Looking to go fully natty......

[John Benz]

Bobo, I'm just messin' with ya, my friend. I don't think anyone ever got the best of you in a nutritional debate, especially about Low vs. High G.I. carbs.

K (same) was brilliant, but in that debate you and J-Rod were correct on all points. Still it was a fun thread, and I just read it again. I did not know who J-Rod was at the time, and I doubt if Dio or Blacksmith did either.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...0&pagenumber=1

[Iron Warrior]

Hey John first off good to see you here. How did you manage to eat that much liver w/out being grossed out, that takes dedication I just can't eat liver.

BTW Blaze, I'll also vouch for BCAA's & Creatine, very underrated IMO. Made awesome gains in High School taking in 20 grams of BCAA's daily & Creatine w/loading phase and than 5 grams a day.

[JBlaze]

BCAA's added, along w/ beverly liver tabs.

[JBlaze]

man, my thread blew up! =D

[JBlaze]

Originally posted by wardog
What is this natural thing you speak of???

I will be interested to see how this goes for you bro.

LoL believe me i hate it, but androgens don't mix w/ my body unfortunately so this is the only option. I thought if i just kept my cycles short i'd be okay, but i'm still having problems w/ my body's reactions for short cycles, so it's a no go.

[PC1]

Originally posted by JonBlaze639


LoL believe me i hate it, but androgens don't mix w/ my body unfortunately so this is the only option. I thought if i just kept my cycles short i'd be okay, but i'm still having problems w/ my body's reactions for short cycles, so it's a no go.

Hey Jon, just curious, what problems (or negative reactions) do you experience?

[JBlaze]

Originally posted by PC1


Hey Jon, just curious, what problems (or negative reactions) do you experience?

This happened both on roids and Ph's, taken from the MOD forum from 2 months ago so its a bit outdated.....


So it was Sunday morning, My g/f was out visiting me in santa barbara. It was about 10 oclock and she kept trying to wake me up, but me worn out from the night before of having cialis wanted to sleep. So i told her to just go and eat breakfast and wake me up when she was done. So she comes in and gets me and i throw on some pants chew my IP winny, pop a few r-ala, and down it w/ a v12 mixed in milk and we head out to state street. Basically state street is an outdoor mall, about 2 miles long just lined with stores.

So we walk around for a good 30 min and i start feeling dizzy as hell, so i'm like hey we gotta sit down, i'm feelin like ****. So we sit down for a good 15-20 min, and i start feeling SLIGHTLY better, and i'm like "i'm starved, lets go back home and find something to eat, i feel like total ****" So we start walking back and i make it a good maybe 15 steps then i start to get all dizzy and start losing my balance so i tell my girlfriend "hey we need to find a spot to sit, hold on to me, i can't walk straight" and next thing i know i wake up in the ER room =(

apparently i had passed out, and they had run all kinds of tests on me. Everything came back normal except my blood sugar level, normal range was 75 to 120, i had come back as a 29 so they gave me a glucose shot, and when i woke up i was at a 63. The released me about 2 hours after i woke up and said i needed to go home and rest and eat some food. Told me no meds were required but i needed to come off of any drugs i was on.

I'm totally fine now, my girlfriend is still scared half to death. So anyways i've been reading about this stuff, and obviously it was real stupid of me not to have eaten anything that morning, but then i began to think about my other cycles i had been on when i had come off because i started constantly feeling dizzy and had blurred vision etc etc. Usually this started happening every single time it came around week 8 or 9 of a cycle for my last 4 cycles so i'd always come off. As a lot of you know i had recently adopted 3-4 weekers for good because of these problems i experienced w/ the longer cycles. As i researched low blood sugar symptoms further, i found out that these were the exact symptoms i'd have every cycle which included:

-Sweating (almost always present). Check for sweating on the back of your neck at your hairline.
-Nervousness, shakiness, and weakness.
-Extreme hunger and slight nausea.
-Dizziness and headache.
-Blurred vision.
-A fast heartbeat and feeling anxious.

I realized that on every single one of my last 3-4 cycles prior to this one which i had ended around week 8-10 i had started experiencing every single one of those symptoms, but this past cycle i only made 3 weeks, that day i went to the hospital was actually my last day on cycle. Now i know this has partly due to the fact low blood sugar is caused by not eating enough, exercizing more freq, etc which seems to be the cause here, but i noticed that these symptoms always happened when i was on cycle, and only when i was on cycle.

Never did slin, but i know R-ALA causes blood sugar levels to decrease. Also may have been caused by the v12 shake? As i was researching this stuck out to me "Sugar is very rapidly absorbed into the blood stream. This rapid rise in the sugar level results in the over-secretion of insulin by the pancreas. The responsibility of insulin is to decrease the blood sugar level when it is too high. An over-secretion of insulin brings the sugar level down too fast and too low. Excess insulin also robs glucose from tissues, such as the brain, resulting in any of the numerous symptoms associated with low blood sugar, or hypoglycemia." And we all know how much sugar v12 has.

I haven't even begun to research if anti-e's or anything like that would have any sort of effect, but i read a few places which said winny could also lower blood sugar levels, but nothing too concrete looked more like warning labels.

[Jergo]

JB, thats sux bro. So your basically saying that since you didn't really eat much directly after you dosed your R-ALA, your body went into Hypo?

And that combined with the gear you were using increases insulin even more, right?

So, why not just use gear w/o the R-ALA since your body seems like it is ultra sensitive to low blood sugar. Am I way off here or somewhat close? I'm not suggesting anything of course, but as a general statement, one could do it that way couldn't he?

[Iron Warrior]

Hey Blaze sucks to hear that bro, stay strong. You may not need to use BCAA & Liver Tabs together because the Liver Tabs are real high in BCAA's plus they give more vitamins & minerals. I've used liver tabs before but I switched to BCAA because the liver tabs gave me insane amounts of gas.

[John Benz]

Originally posted by Iron Warrior
Hey Blaze sucks to hear that bro, stay strong. You may not need to use BCAA & Liver Tabs together because the Liver Tabs are real high in BCAA's plus they give more vitamins & minerals. I've used liver tabs before but I switched to BCAA because the liver tabs gave me insane amounts of gas.

Like I said, liver tabs cannot replace BCAA's. They may replace the B-complex tabs, but there is only a fraction of the minerals provided by a ZMA supp, and the vitamins provided are nowhere near as complete nor as balanced as what is provided in a good multi-vitamin. Same with aminos. Whether using complete amino acid complex tabs or simply BCAA's, the absorption rate of liver is far slower and can in no way be compared to Branched Chain Aminos in the form of casein hydrosylates. When these Branched Chain Aminos are needed quickly, as in preventing tissue breakdown throughout the workout, liver tabs can't get the job done.

Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. Dessicated liver can be used by anyone and should be taken as a food supplement with every meal, for strength, endurance and other benefits.

BCAA are very expensive, and the only time the cost justifies the rewards is immediately prior to, and all throughout the workout to prevent catabolism at this crucial time. If you goof around in the gym and your workouts are not truly intense, they are a waste of money. But for the serious trainer, BCAA's and dessicated liver are the 2 most essential training aids available, more important than either creatine or glutamine in adding permament lean-mass gains. And remember, I am a big Glutamine fan.

[JBlaze]

Originally posted by Jergo
JB, thats sux bro. So your basically saying that since you didn't really eat much directly after you dosed your R-ALA, your body went into Hypo?

And that combined with the gear you were using increases insulin even more, right?

So, why not just use gear w/o the R-ALA since your body seems like it is ultra sensitive to low blood sugar. Am I way off here or somewhat close? I'm not suggesting anything of course, but as a general statement, one could do it that way couldn't he?

basically if i went under 20 on my blood sugar level the doctor said i was as good as dead. He said i was lucky i didn't go into a coma. My life isn't worth a few lbs of muscle. Plus for all i know this may not even have been the cause, i don't know EXACTLY what caused it all i know is any time i use PH's or roids somewhere down the cycle i start feeling dizzy, light headed and everything starts spinning, i feel it's in my best interest just to stay away.

[Jergo]

I feel you on that man.....good move. I have a family history (somewhat) of diabetes that I actually just found out about, just another incentive for me to quit as well.

[Body FX]

-Sports ONE GP2 Glutamine Peptides
-VPX Methoxygen
-SAN Loaded (post workout)
-CLA (Tonalin/Thinfat VPX)

[LakeMountD]

and please dont buy straight zma.. just go to the store and buy the ingredients separately.. youll save sooo much money.. you prolly already know that though.

[JBlaze]

Originally posted by LakeMountD
and please dont buy straight zma.. just go to the store and buy the ingredients separately.. youll save sooo much money.. you prolly already know that though.

no i did not, thank you

Heh, got my zinc right here!

[tatortodd]

It took a while, but last spring I found both zinc and magnesium without calcium. I'm using Source Naturals Opti-Zinc and Twinlab's Magnesium.

Never found the B6 calcium free and I can't sleep after taking a combo b vitamin so I've given up on the B6.

~Todd

[ex_banana-eater]

You should get an electronic blood glucose monitor while you're picking up all these supps.

[Jergo]

Originally posted by ex_banana-eater
You should get an electronic blood glucose monitor while you're picking up all these supps.

Are you talkin' about the ones that prick your finger; the ones that diabetics use now? How much they go for?

I picked up a digital blood pressure monitor for like 30 bucks before, it works pretty good. I just had to buy a bogger sleeve for it. I'd reccomend everyone get one of those to.

[ex_banana-eater]

Theyre under 50$ from my understanding.

Example prices: http://www.zooscape.com/cgi-bin/mait...n/questc100492

[Jergo]

thx bro, looks descent, might pick one up.