uh oh.. md1t

[keithbakkr]

just finished up week three of fast actions new md1t....i gotta say i was pretty impressed. i gained about 10-11 lbs lost some fat and im stronger than ever... for week three i decided to up the dosages to three pills a day which equates to 30mg of phera and 75 mg of tren.. i stopped after i noticed a slight puffy feeling in my left pec.. i have a scary feeling that gyno may have taken hold...theres no lumps or anything so idk if im jsut being paraniod should i keep working out? or try to wait till this sensation disapears..

 

[Grant]

uh oh.. supplement forum

 

[b unit]

yes, wrong section dude

 

[keithbakkr]

oh **** well what should be under like steriods... i mean arent phs supplements

 

[Cellardude]

oh **** well what should be under like steriods... i mean arent phs supplements

lmao. I dont know why people keep thinking that PH's are supps. You happened to gain 10 pounds on a supplement? :lol:

 

[keithbakkr]

well i would probably contribute most of the weight gain from my diet but...

 

[Cellardude]

well i would probably contribute most of the weight gain from my diet but...

you mean you contribute all/most of your gains off the PH? lol

Just some info for you PH = non active steroid
Steroids = active form of steroid.

PH converts in the body to an active steroid. That is the ONLY difference.

So with this we can assume

A. steroids = gain in mass
PH = substance that converts to an active A.S within the body
therefor you took a steroid that attributes to your gains.

Diet is important while "on" but its not the reason you gained 10 pounds buddy. lol

 

[boxmeman]

you mean you contribute all/most of your gains off the PH? lol

Just some info for you PH = non active steroid
Steroids = active form of steroid.

PH converts in the body to an active steroid. That is the ONLY difference.

So with this we can assume

A. steroids = gain in mass
PH = substance that converts to an active A.S within the body
therefor you took a steroid that attributes to your gains.

Diet is important while "on" but its not the reason you gained 10 pounds buddy. lol

WOW great breakdown! lol I surely would have never wasted my time..but nice work cellar!:cheers:

 

[Cellardude]

WOW great breakdown! lol I surely would have never wasted my time..but nice work cellar!:cheers:

is that sarcasm i hear or your loser-olert picking up my scent? :lol:

 

[Cub]

uh oh.. supplement forum

I thought this was hilarious

 

[keithbakkr]

ha yea i know that a ph is a designer steriod..thats not any news to me buddy...but regardless of your "knowledgable" info...this post really has nothing to do at all with my cycle....it was about me turning into a girl

 

[delsolrob]

just finished up week three of fast actions new md1t....i gotta say i was pretty impressed. i gained about 10-11 lbs lost some fat and im stronger than ever... for week three i decided to up the dosages to three pills a day which equates to 30mg of phera and 75 mg of tren.. i stopped after i noticed a slight puffy feeling in my left pec.. i have a scary feeling that gyno may have taken hold...theres no lumps or anything so idk if im jsut being paraniod should i keep working out? or try to wait till this sensation disapears..

puffy/sensitive nipps don't necessarily equal gyno...that can happen just because of a change in hormones.

is it painfull? if you pinch your nip does a liquid come out?

what support supps were you taking, do you have a serm on hand? what do you have for PCT?

 

[delsolrob]

also, there's no need to stop working out.

 

[keithbakkr]

oh ok yea theres no liquid or anything but there tender and hurt slightly...i went to a doctor to try to get sum nolva but she wouldnt prescribe me it since she didnt feel any lumps... ill be home from college in a few days so then ill prolly pick sum up.. right now i just have some nove xt

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

About your developing breasts...

 

[quigs]

you mean you contribute all/most of your gains off the PH? lol

Just some info for you PH = non active steroid
Steroids = active form of steroid.

PH converts in the body to an active steroid. That is the ONLY difference.

So with this we can assume

A. steroids = gain in mass
PH = substance that converts to an active A.S within the body
therefor you took a steroid that attributes to your gains.

Diet is important while "on" but its not the reason you gained 10 pounds buddy. lol

Prohormone does not necessarily mean that its inactive. For example, would you consider testosterone...the king of all aas, to be a prohormone? Well, it converts to both dihydrotestosterone (DHT) which is a significantly more potent androgen and also to estrogen via aromatization. Both of these hormones are active, and are derived from an active hormone. This means that testosterone, by definition, is a pro-hormone.

This is also the case in many OTC "PH's". 4-androstendiol has and anabolic/androgenic activity similar to testosterone. It also converts to testosterone....which converts to DHT.

M1,4AD has anabolic activity on its own. It also converts to Dbol...which obviously has anabolic/androgenic actvity.

You may want to re-think your definitions before talking down to others for asking questions.

 

[Flick]

oh **** well what should be under like steriods... i mean arent phs supplements

Man.. Damn it

 

[keithbakkr]

thank you quiggs.. cellar has obviously not done his homework thoroughlly enough

 

[Cellardude]

thank you quiggs.. cellar has obviously not done his homework thoroughlly enough

I know that, Im only 18. I picked that up from somewhere. Does it matter if we dont know everything? Were all here to learn on the boards. You, as well as me are both here to learn from others. And being 18, I havent yet looked much into steroids yet. I have yet to put anything in my body on that caliber, but if I did, I would sure look it up more than you have my friend

but thanks.

 

[delsolrob]

Prohormone does not necessarily mean that its inactive. For example, would you consider testosterone...the king of all aas, to be a prohormone? Well, it converts to both dihydrotestosterone (DHT) which is a significantly more potent androgen and also to estrogen via aromatization. Both of these hormones are active, and are derived from an active hormone. This means that testosterone, by definition, is a pro-hormone.

This is also the case in many OTC "PH's". 4-androstendiol has and anabolic/androgenic activity similar to testosterone. It also converts to testosterone....which converts to DHT.

M1,4AD has anabolic activity on its own. It also converts to Dbol...which obviously has anabolic/androgenic actvity.

prohormones need to be converted to full, active hormones via an enzymatic process...testosterone does not.

Testosterone is an AAS, prohormones are different. testosterone is active without conversion.

almost all hormones convert to another hormone using some sort of mechanism. so are all hormones prohormones...no.

I don't think Cellardude's stance is incorrect.

thank you quiggs.. cellar has obviously not done his homework thoroughlly enough
You may want to re-think your definitions before talking down to others for asking questions.

no talking sh!t when you have obviously don't know what your talking about either...

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

what's going on fellows? why the confusion?

designer steroids are active steroids, i.e., they don't have to convert to anything to have anabolic/androgenic activity..

prohormones must be converted by enzymes in the body to become a compound having anabolic/androgenic activity.

Someone prob. already said that, but there it is now, plain and simple.

 

[delsolrob]

^^^^ perfect timing to give me some backup ^^^^

Thanks!:cheers:

 

[Cellardude]

prohormones need to be converted to full, active hormones via an enzymatic process...testosterone does not.

Testosterone is an AAS, prohormones are different. testosterone is active without conversion.

almost all hormones convert to another hormone using some sort of mechanism. so are all hormones prohormones...no.

I don't think Cellardude's stance is incorrect.



no talking sh!t when you have obviously don't know what your talking about either...

thank you del.

I was simply stating that PH's arent "supplements"

no need to jump down my throat if im wrong about something. rest assure, I would know more/do more research before ever putting something in my body. Heck I would know a supplement from a steroid way before I put something in my body. Thats why I stressed when I heard you call a PH a supplement.

 

[quigs]

prohormones need to be converted to full, active hormones via an enzymatic process...testosterone does not.

Testosterone is an AAS, prohormones are different. testosterone is active without conversion.

almost all hormones convert to another hormone using some sort of mechanism. so are all hormones prohormones...no.

I don't think Cellardude's stance is incorrect.



no talking sh!t when you have obviously don't know what your talking about either...

By your definition, 4-androstendiol is NOT a prohormone...because it is already active...even though it converts to test. Neither is M1,4AD, even though it converts to dbol.

I don't think that you understood my point. Testosterone is active. It is considered a steroid. Its also a prohormone, because it converts to another active steroid in DHT.

The whole prohormone definition...a made up term in the supplement industry...is pretty lousy. Its not so cut and dry. The point that I was getting at is "prohormones" aren't necessarily inactive compounds. They may have a certain target hormone, but many have anabolic/androgenic activity on their own.

 

[quigs]

what's going on fellows? why the confusion?

designer steroids are active steroids, i.e., they don't have to convert to anything to have anabolic/androgenic activity..

prohormones must be converted by enzymes in the body to become a compound having anabolic/androgenic activity.

Someone prob. already said that, but there it is now, plain and simple.

I understand these definitions, but think that they are extremely flawed.

How would you classify 4AD? M1,4AD? Most would say that these are "prohormones" and require enzymatic conversion. This is not the case. Even those deficient in 17-beta-HSD would experience anabolic effects from both compounds.

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

I understand these definitions, but think that they are extremely flawed.

How would you classify 4AD? M1,4AD? Most would say that these are "prohormones" and require enzymatic conversion. This is not the case. Even those deficient in 17-beta-HSD would experience anabolic effects from both compounds.

How do you figure?

 

[quigs]

How do you figure?

4-Androstendiol, according to vida, has an anabolic:androgenic ratio almost identical to testosterone.

M1,4AD has anabolic:androgenic activity...but is not as potent as dbol.

Neither require enzymatic conversion to be AR agonists.

 

[delsolrob]

I can only speak to 4-AD, and I believe 4-AD is converted to testosterone via the enzyme 3beta-HSD. it is not active until this conversion.

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

4-Androstendiol, according to vida, has an anabolic:androgenic ratio almost identical to testosterone.

M1,4AD has anabolic:androgenic activity...but is not as potent as dbol.

Neither require enzymatic conversion to be AR agonists.

Well then I guess there isn't really any simple definitive definition as far as prohormones and steroids are concerned.. Since, those 2 have anabolic/androgenic activity whether they are converted or not.

What do you suggest we refer to things as?

 

[delsolrob]

then can we just settle on Oral Steroid?

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

then can we just settle on Oral Steroid?

Or just orals?

Seriously, maybe a huge generalization is what we need most.. 2 groups.. Methylated orals, and non-methyl orals.. There we go!

 

[boxmeman]

OMFG this thread is a fvcking mess...

 

[delsolrob]

Or just orals?

Mmmmmm...Oral!

on that note I think I gotta run...I think my gf is almost here :run:

 

[Cellardude]

Mmmmmm...Oral!

on that note I think I gotta run...I think my gf is almost here :run:

:rofl:

 

[Grant]

I can only speak to 4-AD, and I believe 4-AD is converted to testosterone via the enzyme 3beta-HSD. it is not active until this conversion.

It is active before conversion.

 

[quigs]

I can only speak to 4-AD, and I believe 4-AD is converted to testosterone via the enzyme 3beta-HSD. it is not active until this conversion.

You are correct. 4-diol converts to test via 3-beta-HSD while 4-dione converts via 17-HSD. I was thinking dione for some reason when I typed that.

You are incorrect regarding its activity however. 4-diol is indeed active and is a potent AR agonist itself.

 

[quigs]

Well then I guess there isn't really any simple definitive definition as far as prohormones and steroids are concerned.. Since, those 2 have anabolic/androgenic activity whether they are converted or not.

What do you suggest we refer to things as?

I just consider them all steroids. Technically, because of their cholesterol backbone they are all considered steroid hormones. I guess the only differentiation that I see is that some are "legal" while others are considered class III controlled substances.

I guess it just irks me when I see people jump down other's throats for using prohormone, prosteroid, and steroid interchangeably.

 

[keithbakkr]

yea... i never said that a ph wasnt a steriod i just stated that i figured this post would go into the supplement section since they are over the counter...i never neglected there dangers or care and research that should go into it before attempting a cycle