there are still not convinced. Ken was certainly more convincing on that thread.
    The majority of people also use Cell Tech. He didn't convince ****. He repeated what everyone else was saying withouth backing up anything.

    High GI post workout. If you choose Low GI you don't understand Nutrition and your an idiot. Thats K's opinion.

    Do me a favor John and go find him and bring him here and we can have it out all over again and I will rip him a new *******.
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    Originally posted by Bobo
    Do me a favor John and go find him and bring him here and we can have it out all over again and I will rip him a new *******.
    Bobo, you and K had a history long before that thread. I would love to get him back on here just to watch the sparks fly, but he's had a lot of the steam taken out of him by tragedies in his personal life and says he may never post on a message board again.
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    He didn't understand a thing he was saying. He had NO clue what he was talking about. Its like me saying YJ got the better of you in an argument. Its insulting.

    The difference between me and him is that I researched further into the matter and he just spouted out what others said and flamed anyone who disagreed. Kind of like somebody else we know.


    "LMAO!! Man!! DUH !!! DOUBLE DUH!!!!! What kind of insanity is this???????? LMAO"

    Great example of the genius K and his brilliant thought.


    Serisouly I laughed my ass off when he said Joey didn't understand nutrition. I'm chuckling now when I tihnk about it.
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    Bobo, I'm just messin' with ya, my friend. I don't think anyone ever got the best of you in a nutritional debate, especially about Low vs. High G.I. carbs.

    K (same) was brilliant, but in that debate you and J-Rod were correct on all points. Still it was a fun thread, and I just read it again. I did not know who J-Rod was at the time, and I doubt if Dio or Blacksmith did either.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...0&pagenumber=1
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    Hey John first off good to see you here. How did you manage to eat that much liver w/out being grossed out, that takes dedication I just can't eat liver.

    BTW Blaze, I'll also vouch for BCAA's & Creatine, very underrated IMO. Made awesome gains in High School taking in 20 grams of BCAA's daily & Creatine w/loading phase and than 5 grams a day.
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    BCAA's added, along w/ beverly liver tabs.
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    man, my thread blew up! =D
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    Originally posted by wardog
    What is this natural thing you speak of???

    I will be interested to see how this goes for you bro.
    LoL believe me i hate it, but androgens don't mix w/ my body unfortunately so this is the only option. I thought if i just kept my cycles short i'd be okay, but i'm still having problems w/ my body's reactions for short cycles, so it's a no go.
  26. PC1
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    Originally posted by JonBlaze639


    LoL believe me i hate it, but androgens don't mix w/ my body unfortunately so this is the only option. I thought if i just kept my cycles short i'd be okay, but i'm still having problems w/ my body's reactions for short cycles, so it's a no go.
    Hey Jon, just curious, what problems (or negative reactions) do you experience?
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    Originally posted by PC1


    Hey Jon, just curious, what problems (or negative reactions) do you experience?
    This happened both on roids and Ph's, taken from the MOD forum from 2 months ago so its a bit outdated.....


    So it was Sunday morning, My g/f was out visiting me in santa barbara. It was about 10 oclock and she kept trying to wake me up, but me worn out from the night before of having cialis wanted to sleep. So i told her to just go and eat breakfast and wake me up when she was done. So she comes in and gets me and i throw on some pants chew my IP winny, pop a few r-ala, and down it w/ a v12 mixed in milk and we head out to state street. Basically state street is an outdoor mall, about 2 miles long just lined with stores.

    So we walk around for a good 30 min and i start feeling dizzy as hell, so i'm like hey we gotta sit down, i'm feelin like ****. So we sit down for a good 15-20 min, and i start feeling SLIGHTLY better, and i'm like "i'm starved, lets go back home and find something to eat, i feel like total ****" So we start walking back and i make it a good maybe 15 steps then i start to get all dizzy and start losing my balance so i tell my girlfriend "hey we need to find a spot to sit, hold on to me, i can't walk straight" and next thing i know i wake up in the ER room =(

    apparently i had passed out, and they had run all kinds of tests on me. Everything came back normal except my blood sugar level, normal range was 75 to 120, i had come back as a 29 so they gave me a glucose shot, and when i woke up i was at a 63. The released me about 2 hours after i woke up and said i needed to go home and rest and eat some food. Told me no meds were required but i needed to come off of any drugs i was on.

    I'm totally fine now, my girlfriend is still scared half to death. So anyways i've been reading about this stuff, and obviously it was real stupid of me not to have eaten anything that morning, but then i began to think about my other cycles i had been on when i had come off because i started constantly feeling dizzy and had blurred vision etc etc. Usually this started happening every single time it came around week 8 or 9 of a cycle for my last 4 cycles so i'd always come off. As a lot of you know i had recently adopted 3-4 weekers for good because of these problems i experienced w/ the longer cycles. As i researched low blood sugar symptoms further, i found out that these were the exact symptoms i'd have every cycle which included:

    -Sweating (almost always present). Check for sweating on the back of your neck at your hairline.
    -Nervousness, shakiness, and weakness.
    -Extreme hunger and slight nausea.
    -Dizziness and headache.
    -Blurred vision.
    -A fast heartbeat and feeling anxious.

    I realized that on every single one of my last 3-4 cycles prior to this one which i had ended around week 8-10 i had started experiencing every single one of those symptoms, but this past cycle i only made 3 weeks, that day i went to the hospital was actually my last day on cycle. Now i know this has partly due to the fact low blood sugar is caused by not eating enough, exercizing more freq, etc which seems to be the cause here, but i noticed that these symptoms always happened when i was on cycle, and only when i was on cycle.

    Never did slin, but i know R-ALA causes blood sugar levels to decrease. Also may have been caused by the v12 shake? As i was researching this stuck out to me "Sugar is very rapidly absorbed into the blood stream. This rapid rise in the sugar level results in the over-secretion of insulin by the pancreas. The responsibility of insulin is to decrease the blood sugar level when it is too high. An over-secretion of insulin brings the sugar level down too fast and too low. Excess insulin also robs glucose from tissues, such as the brain, resulting in any of the numerous symptoms associated with low blood sugar, or hypoglycemia." And we all know how much sugar v12 has.

    I haven't even begun to research if anti-e's or anything like that would have any sort of effect, but i read a few places which said winny could also lower blood sugar levels, but nothing too concrete looked more like warning labels.
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    JB, thats sux bro. So your basically saying that since you didn't really eat much directly after you dosed your R-ALA, your body went into Hypo?

    And that combined with the gear you were using increases insulin even more, right?

    So, why not just use gear w/o the R-ALA since your body seems like it is ultra sensitive to low blood sugar. Am I way off here or somewhat close? I'm not suggesting anything of course, but as a general statement, one could do it that way couldn't he?
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    Hey Blaze sucks to hear that bro, stay strong. You may not need to use BCAA & Liver Tabs together because the Liver Tabs are real high in BCAA's plus they give more vitamins & minerals. I've used liver tabs before but I switched to BCAA because the liver tabs gave me insane amounts of gas.
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    Originally posted by Iron Warrior
    Hey Blaze sucks to hear that bro, stay strong. You may not need to use BCAA & Liver Tabs together because the Liver Tabs are real high in BCAA's plus they give more vitamins & minerals. I've used liver tabs before but I switched to BCAA because the liver tabs gave me insane amounts of gas.
    Like I said, liver tabs cannot replace BCAA's. They may replace the B-complex tabs, but there is only a fraction of the minerals provided by a ZMA supp, and the vitamins provided are nowhere near as complete nor as balanced as what is provided in a good multi-vitamin. Same with aminos. Whether using complete amino acid complex tabs or simply BCAA's, the absorption rate of liver is far slower and can in no way be compared to Branched Chain Aminos in the form of casein hydrosylates. When these Branched Chain Aminos are needed quickly, as in preventing tissue breakdown throughout the workout, liver tabs can't get the job done.

    Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. Dessicated liver can be used by anyone and should be taken as a food supplement with every meal, for strength, endurance and other benefits.

    BCAA are very expensive, and the only time the cost justifies the rewards is immediately prior to, and all throughout the workout to prevent catabolism at this crucial time. If you goof around in the gym and your workouts are not truly intense, they are a waste of money. But for the serious trainer, BCAA's and dessicated liver are the 2 most essential training aids available, more important than either creatine or glutamine in adding permament lean-mass gains. And remember, I am a big Glutamine fan.
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    Originally posted by Jergo
    JB, thats sux bro. So your basically saying that since you didn't really eat much directly after you dosed your R-ALA, your body went into Hypo?

    And that combined with the gear you were using increases insulin even more, right?

    So, why not just use gear w/o the R-ALA since your body seems like it is ultra sensitive to low blood sugar. Am I way off here or somewhat close? I'm not suggesting anything of course, but as a general statement, one could do it that way couldn't he?
    basically if i went under 20 on my blood sugar level the doctor said i was as good as dead. He said i was lucky i didn't go into a coma. My life isn't worth a few lbs of muscle. Plus for all i know this may not even have been the cause, i don't know EXACTLY what caused it all i know is any time i use PH's or roids somewhere down the cycle i start feeling dizzy, light headed and everything starts spinning, i feel it's in my best interest just to stay away.
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    I feel you on that man.....good move. I have a family history (somewhat) of diabetes that I actually just found out about, just another incentive for me to quit as well.
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    -Sports ONE GP2 Glutamine Peptides
    -VPX Methoxygen
    -SAN Loaded (post workout)
    -CLA (Tonalin/Thinfat VPX)
  34. Doctor Science
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    and please dont buy straight zma.. just go to the store and buy the ingredients separately.. youll save sooo much money.. you prolly already know that though.
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    Originally posted by LakeMountD
    and please dont buy straight zma.. just go to the store and buy the ingredients separately.. youll save sooo much money.. you prolly already know that though.
    no i did not, thank you

    Heh, got my zinc right here!
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    It took a while, but last spring I found both zinc and magnesium without calcium. I'm using Source Naturals Opti-Zinc and Twinlab's Magnesium.

    Never found the B6 calcium free and I can't sleep after taking a combo b vitamin so I've given up on the B6.

    ~Todd
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    You should get an electronic blood glucose monitor while you're picking up all these supps.
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    Originally posted by ex_banana-eater
    You should get an electronic blood glucose monitor while you're picking up all these supps.
    Are you talkin' about the ones that prick your finger; the ones that diabetics use now? How much they go for?

    I picked up a digital blood pressure monitor for like 30 bucks before, it works pretty good. I just had to buy a bogger sleeve for it. I'd reccomend everyone get one of those to.
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    Theyre under 50$ from my understanding.

    Example prices: http://www.zooscape.com/cgi-bin/mait...n/questc100492
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    thx bro, looks descent, might pick one up.
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