CoQ-10 ?

ReaperX

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I've been taking Coq-10 since Jan '08. I haven't really noticed anything from it. I'm taking 100mg/ED in the morning. I've read the literature behind it, etc, etc, however I feel that it is a very expensive 'behind the scenes' supplement.


Discuss.
 
djbombsquad

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It is a awesome antioxidant. Especially people that exercise or have a week heart in general.
 
strategicmove

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Many factors may have been at play in your case. Generally, CoQ10 is especially difficult to absorb. The best quality is Kaneka, a Japanese company that leads worldwide ubiquinone and ubiquinol research. Prefer ubiquinol whenever possible. To improve ubiquinone (standard CoQ10) availability, some Kaneka brands even include D-Limonene, a natural compound found in orange peels that helps break down the CoQ10 particles for better absorption.

The recommendation by many researchers is to add Idebenone to a CoQ10 supplementation program to get the very best of both compounds.

As is well known, Idebenone, as an analog of CoQ10, can replace CoQ10 in the process of cellular energy production. Idebenone is also, like CoQ10, a powerful antioxidant. However, Idebenone is more water-soluble than CoQ10 and its cellular distribution and antioxidant structure also differ from those of CoQ10, making idebenone superior to CoQ10 in neutralizing some types of free free radicals, but inferior in fighting other types. In particular, idebnone is more effective than CoQ10 in protecting cells from the free radical damage resulting from reduced (abnormal) blood flow. In fact, some studies indicate idebenone is 30-100 times more effective than vitamin E or vinpocetine as a free radical quencher.
Furthermore, Idebenone protects under hypoxic conditions, a situation where CoQ10 may not be an adequate replacement. In addition, Idebenone (unlike CoQ10) has been shown to increase Nerve Growth Factor and enhance cholinergic activity, thus conferring Idebenone with cognitive enhancement abilities.
To continue, Idebenone is a potent anti-oxidant for protecting the very important mitochondria, by both surpressing free radical activity and protecting the unique mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). This is unique as mtDNA is only derived from our mother's genes.
Finally, when organs are "harvested" for transplant to another patient, it is often the case that Idebenone is used to protect it from damage.

It must be noted that most of the comparison between Idebenone and CoQ10 employed the standard Ubiquinone form of CoQ10, not Ubiquinol.

Most researchers suggest that a combined ingestion of both is superior to one regime only.

Considering that the daily recommendation for Idebenone lies between 45mg and 90mg for antioxidant and anti-aging benefits, I find Anabolic Innovations' Life Support and Cycle Support, both with 100mg Idebenone per day, excellent products for Idebenone supplementation. Not to mention some other co-factors in the products.
 

ReaperX

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What is a good brand to buy that gets absorbed well ? I think mine are generic ones that are gels that I got at the grocery store @ buy 1 get 1 free.

I'm all about cardiovascular health, but I want to make sure I'm atleast physically benefiting from the ones that I am taking.
 
strategicmove

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What is a good brand to buy that gets absorbed well ? I think mine are generic ones that are gels that I got at the grocery store @ buy 1 get 1 free.

I'm all about cardiovascular health, but I want to make sure I'm atleast physically benefiting from the ones that I am taking.
The best way to go, as far as I see it, is a combination of ubiquinol and Idebenone. One excellent ubiquinol brand is by Life Extension. You might need about 50mg daily (or up to 150mg daily for anti-aging/anti-senescence benefits). There may be other good brands, too. Add 100mg of Idebenone to that. Best Idebenone source is probably Life Support/Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations.
 
djbombsquad

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What is a good brand to buy that gets absorbed well ? I think mine are generic ones that are gels that I got at the grocery store @ buy 1 get 1 free.

I'm all about cardiovascular health, but I want to make sure I'm atleast physically benefiting from the ones that I am taking.

The one I use works. I did blood work and it showed key levels elevated. I tested before and after 30 days.
 
djbombsquad

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No sourcing. Sorry. You can PM me for a link.
 
strategicmove

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Let's not try to make CoQ10 sourcing sound mysterious! There is really nothing to it. People on the look out for effective formulas will find them. Just look at the type (ubiquinol or ubiquinone) and the absorption co-factors.
 
djbombsquad

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It is against toa to post links.
 
Jag

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The best way to go, as far as I see it, is a combination of ubiquinol and Idebenone. One excellent ubiquinol brand is by Life Extension. You might need about 50mg daily (or up to 150mg daily for anti-aging/anti-senescence benefits). There may be other good brands, too. Add 100mg of Idebenone to that. Best Idebenone source is probably Life Support/Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations.
I am just about to make an order with 100mg L.E. Co.Q10 being part of it and have also added Idebenone 180mg caps for me and 90mg caps for the wife.

Is the 180mg overkill for me?

I'm looking at anti-aging for both of us plus a little boost for the mind.

Jag
 
Royd The Noyd

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LEF has quality stuff. Also a lil good info..that many I'm sure know:

Effects of acute and 14-day coenzyme Q10 supplementation on exercise performance in both trained and untrained individuals

Matthew Cooke email, Mike Iosia email, Thomas Buford email, Brian Shelmadine email, Geoffrey Hudson email, Chad Kerksick email, Christopher Rasmussen email, Mike Greenwood email, Brian Leutholtz email, Darryn Willoughby email and Richard Kreider email

Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2008, 5:8doi:10.1186/1550-2783-5-8
Published: 4 March 2008
Abstract (provisional)

Background

To determine whether acute (single dose) and/or chronic (14-days) supplementation of CoQ10 will improve anaerobic and/or aerobic exercise performance by increasing plasma and muscle CoQ10 concentrations within trained and untrained individuals.
Methods

Twenty-two aerobically trained and nineteen untrained male and female subjects (26.1+/-7.6 yrs, 172+/-8.7 cm, 73.5+/-17 kg, and 21.2+/-7.0%) were randomized to ingest in a double-blind manner either 100 mg of a dextrose placebo (CON) or a fast-melt CoQ10 supplement (CoQ10) twice a day for 14-days. On the first day of supplementation, subjects donated fasting blood samples and a muscle biopsy. Subjects were then given 200 mg of the placebo or the CoQ10 supplement. Sixty minutes following supplement ingestion, subjects completed an isokinetic knee extension endurance test, a 30-second wingate anaerobic capacity test, and a maximal cardiopulmonary graded exercise test interspersed with 30-minutes of recovery. Additional blood samples were taken immediately following each exercise test and a second muscle biopsy sample was taken following the final exercise test. Subjects consumed twice daily (morning and night), 100mg of either supplement for a period of 14-days, and then returned to the lab to complete the same battery of tests. Data was analyzed using repeated measures ANOVA with an alpha of 0.05.
Results

Plasma CoQ10 levels were significantly increased following 2 weeks of CoQ10 supplementation (p<0.001); while a trend for higher muscle CoQ10 levels was observed after acute CoQ10 ingestion (p=0.098). A trend for lower serum superoxide dismutase (SOD) was observed following acute supplementation with CoQ10 (p=0.06), whereas serum malondialdehyde (MDA) tended to be significantly higher (p<0.05). Following acute ingestion of CoQ10, plasma CoQ10 levels were significantly correlated to muscle CoQ10 levels; maximal oxygen consumption; and treadmill time to exhaustion. A trend for increased time to exhaustion was observed following 2 weeks of CoQ10 supplementation (p=0.06).
Conclusions

Acute supplementation with CoQ10 resulted in higher muscle CoQ10 concentration, lower serum SOD oxidative stress, and higher MDA levels during and following exercise. Chronic CoQ10 supplementation increased plasma CoQ10 concentrations and tended to increase time to exhaustion. Results indicate that acute and chronic supplementation of CoQ10 may affect acute and/or chronic responses to various types of exercise.
 

Mr.50

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Many factors may have been at play in your case. Generally, CoQ10 is especially difficult to absorb. The best quality is Kaneka, a Japanese company that leads worldwide ubiquinone and ubiquinol research. Prefer ubiquinol whenever possible. To improve ubiquinone (standard CoQ10) availability, some Kaneka brands even include D-Limonene, a natural compound found in orange peels that helps break down the CoQ10 particles for better absorption.

The recommendation by many researchers is to add Idebenone to a CoQ10 supplementation program to get the very best of both compounds.

As is well known, Idebenone, as an analog of CoQ10, can replace CoQ10 in the process of cellular energy production. Idebenone is also, like CoQ10, a powerful antioxidant. However, Idebenone is more water-soluble than CoQ10 and its cellular distribution and antioxidant structure also differ from those of CoQ10, making idebenone superior to CoQ10 in neutralizing some types of free free radicals, but inferior in fighting other types. In particular, idebnone is more effective than CoQ10 in protecting cells from the free radical damage resulting from reduced (abnormal) blood flow. In fact, some studies indicate idebenone is 30-100 times more effective than vitamin E or vinpocetine as a free radical quencher.
Furthermore, Idebenone protects under hypoxic conditions, a situation where CoQ10 may not be an adequate replacement. In addition, Idebenone (unlike CoQ10) has been shown to increase Nerve Growth Factor and enhance cholinergic activity, thus conferring Idebenone with cognitive enhancement abilities.
To continue, Idebenone is a potent anti-oxidant for protecting the very important mitochondria, by both surpressing free radical activity and protecting the unique mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). This is unique as mtDNA is only derived from our mother's genes.
Finally, when organs are "harvested" for transplant to another patient, it is often the case that Idebenone is used to protect it from damage.

It must be noted that most of the comparison between Idebenone and CoQ10 employed the standard Ubiquinone form of CoQ10, not Ubiquinol.

Most researchers suggest that a combined ingestion of both is superior to one regime only.

Considering that the daily recommendation for Idebenone lies between 45mg and 90mg for antioxidant and anti-aging benefits, I find Anabolic Innovations' Life Support and Cycle Support, both with 100mg Idebenone per day, excellent products for Idebenone supplementation. Not to mention some other co-factors in the products.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to strategicmove again

:rasp:


Great posting Stategic! Hit you back later!

Mr.50
 
StanChampion

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I use the NOW brand 50mg with selenium and vit e.

they also have Ubiquinol (Kaneka QH™) (Reduced Form CoQ10) has d-Limonene in it as well.

going to try that version next. Not sure if it works, but I use it anyway :)
my BP is 117/68 @ 58 bpms :) maybe it helps with that.
 
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strategicmove

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I am just about to make an order with 100mg L.E. Co.Q10 being part of it and have also added Idebenone 180mg caps for me and 90mg caps for the wife.

Is the 180mg overkill for me?

I'm looking at anti-aging for both of us plus a little boost for the mind.

Jag
Idebenone is recommended at about 100mg daily. Dosing 180mg Idebenone with Ubiquinol may not be justified.
 
strategicmove

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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to strategicmove again

:rasp:


Great posting Stategic! Hit you back later!

Mr.50
Thanks, bud! No hassles! :)
 
Jag

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Idebenone is recommended at about 100mg daily. Dosing 180mg Idebenone with Ubiquinol may not be justified.
Thank you for your reply and apologies if this sounds dumb but did you mean NO Idebenone at all should be needed with the Ubiquinol or is 100mg a better option. This place has 180mg and 90mg caps available.

With my latest research efforts I was unable to decide which one is better but i'm looking at supplementing with these 2 supps forever for the above reasons. They both overlap in some qualities but also have subtle differences as well so I can work the cost into my budget if it's justified.

As i'm around 255lbs (17% bf) I always upped my doses a bit from the Recommened Directions on a lot of supps i've used so I just thought I'd do the same with these. Would this be necessary with the Co.Q10 and Idebenone? After reading more into the Ubiquinol I was thinking 50mg of the Ubiquinol Co.Q10 (Life Extension or Doctors Best) after breakfast and 50mg after lunch but have 90mg of Idebenone after breakfast only.

That would be more cost effective than my first plan....and I can afford to eat steak again :D

Jag
 
ams1

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i recently started taking it also. maybe a month or so. i havent really notcied much either. im taking 300 mg a day.
 
raginfcktard

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i started using it for its antioxidant capicity since i am currently using high doses of arginine supps. it looks like it might be of to those things you don't notice until you quit taking it?
 
strategicmove

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Thank you for your reply and apologies if this sounds dumb but did you mean NO Idebenone at all should be needed with the Ubiquinol or is 100mg a better option. This place has 180mg and 90mg caps available.

With my latest research efforts I was unable to decide which one is better but i'm looking at supplementing with these 2 supps forever for the above reasons. They both overlap in some qualities but also have subtle differences as well so I can work the cost into my budget if it's justified.

As i'm around 255lbs (17% bf) I always upped my doses a bit from the Recommened Directions on a lot of supps i've used so I just thought I'd do the same with these. Would this be necessary with the Co.Q10 and Idebenone? After reading more into the Ubiquinol I was thinking 50mg of the Ubiquinol Co.Q10 (Life Extension or Doctors Best) after breakfast and 50mg after lunch but have 90mg of Idebenone after breakfast only.

That would be more cost effective than my first plan....and I can afford to eat steak again :D

Jag
I meant 180mg of Idebenone plus 100mg of LEF Ubiquinol daily would be aggressive. So, I would recommend 100mg of LEF Ubiquinol plus 90mg - 100mg of Idebenone daily. Preferably in two divided doses.
 
Jag

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I meant 180mg of Idebenone plus 100mg of LEF Ubiquinol daily would be aggressive. So, I would recommend 100mg of LEF Ubiquinol plus 90mg - 100mg of Idebenone daily. Preferably in two divided doses.
Right, i'm set to go. Thanks for the advice.

ams1, getting Co.Q10 for free is a big bonus. Luck you!! From what i've read Ubiquinone is good in your 20s and 30s but becomes harder to absorb when you reach your 40s. This is where Ubiquinol does it's thing and you don't need as much.

There's a some good reading out there. I hope i won't get into trouble posting this link

http://www.kanekatexas.com/kanekaqh/wu_ubiqvsubiq.htm


Jag
 
strategicmove

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ReaperX

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Maybe they should 'ethyl ester' coq-10.


I think coq-10 is just one of those supplements that you just keep your fingers crossed is working.


One of the energy drink I drink has coq-10 in it. I am not sure how much I am getting because it is in proprierty blend, but judging its location based off FDA's regulations it is probably not even 1mg.


Also there is coq-10 in MST's MVP-365 multivitamin. I think it is 2mg. Who knows how much actually makes it into your blood stream.
 

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