Looking to go fully natty......

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  1. Looking to go fully natty......


    Not gonna use Ph's or Roids anymore, fully natural. After saving A TON of money since i'm not doing anymore cycles, i got some money to put towards supps.

    Using the following products, looking mainly to bulk a bit, maybe add some lean lean muscle.

    V-12
    100% whey
    ZMA
    Flax oil
    Multi vitamin
    muscle milk before bed

    Can't think of anything. Anything else you think i should toss in there? I'm open to all suggestions, price is not an issue


  2. Dont take muscle milk before bed- I just dont trust how much carbs is in that stuff tastes to good

    I have been drinking muscle provider with some natural peanut butter before bed and it works great. If I dont wake up in the midddle of the night hungry I know its working
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  3. muscle milk has been dropped, and muscle provider has been added.

    Also throw in Power train to the list.

  4. Hey bro, this is the same thing I'm contemplating. Since I ccan't eve n use 1-test anymore, I don't think the other PH's are really worth it IMO.

    Try adding a good natty test optimizer. I posted the question a while back, but still haven't gotten around to finding which one is best. Maybe use a cortisol suppresent, extra calcium--no doubt. I just bought a box of some bars, incase of some inconvenience at work/school. I use some R-ALA, etc. I think it would be great to try and get more anabolism through amino acids, etc. Maybe get some arginine and take it w/ your v-12.

    There's a lot of things I can think of, I'll post more tommorow, gotta get up early.

  5. Muscle Provider is expensive though but lots of bro's here love it. In fact I bought because of the stuff I read here. San Infusion is a good nighttime protien also just the taste gets old before u use up the jug
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  6. Jon, If money is no object, go with all Beverly supps. Ultra-Size, 100% Egg, and Muscle Provider are their best proteins, but the best before bed is Optimum Complete Protein Diet. Beverly says their 100% Egg blended with Muscle Provider makes the most anabolic protein blend on the planet. Check the amino acid balance and you will agree. 50 gms of this would be a great post-workout shake. Optimum Pro-Complex is more whey and less casein, and has TOO MANY added vitamins so I avoid it.

    The 2 most anabolic whole foods are WHOLE eggs and liver. Ken K (same) once told me he ate 1 lb cooked beef liver daily for 2 weeks straight and felt like he was doing a tren cycle. The high cholesterol issue is outdated and invalid. I will explain on the phone or aim. I ate 12 or more whole eggs daily for years and made my best gains ever during this time. 26 years old then. My cholesterol has never been overly high.

    Make sure you eat a whole food protein/carb meal an hour or more prior to your workout to provide a positive nitrogen balance all through that period. Take 4 Beverly Muscle Mass BCAA tabs prior to your workout and 4 every 10 minutes or so throughout for a total of about 32 to help stave off catabolism. These are the aminos the body runs short of during an intense workout and will cannabilize lean tissue to obtain. You will notice a decreased muscle soreness the next day if you take enough. Also the combo of BCAA and pre-workout meal diminishes the need for an ultra-high dextrose spike post-workout. Add oats instead.

    I take 25-35 Beverly Ultra-40 liver tabs daily and about a dozen with my pre-workout meal. These are very important for a nattie, especial for the anti-fatigue enzyme p-450. Eat lots of salmon. Sockeye is the best, both in terms of protein quality and omega oils. Take 5 tbs Flax oil daily to prevent joint problems.

    Add HMB to your V-12 for an additive effect. HMB does little by itself. Works great with creatine. Several studies back this up. Hope this helps. Probably little here you didn't already know. Talk to you soon, my friend.

  7. What is this natural thing you speak of???

    I will be interested to see how this goes for you bro.

  8. John, some questions for you. That liver thing caught my eye. How would you go about preparing it; as in a more of a convenience meal? Also, the liver tabs, you are saying that I can take those during workout or just throughtout the day? BCAA's during? IOW, whats the difference between Beverly BCAA's and UNi liver tabs?

    What if I could get a really good deal on some HMB, and say I could take like 4 grams or so/day, beneficial?


    Johnblaze, I'd also get some B12. I'm also gonna get some 5-htp tommorrow as it works pretty descent for me.

  9. Vendetta and/or ICE
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  10. Originally posted by John Benz
    Ken K (same) once told me he ate 1 lb cooked beef liver daily for 2 weeks straight and felt like he was doing a tren cycle.
    Ken was an idiot


    But we won't get into that John...
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  11. Thanks Bobo

  12. Originally posted by Jergo
    John, some questions for you. That liver thing caught my eye. How would you go about preparing it; as in a more of a convenience meal? Also, the liver tabs, you are saying that I can take those during workout or just throughtout the day? BCAA's during? IOW, whats the difference between Beverly BCAA's and UNi liver tabs?
    I cook calve's liver in a pan with just water and lots of onions. Taste would be a lot better with oil.

    I take 4-6 Beverly Ultra-40 liver tabs with each meal. About 12-15 with my pre-workout meal. Beverly Ultra-40 contain over twice as much concentrated liver per tab as Uniliver.

    BCAA's are not the same as liver tabs, and although dessicated liver contains some BCAA's, they cannot take the place of hydrolyzed BCAA tabs, which begin to break down and be assimilated AS SOON as they hit the stomach. Liver tabs take a while to digest, and should not be used DURING the workout. I have not tried ICE, but Beverly MUSCLE MASS BCAA tabs are absolute top of the line. Compare price and amount of the 3 Branched Chain Aninos in each and take your pick. I'm sure ICE works fine. Hope this helps.

  13. Originally posted by Bobo
    Ken was an idiot


    But we won't get into that John...
    Ken was one of the few on the old board that could handily put you in your place in any debate. Still feeling the bitterness of defeat, my friend?

  14. LMAO!!! Yeah I remember the one about insulin sensitivity that he "put me in my place". If I remember correctly he said N-Large 2 was a great product and not that bad for you.


    Damn I needed that laugh today John.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  15. Sweet, thanks JB, got it straight now.

  16. Originally posted by Bobo
    LMAO!!! Yeah I remember the one about insulin sensitivity that he "put me in my place". If I remember correctly he said N-Large 2 was a great product and not that bad for you.


    Damn I needed that laugh today John.
    I remember his take on weight gainers being similar to yours and mine. Here are a couple of his comments in regards to them. I have included the url to thread so you can check for yourself.

    My own weight gainer..good or bad??
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...thread****78564
    Originally posted by shazvmodel Me being a student and not able to afford weight gainers every other week.
    I've noticed that many weight gainers contain the same ingredients i.e maltodextrin and whey protien..these are the main ones.

    if i was to purchase these separately and add for eg 60g malto and 30 protien or what ever wouldn't that just be as good weight gainer as the higher priced brands??

    i know usually when they claim to add some sort of extra special formula usually its bull****..so what u saying??
    Originally posted by K (same)
    Scratch malto unless for workout. Use oatmeal instead.
    what do u think of this weight gainer?
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...0&pagenumber=1
    Originally posted by K (same)
    no, but adding oatmeal to get the carb , would be far too complicated . lol
    The thread you are remembering is the one where you guys went back and forth on high G.I. vs. low G.I. post-workout. After a few pages I feel he got the best of you and J-Rod together. I have come to agree with you on the whole low. g.i. carb issue, but the majority out there are still not convinced. Ken was certainly more convincing on that thread.

  17. Oh God give me a break. Get the best of me? He didn't know what the Insulin Index was John. Stop taking things out of context John because there is a post in that thread where he claims the only way to go post workout is GLUCOSE GLUCOSE GLUCOSE!!! He said Oatmeal and/or Fructose was inadequate in causing a significant insulin spike but forgot to aco**** for the increased insulin sensitivity post workout not to mention the increase in aminos causes the increase in rate of synthesis. He asked me to back it up and I did. Where did he ever back up anything except for opinion? He was a complete fraud and just repeated what everyone else said (like your other big friend) without the cut and paste.

    BTW- His recommendation for using oatmeal were from where J-ROD and ME recommened on the old board (after I was handed my ass by J-rod). So thinking K was some originator is laughable. He criticized me and anythone else that recommened lower GI post workout and then would flame anyone for not understanding nutrition. Telling Joey he doesn't understand nutrition was the biggest joke I've ever seen. It made him look even more foolish than he already was.

    So now I'm told he got the best of me when everytone is that original thread (Dio, Ripped, You, etc...) is using a lower GI source. Yeah, now I get it. I was right all along but he got the best of me. He's a fraud.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  18. Originally posted by John Benz

    I have come to agree with you on the whole low. g.i. carb issue, but the majority out there are still not convinced. Ken was certainly more convincing on that thread.
    The majority of people also use Cell Tech. He didn't convince ****. He repeated what everyone else was saying withouth backing up anything.

    High GI post workout. If you choose Low GI you don't understand Nutrition and your an idiot. Thats K's opinion.

    Do me a favor John and go find him and bring him here and we can have it out all over again and I will rip him a new *******.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  19. Originally posted by Bobo
    Do me a favor John and go find him and bring him here and we can have it out all over again and I will rip him a new *******.
    Bobo, you and K had a history long before that thread. I would love to get him back on here just to watch the sparks fly, but he's had a lot of the steam taken out of him by tragedies in his personal life and says he may never post on a message board again.

  20. He didn't understand a thing he was saying. He had NO clue what he was talking about. Its like me saying YJ got the better of you in an argument. Its insulting.

    The difference between me and him is that I researched further into the matter and he just spouted out what others said and flamed anyone who disagreed. Kind of like somebody else we know.


    "LMAO!! Man!! DUH !!! DOUBLE DUH!!!!! What kind of insanity is this???????? LMAO"

    Great example of the genius K and his brilliant thought.


    Serisouly I laughed my ass off when he said Joey didn't understand nutrition. I'm chuckling now when I tihnk about it.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  21. Bobo, I'm just messin' with ya, my friend. I don't think anyone ever got the best of you in a nutritional debate, especially about Low vs. High G.I. carbs.

    K (same) was brilliant, but in that debate you and J-Rod were correct on all points. Still it was a fun thread, and I just read it again. I did not know who J-Rod was at the time, and I doubt if Dio or Blacksmith did either.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...0&pagenumber=1

  22. Hey John first off good to see you here. How did you manage to eat that much liver w/out being grossed out, that takes dedication I just can't eat liver.

    BTW Blaze, I'll also vouch for BCAA's & Creatine, very underrated IMO. Made awesome gains in High School taking in 20 grams of BCAA's daily & Creatine w/loading phase and than 5 grams a day.

  23. BCAA's added, along w/ beverly liver tabs.

  24. man, my thread blew up! =D

  25. Originally posted by wardog
    What is this natural thing you speak of???

    I will be interested to see how this goes for you bro.
    LoL believe me i hate it, but androgens don't mix w/ my body unfortunately so this is the only option. I thought if i just kept my cycles short i'd be okay, but i'm still having problems w/ my body's reactions for short cycles, so it's a no go.
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