Trying to figure out what exactly is in P-slin and Anabolic Pump

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    Trying to figure out what exactly is in P-slin and Anabolic Pump


    I am picking up some P-slin and Anabolic Pump tonight. I plan on starting it as soon as I get it. But i was trying to figure out exactly what was in these supplements. I have figured out that:

    Pslin:

    500mg Complex
    Lagerstroemia speciosa
    Gymnema Sylvestre

    Anabolic Pump
    Lagerstroemia speciosa
    Phellodendron amurense

    phellodendron amurense is just a COX-2 enzyme like Glucos&Chond. Kinda weird how its used in there.

    Lagerstroemia speciosa is also known as Banaba. I wonder how pure the Banaba is in both of them? And also, I wonder how much (mg) of each are in each of the supplements.

    Pslin is 500mg, and AP is 750mg. My guess would be 250mg of Lagerstroemia speciosa in both, probably around 20% purity, and 250 of GS in P-slin, and 500mg Phell in AP.

    Anyone with knowledge on these have any input?

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    Also, if this is all thats in these two supplements, what makes them so different? the Phell or the GS? ie. What make p-slin so much better for preworkout? Also, i read in a study that bitter melon extract act almost identical to insulin in the body.

    Idk...just trying to throw some ideas out there for my fellow researchers.
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    I have no idea. I do know that different extracts and percentages used can be like night and day.

    Case in point: The nettle root extract in activate > bulk nettle root.
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    exactly...all of the ingredients in both of these can be found with the right connections to raw bulk vitamin/mineral/supplement powders.
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    I also have found that 45-55% pure tannic acid is in both of them...now just trying to find out how all of this fits together...and then we could all make our own AP and P-slin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    I also have found that 45-55% pure tannic acid is in both of them...now just trying to find out how all of this fits together...and then we could all make our own AP and P-slin.
    lmao i dont think that would make jacob very happy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    exactly...all of the ingredients in both of these can be found with the right connections to raw bulk vitamin/mineral/supplement powders.
    No, Cryingemo was alluding to the product ActivaTE being vastly superior to bulk Nettle Root.

    Chinese Phellodendron Plant - along with many other indigenous Chinese plants - contains Berberine which exhibits anti-diabetic activity via AMPk activation:

    Berberine, a Natural Plant Product, Activates AMP-Activated Protein Kinase With Beneficial Metabolic Effects in Diabetic and Insulin-Resistant States

    Yun S. Lee1Berberine has been shown to have antidiabetic properties, although its mode of action is not known. Here, we have investigated the metabolic effects of berberine in two animal models of insulin resistance and in insulin-responsive cell lines. Berberine reduced body weight and caused a significant improvement in glucose tolerance without altering food intake in db/db mice. Similarly, berberine reduced body weight and plasma triglycerides and improved insulin action in high-fat–fed Wistar rats. Berberine downregulated the expression of genes involved in lipogenesis and upregulated those involved in energy expenditure in adipose tissue and muscle. Berberine treatment resulted in increased AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) activity in 3T3-L1 adipocytes and L6 myotubes, increased GLUT4 translocation in L6 cells in a phosphatidylinositol 3' kinase–independent manner, and reduced lipid accumulation in 3T3-L1 adipocytes. These findings suggest that berberine displays beneficial effects in the treatment of diabetes and obesity at least in part via stimulation of AMPK activity.
    Berberine-stimulated glucose uptake in L6 myotubes involves both AMPK and p38 MAPK

    Zhe Cheng, Tao Pang, Min Gu, An-Hui Gao, Chuan-Ming Xie, Jing-Ya Li, Fa-Jun Nan and Jia Li

    National Center for Drug Screening, Shanghai Institute of Materia Medica, Shanghai Institutes for Biological Sciences, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Shanghai 201203, P. R. China


    Received 17 May 2006; revised 13 September 2006; accepted 13 September 2006. Available online 20 September 2006.

    Abstract

    Berberine is a plant alkaloid used in traditional Chinese medicine and has been reported to have antihyperglycemic activity in NIDDM patients. However, the molecular basis for this action is yet to be elucidated. Here we investigate the effects and signaling pathways of berberine on L6 rat skeletal muscles. Our study demonstrates that berberine stimulates glucose uptake in a time- and dose-dependent manner. Intriguingly, berberine-stimulated glucose uptake does not vary as insulin concentration increases, and could not be blocked by the PI 3-kinase inhibitor wortmannin. Berberine only weakly stimulates the phosphorylation of Akt/PKB, a key molecule in the insulin signaling pathway, but strongly promotes the phosphorylation of AMPK and p38 MAPK. The effects of berberine are not a result of pro-oxidant action, but a consequence of an increased cellular AMP:ATP ratio. Moreover, berberine-stimulated glucose uptake is inhibited by the AMPK inhibitor Compound C and the p38 MAPK inhibitor SB202190. Inhibition of AMPK reduces p38 MAPK phosphorylation, suggesting that AMPK lies upstream of p38 MAPK. These results suggest that berberine circumvents insulin signaling pathways and stimulates glucose uptake through the AMP-AMPK-p38 MAPK pathway, which may account for the antihyperglycemic effects of this drug.
    That explains that.

    Lagerstroemia speciosa is also known as Banaba. I wonder how pure the Banaba is in both of them? And also, I wonder how much (mg) of each are in each of the supplements.
    Banaba is not the term you are looking for. If you are speaking of purity, you want to know how much Corosolic and Tannic Acid our Lagerstroemia is standardized for - in that case, 15-18% and 45-55%, respectively. Glucosol, the clinical trial Corosolic Acid product, is only standardized for 1% Corosolic Acid.

    Pslin is 500mg, and AP is 750mg. My guess would be 250mg of Lagerstroemia speciosa in both, probably around 20% purity, and 250 of GS in P-slin, and 500mg Phell in AP.

    Anyone with knowledge on these have any input?
    Nope, not even close.

    P-Slin is pure concentrated Corosolic Acid, at which dosage I will not reveal. Once again, Lagerstroemia is incorrect, as we standardize for two separate constituents.

    Also, if this is all thats in these two supplements, what makes them so different? the Phell or the GS? ie. What make p-slin so much better for preworkout? Also, i read in a study that bitter melon extract act almost identical to insulin in the body.
    Anabolic Pump is geared more towards regulating the energy expenditure ratio of myocytes to adipocytes, working towards an aggregate shift in body composition; P-Slin, on the other hand, is exclusively tuned to the regulation of glucose metabolism, providing energy, endurance, and strength.

    Bulk Banaba is and has been out there for some time - yet, I have not heard many positive reviews. My best advice would be to by both, and you will be quite surprised at the difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    I also have found that 45-55% pure tannic acid is in both of them...now just trying to find out how all of this fits together...and then we could all make our own AP and P-slin.
    Please do! I'd be very interested in your results, or lack thereof.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Please do! I'd be very interested in your results, or lack thereof.
    Dam bro your on fire tonight!
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    Thank you for the very clear definition(s) sir.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    My best advice would be to by both, and you will be quite surprised at the difference.
    Case in point to the OP. I am experimenting with YG/AP/PS as we speak.

    They are vastly different in many aspects.

    I've used AP pre workout for several weeks and liked it a lot. Took a few days to get my card count right to stave off hypo. Found the sweet spot and ran with it. Followed up post workout with AP as well.

    Tried P-Slin pre work out. Same carb count. Went hypo. Needed to adjust my carbs again. Followed up with AP. No too sure I need P-Slin pre workout. I have an injury and am really not throwing a lot of weight around. I did notice improved energy and performace somewhat despite working around my injury. I did not get the infamous P-slin pump, but i did not feed it enough carbs to get it.

    Now take YG. I am using it at 1-1.2 grams post workout (pre w/o p-slin). YG is not giving me that full feeling I get with AP yet it is keeping me lean, I can feel my body temp rise with carbs intake and my vascularity is insane with it. I get hungry again sooner with YG. But it is not AP nor is it p-slin. They are three different animals.

    I do feel that I will find a place for all three throughout my day and week depending upon my macros and goals.

    I recommend that you try them out for yourself to see the difference. It is significant. All good but all different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cellardude View Post
    lmao i dont think that would make jacob very happy.
    Oh no, quite the opposite my man! Telling USP Labs, or any retailer for that matter, you are going to source their active in bulk is akin to telling Jessica Alba you're going to bang her fat sister. If Jacob saw this thread he would most likely encourage these activities, as they make our product more attractive through experience.

    Dam bro your on fire tonight!
    Let me clarify, as I wasn't being snide. I was and am honestly interested in nattydisaster's potential results.

    Allow me to work through this. An individual like nattydisaster says:

    If I can find out what % Tannic Acid and Corosolic Acid are in P-Slin and AP, I can make my own
    While, on the other hand, I am thinking:

    Yes, but will he enquire about what ethanol % the extract is reduced into? Will he investigate which other specific Tannins are necessary that I have not mentioned? Does he know that the soil quality (or lack thereof if harvested and cultivated hydroponically) vastly affects the quality of the extracts? Therein, does he know specific constituents of the soil in particular areas affect the molecular composition of the plant? Will he enquire about how the plant was reacted in order to standardize for each constituent?
    There is this illusion out there that companies simply pluck 'any ol' extract' and throw it into a supplement - this is simply not the case. Sourcing is an ability, an art form, and a science. It does not come easy, nor cheap, and one needs to very qualitatively analyze their product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    I also have found that 45-55% pure tannic acid is in both of them...now just trying to find out how all of this fits together...and then we could all make our own AP and P-slin.
    Knock yourself out with Tannic acid...we sport the tannins fo.

    Please keep me updated on the toxic nature of your stomach after you digest 55% Tannic acid and while you’re at it you can cure some saddles and baseball mitts...researcher
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Please do! I'd be very interested in your results, or lack thereof.
    Hey man, i wasn't trying to be offensive or anything, i was just trying to break these products down. There should be nothing wrong with that. This can be done with 99% of supplements if you have the ingredients. P-slin and AP are new products, so they fall under the 1% that you can't. All i was trying to do was jump start some other people into helping me find out how it could be done. There is nothing wrong with that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs View Post
    Knock your self out with Tannic acid...we sport the tannins fo.

    Please keep me updated on the toxic nature of your stomach after you digest 55% Tannic acid and while your at it you can cure some sadles and baseball mits...researcher
    I know that tannic acid is toxic, actually, but i was referring to a post here:

    New to all this Carb and P-Slin Stuff...Need Help

    I know that tannic acid is most normally listed in certain foods as "no tannic acid found". I also know its the biggest component in some fishing lines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    I know that tannic acid is toxic, actually, but i was referring to a post here:

    New to all this Carb and P-Slin Stuff...Need Help

    I know that tannic acid is most normally listed in certain foods as "no tannic acid found". I also know its the biggest component in some fishing lines.
    That is a simple typo but as listed on the box it's Tannins Complex....
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    is it just me or does the post i linked and the above statements contradict? Again...not trying to cause an e-fight or anything, not trying to sound like im a researcher by any means...just trying to figure out exactly whats about to go in my body. Im already ordering AP and Pslin, and will use them how they are to be used.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    Hey man, i wasn't trying to be offensive or anything, i was just trying to break these products down. There should be nothing wrong with that. This can be done with 99% of supplements if you have the ingredients. P-slin and AP are new products, so they fall under the 1% that you can't. All i was trying to do was jump start some other people into helping me find out how it could be done. There is nothing wrong with that.

    Not offensive at all, I encourage it and always ask for the comparison in detail.

    I see it as a validation to our quality, innovation, and vision for others to try to copy and mock.

    The industry is built off leaders that are copied..its the norm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs View Post
    That is a simple typo but as listed on the box it's Tannins Complex....
    alright...well now you can see why my thoughts were what they were.
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    Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs View Post
    Not offensive at all, I encourage it and always ask for the comparison in detail.

    I see it as a validation to our quality, innovation, and vision for others to try to copy and mock.

    The industry is built off leaders that are copied..its the norm.
    Agreed, and these supplements are something that are new to the bodybuilding industry, and i respect something that's finally out of the norm
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    alright...well now you can see why my thoughts were what they were.

    Agreed but As a reseacher, You may of questioned why a toxic substance was listed instead of contemplating ordering and swallowing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    There is this illusion out there that companies simply pluck 'any ol' extract' and throw it into a supplement - this is simply not the case. Sourcing is an ability, an art form, and a science. It does not come easy, nor cheap, and one needs to very qualitatively analyze their product.
    I don't know if it is completely and illusion. I remember learning the little I do about the extracts ands what not when learning about things like guggulesterones and forsklin and what have you. I do believe that some do just pluck "any ol" and pass it on off the credible shirt tails of those who actually use higher standards and processes of extracts. I forget what the active was in guggul that can be completely absent in some and therefore make it an inferior extract yet be marketed as no less potent as one that is.

    Sorry to stick my $0.02 into this discussion but, to Jacob and Mullet, you stimulate the quality engineer in me that crosses over into this area of my life that I find some passion still exists when in your company. Man crush?

    "You make me want to be a better man" - Jack Nicholson to Helen Hunt in "As good as it gets"
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    you'd be better off spending your time researching the different ways of taking and combining the two supplements
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    I know that tannic acid is toxic, actually, but i was referring to a post here:

    New to all this Carb and P-Slin Stuff...Need Help

    I know that tannic acid is most normally listed in certain foods as "no tannic acid found". I also know its the biggest component in some fishing lines.
    Tannic Acid is recently being hypothesized as the most important component of Lagerstroemia as it pertains to glucose transport.

    Biochemical and Molecular Actions of Nutrients
    Tannic Acid Stimulates Glucose Transport and Inhibits Adipocyte Differentiation in 3T3-L1 Cells1

    Xueqing Liu*,2, Jae-kyung Kim*,2, Yunsheng Li{dagger}, Jing Li{dagger}, Fang Liu{dagger} and Xiaozhuo Chen*,{dagger},**,3

    * Department of Biochemistry, {dagger} Edison Biotechnology Institute, and ** Department of Biomedical Sciences, College of Osteopathic Medicine, Ohio University, Athens, OH 45701

    Obesity is a major risk factor for Syndrome X and type II diabetes (T2D). However, most antidiabetic drugs that are hypoglycemic also promote weight gain, thus alleviating one symptom of T2D while aggravating a major risk factor that leads to T2D. Adipogenesis, the differentiation and proliferation of adipocytes, is a major mechanism leading to weight gain and obesity. It is highly desirable to develop pharmaceuticals and treatments for T2D that reduce blood glucose levels without inducing adipogenesis in patients. Previously, we reported that an extract from Lagerstroemia speciosa L. (banaba) possessed activities that both stimulated glucose transport and inhibited adipocyte differentiation in 3T3-L1 cells. Using glucose uptake assays and Western/Northern blot analyses as major tools and 3T3-L1 cells as a model, we showed that the banaba extract (BE) with tannin removed was devoid of the 2 activities, and tannic acid (TA), a major component of tannins, had the same 2 activities as BE. Inhibitors known to abolish insulin-induced glucose transport also blocked TA-induced glucose transport. We further detected that TA induced phosphorylation of the insulin receptor (IR) and Akt, as well as translocation of glucose transporter 4 (GLUT 4), the protein factors involved in the signaling pathway of insulin-mediated glucose transport. We also demonstrated that TA inhibited the expression of key genes for adipogenesis. Differences between samples with or without TA in all of the quantitative assays were significant (P < 0.05). These results suggest that TA may be useful for the prevention and treatment of T2D and its associated obesity. TA may have the potential to become the lead compound in the development of new types of antidiabetic pharmaceuticals that are able to reduce blood glucose levels without increasing adiposity
    Full text: http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/135/2/165#F3

    Antidiabetes and Anti-obesity Activity of Lagerstroemia speciosa

    Guy Klein

    Tannins comprise a large and diverse class of polyphenolic compounds (31,32). Our search for the active components in the tannin fraction of BE was made much easier after we discovered that commercially available tannic acid (TA) shows similar glucose transport stimulatory activity to BE (29). The main components of TA are gallotannins, a subclass of the tannins usually consisting of a glucose core connected to a variable number of galloyl groups via ester bonds (Fig. 5).

    TA is known to exhibit various health-beneficial activities (33–36). As a constituent of red wine, it has been shown to effectively reduce blood glucose levels in type 2 diabetes patients (37) and the production of endothelin-1 (38), a key protein factor intimately involved in the development of cardiovascular disease (38). In our study, TA was found to be much more potent and efficacious than the ellagitannin Lagerstroemin (29). Therefore, TA was chosen as the focus of our research for isolating active compounds from the tannin fraction of BE. Components of TA were separated by HPLC, and active fractions were identified with a glucose uptake assay in 3T3-L1 adipocytes (29). The study led to the discovery of penta-O-galloyl-D-glucopyranose (PGG) as the most effective compound in TA (Fig. 5, 39). Both anomers of PGG occur in nature (40). The α-anomer was found to be slightly more active than the β-form in its glucose transport stimulatory activity (39).

    .....From the known studies, we conclude that tannin molecules are responsible for the insulin-like glucose transport stimulatory activity of the banaba extract. Gallotannins such as PGG appear to be more potent and efficacious than ellagitanins such as Lagerstroemin in IR binding, IR activation and glucose transport induction.
    In this same study, they conclude that Corosolic Acid mediated Glucose uptake is stimulated via indirect, non-insulin dependent pathways; such as the activation of Insulin-reactive protein cascades.

    Natural anti-diabetic compound 1,2,3,4,6-penta-O-galloyl-d-glucopyranose binds to insulin receptor and activates insulin-mediated glucose transport signaling pathwaystar, open

    Yunsheng Lia

    Abstract

    Insulin mimetics from natural sources are potential therapeutics that can act alone or supplement insulin and other anti-diabetic drugs in the prevention and treatment of diabetes. We recently reported the insulin-like glucose transport stimulatory activity of tannic acid (TA) in 3T3-L1 adipocytes. In this study, we find that chemically synthesized 1,2,3,4,6-penta-O-galloyl-β-d-glucopyranose (β-PGG), one of the components of TA, as well as its natural anomer greek small letter alpha-PGG possess activity. Mechanistic studies in adipocytes with greek small letter alpha-PGG, the more potent of the two anomers, reveal that inhibitors that block the insulin-mediated glucose transport, including one that inhibits the insulin receptor (IR), also completely abolish the glucose transport activated by greek small letter alpha-PGG. In addition, greek small letter alpha-PGG induces phosphorylation of the IR and Akt, activates PI 3-kinase, and stimulates membrane translocation of GLUT 4. Receptor binding studies indicate that greek small letter alpha-PGG binds to the IR and affects the binding between insulin and IR by reducing the maximum binding of insulin to IR without significantly altering the binding affinity of insulin to IR. Western blotting analysis of the products of a cross-linking reaction suggests that greek small letter alpha-PGG may bind to IR at a site located on the greek small letter alpha-subunit of the receptor. Animal studies demonstrate that PGG reduces blood glucose levels and improves glucose tolerance in diabetic and obese animals. Our results suggest that PGG may serve as a model for the development of new types of anti-diabetic and anti-metabolic syndrome therapeutics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    Hey man, i wasn't trying to be offensive or anything, i was just trying to break these products down. There should be nothing wrong with that. This can be done with 99% of supplements if you have the ingredients. P-slin and AP are new products, so they fall under the 1% that you can't. All i was trying to do was jump start some other people into helping me find out how it could be done. There is nothing wrong with that.
    lol, I never said there was, and in fact encouraged you twice.

    As I said, please do source the materials, and (once again) inform me of your results. I was not being rude or snide, I simply know you will be unpleasantly surprised by the vast difference between the two.

    Phytochemicals, alkaloids, and polyphenols are fickle compounds; a great myriad of factors effect the quality of their cultivation and extraction. Whereas Creatine Monohydrate is Creatine Mono is Creatine Mono, plant constituents are a 'different ball game', so to speak. Similar to hormones, the manner in which they are reacted can greatly affect the eventual outcome in your body.

    To use an example from a recent thread, a great many 'Superdrol' clones exist, all purporting the same chemical structure, but exerting different effects - why? Most likely because of improper reactions and fly-by-night sourcing activities producing inaccurate compounds. Bulk products can be very much the same. One must find a very, very high quality extractor. In most cases, these extractors work only in high quantities, with established retailers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    is it just me or does the post i linked and the above statements contradict? Again...not trying to cause an e-fight or anything, not trying to sound like im a researcher by any means...just trying to figure out exactly whats about to go in my body. Im already ordering AP and Pslin, and will use them how they are to be used.
    See above, but only concentrated Tannic Acid is used in commercial applications such as tanning. Lower serum concentrations have been used for quite some time in various health-related applications.

    The typo was mine as our product is standardized for 45% Tannins; however, with that being said, and as the references I posted demonstrated, Tannic Acid is 'the sh!t', as it were.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I don't know if it is completely and illusion. I remember learning the little I do about the extracts ands what not when learning about things like guggulesterones and forsklin and what have you. I do believe that some do just pluck "any ol" and pass it on off the credible shirt tails of those who actually use higher standards and processes of extracts. I forget what the active was in guggul that can be completely absent in some and therefore make it an inferior extract yet be marketed as no less potent as one that is.

    Sorry to stick my $0.02 into this discussion but, to Jacob and Mullet, you stimulate the quality engineer in me that crosses over into this area of my life that I find some passion still exists when in your company. Man crush?

    "You make me want to be a better man" - Jack Nicholson to Helen Hunt in "As good as it gets"
    I suppose I did not want to incite any E-Drama. There are certainly companies who 'copy-and-paste', though I must say we are not one of them. Jacob has been bucking the China-source trend since the inception of USP Labs.

    Best Brooklyn voice for B:

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    wait....jessica alba has a sister??..im in
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    Quote Originally Posted by john123131 View Post
    wait....jessica alba has a sister??..im in
    B, I hear her sister is on the upper side of 50 years. Irrelevant, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    B, I hear her sister is on the upper side of 50 years. Irrelevant, right?
    clearly....just to say your got with alba.....nobody needs to know it was her ugly fat sister.
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