ATTN WORLD: Why does ANYONE still take BETA ALANINE?

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    ATTN WORLD: Why does ANYONE still take BETA ALANINE?


    Alright gentlemen, I'm playing devil's advocate again...

    Beta alanine, IMHO the most hyped supplement lately, does not do jack according to this (particularly well performed) clinical study:


    STUDY: The effects of 10 weeks of resistance training combined with beta-alanine supplementation on whole body strength, force production, muscular endurance and body composition.

    ABSTRACT: Carnosine (Carn) occurs in high concentrations in skeletal muscle is a potent physico-chemical buffer of H(+) over the physiological range. Recent research has demonstrated that 6.4 g.day(-1) of beta-alanine (beta-ala) can significantly increase skeletal muscle Carn concentrations (M-[Carn]) whilst the resultant change in buffering capacity has been shown to be paralleled by significant improvements in anaerobic and aerobic measures of exercise performance. Muscle carnosine increase has also been linked to increased work done during resistance training. Prior research has suggested that strength training may also increase M-[Carn] although this is disputed by other studies. The aim of this investigation is to assess the effect of 10 weeks resistance training on M-[Carn], and, secondly, to investigate if increased M-[Carn] brought about through beta-ala supplementation had a positive effect on training responses. Twenty-six Vietnamese sports science students completed the study. The subjects completed a 10-week resistance-training program whilst consuming 6.4 g.day(-1) of beta-ala (beta-ALG) or a matched dose of a placebo (PLG). Subjects were assessed prior to and after training for whole body strength, isokinetic force production, muscular endurance, body composition. beta-Alanine supplemented subjects increased M-[Carn] by 12.81 +/- 7.97 mmol.kg(-1) dry muscle whilst there was no change in PLG subjects. There was no significant effect of beta-ala supplementation on any of the exercise parameters measured, mass or % body fat. In conclusion, 10 weeks of resistance training alone did not change M-[Carn].

    LINK: Click Here


    ...SO WHY DOES ANYONE STILL TAKE THIS???

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    I definitely notice a difference when I supplement with beta alanine. Greater strength and less fatigue. All the "science" I need.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiftNDestroy View Post
    I definitely notice a difference when I supplement with beta alanine. Greater strength and less fatigue. All the "science" I need.
    That must be the Placebo™-Delivery Transport Matrix working.

    Im just looking for cold hard facts on this case. My science says your anecdotal evidence is wrong.
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    I don't take it.
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    aen, has compiled a huge amount of research on benefits of ba.
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    Its cheap and effective and makes me feel all warm inside. Better then most supps marketed lately.
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazy View Post
    That must be the Placebo™-Delivery Transport Matrix working.

    Im just looking for cold hard facts on this case. My science says your anecdotal evidence is wrong.
    Your "science" says his anecdotal evidence is wrong? There are also studies proving BAs effectiveness like Big T said, so disregarding noted benfits as placebo can't be proven. If it works for people and its cheap than I say go for it.

    Whether or not it is over hyped is personal opinion, not scientific fact. I personally like BA
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    The discussion is quite well written, where they compare the previous studies. One thing they bring up is that the rest intervals were long (2-5mins) which may not have been the case in previous studies which may have allowed the buffering ability to have a greater effect (They word it much better, PM me if you want to read the full study)

    I'm cycling off Creatine and BA at the moment, so I'll look for any changes but I believe BA does help me get a few more reps out.

    PS just incase you missed it and some BA loved goes haywire lol
    Quote Originally Posted by krazy View Post
    I'm playing devil's advocate again...
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    It was done on a small group of undergrads. It investigated the effects of the supplement on body composition and peformance with an unmentioned training protocol. How is this a particularly well-performed study? It sounds like there were a lot of loopholes created due to a lack of funding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph View Post
    The discussion is quite well written, where they compare the previous studies. One thing they bring up is that the rest intervals were long (2-5mins) which may not have been the case in previous studies which may have allowed the buffering ability to have a greater effect (They word it much better, PM me if you want to read the full study)
    So are you saying that in this study, the rest intervals might have overcome the potential endurance boost by BA that, otherwise, could have been seen if the intervals were shorter?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    aen, has compiled a huge amount of research on benefits of ba.
    Link?
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazy View Post
    So are you saying that in this study, the rest intervals might have overcome the potential endurance boost by BA that, otherwise, could have been seen if the intervals were shorter?
    Lactic acid only hinders performance at the near end of a set, as the body is scratching for energy to continue to move the muscle.

    That burning feeling you get when you run a sprint, that's lactic acid. After a few short minutes of rest, the acid will clear, and you're good to go again. In the event the acidic part of it is buffered, it can be better utilized to for energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazy View Post
    So are you saying that in this study, the rest intervals might have overcome the potential endurance boost by BA that, otherwise, could have been seen if the intervals were shorter?
    Sort of. What I got from the article's discussion is that in previous studies the buffering effects may have allowed the participants to more volume because they didn't have to rest as long and could therefore put in more sets/overall volume (Whereas in this study they said there was inconsistency in the rest intervals from 2-5minutes because of the # of participants and machine availability)
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazy View Post
    So are you saying that in this study, the rest intervals might have overcome the potential endurance boost by BA that, otherwise, could have been seen if the intervals were shorter?
    I have to agree that the study was not properly aimed at determining the effectiveness of BA because of the longer rest intervals. As with most studies I would take the science with a grain of salt, and focus more on the general consensus of the community based on not only science but also anecdotal evidence. I personally have only noticed positive effects immediately while doing sprints and shoulder exercises. Does that mean it has no effect on the rest of my muscle mass, no, it just means those activities where more prone to lactic acid build up. So all in all I believe at most this study shows that BA may not be effective for certain training protocols, as is true with just about every other supplement on the market. Nice find though, its always nice to be exposed to opposing views.
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    look how long it took the scientific community to recognize the benifits of creatine on strength and muscle growth. people continued to use creatine over the years not because of scientific studies, but because it worked.
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    Ah good points all around. Giving out all the rep love I can
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmiller383 View Post
    I have to agree that the study was not properly aimed at determining the effectiveness of BA because of the longer rest intervals. As with most studies I would take the science with a grain of salt, and focus more on the general consensus of the community based on not only science but also anecdotal evidence. I personally have only noticed positive effects immediately while doing sprints and shoulder exercises. Does that mean it has no effect on the rest of my muscle mass, no, it just means those activities where more prone to lactic acid build up. So all in all I believe at most this study shows that BA may not be effective for certain training protocols, as is true with just about every other supplement on the market. Nice find though, its always nice to be exposed to opposing views.
    Could you quantify a bit more about your sprints/shoulder exercise differences?
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    What other supplement makes you feel like a crackhead?? It gets my vote
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurleyboy05 View Post
    What other supplement makes you feel like a crackhead?? It gets my vote
    Crack.
    And clearshot.
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    Hashed out a several weeks ago.

    Beta-alanine: overrated.

    cheers.
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    I use it more for the anti-aging aspects than for training per se. I noticed only a small increase in strength from it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurleyboy05 View Post
    What other supplement makes you feel like a crackhead?? It gets my vote
    GABA gives a pretty good rush too It's fun to play around with, especially since I bought 500g of it lol.
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    this study means nothing...too many loopholes...ive read studies stating creatine is a useless supplement as well...with no significant increases in body mass and/or strength...and we all know that creatine works...one study means nothing...u kinda have to average ALL the studies on BA...like 1 says useless and 10 say great...then obviously ill go with the majority...
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    It was done on a small group of undergrads. It investigated the effects of the supplement on body composition and peformance with an unmentioned training protocol. How is this a particularly well-performed study? It sounds like there were a lot of loopholes created due to a lack of funding.

    you also leave out that it was all vietnamese men as well. There are quite possibly racial differences too. keep in mind that asian men don't see any estrogen level change with the consumption of soy, but caucasians do.... so the small racial group alone leaves a big question mark as to its validity to other racial groups
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    I have never used it, but will be shortly running the version by AMS. I have only heard really good things by those that used it
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaredGalloway View Post
    this study means nothing...too many loopholes...ive read studies stating creatine is a useless supplement as well...with no significant increases in body mass and/or strength...and we all know that creatine works...one study means nothing...u kinda have to average ALL the studies on BA...like 1 says useless and 10 say great...then obviously ill go with the majority...
    That was a solitary study of many. If you read the thread I started in the aforementioned link, the studies that prove it useful as a supp alone are few, two of which are poorly done with confounding variables, ie concomitant creatine use.
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazy View Post
    Alright gentlemen, I'm playing devil's advocate again...

    Beta alanine, IMHO the most hyped supplement lately, does not do jack according to this (particularly well performed) clinical study:


    STUDY: The effects of 10 weeks of resistance training combined with beta-alanine supplementation on whole body strength, force production, muscular endurance and body composition.

    ABSTRACT: Carnosine (Carn) occurs in high concentrations in skeletal muscle is a potent physico-chemical buffer of H(+) over the physiological range. Recent research has demonstrated that 6.4 g.day(-1) of beta-alanine (beta-ala) can significantly increase skeletal muscle Carn concentrations (M-[Carn]) whilst the resultant change in buffering capacity has been shown to be paralleled by significant improvements in anaerobic and aerobic measures of exercise performance. Muscle carnosine increase has also been linked to increased work done during resistance training. Prior research has suggested that strength training may also increase M-[Carn] although this is disputed by other studies. The aim of this investigation is to assess the effect of 10 weeks resistance training on M-[Carn], and, secondly, to investigate if increased M-[Carn] brought about through beta-ala supplementation had a positive effect on training responses. Twenty-six Vietnamese sports science students completed the study. The subjects completed a 10-week resistance-training program whilst consuming 6.4 g.day(-1) of beta-ala (beta-ALG) or a matched dose of a placebo (PLG). Subjects were assessed prior to and after training for whole body strength, isokinetic force production, muscular endurance, body composition. beta-Alanine supplemented subjects increased M-[Carn] by 12.81 +/- 7.97 mmol.kg(-1) dry muscle whilst there was no change in PLG subjects. There was no significant effect of beta-ala supplementation on any of the exercise parameters measured, mass or % body fat. In conclusion, 10 weeks of resistance training alone did not change M-[Carn].

    LINK: Click Here


    ...SO WHY DOES ANYONE STILL TAKE THIS???
    The studies referenced HERE say otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    It was done on a small group of undergrads. It investigated the effects of the supplement on body composition and peformance with an unmentioned training protocol. How is this a particularly well-performed study? It sounds like there were a lot of loopholes created due to a lack of funding.
    Agreed. In addition to no controlled training protocol, there's no mention of diet. Training and diet have such a huge impact on mass and bf%, that any study that doesn't control those aspects is kind of useless. As has been stated in this and other forums ad naseum, supplements will not help you very much if your diet and training are out of whack.

    These guys may have been eating rice and soy beans for 10 weeks.
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    Why do I still take Beta-Alanine?

    Real answer: because I bought the powder in bulk and will continue to use it until it's done.

    Plus there are lots of ppl that swear by it. In fact, this is the first I've heard of anything against taking it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Lactic acid only hinders performance at the near end of a set, as the body is scratching for energy to continue to move the muscle.

    That burning feeling you get when you run a sprint, that's lactic acid. After a few short minutes of rest, the acid will clear, and you're good to go again. In the event the acidic part of it is buffered, it can be better utilized to for energy.
    isnt there a connection with lactic acid and release of GH? would buffering it be worth it?
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    I'm still kind of wondering this question as well. The only place I really see Beta-Alanine in good use is for swimmers or long distance runners. I've tried it a couple times for 1-2 month intervals. I didn't really notice any strength gains at all, but did have a slightly noticeable increase in endurance. My muscles just weren't quite as tired after a workout as without the Beta-Alanine. This isn't something I'm looking for in a supplement, so I'm not using it anymore and don't plan on using it again in the future.
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    Actually just read in Muscle Dvelopment, another study from the College of New Jersey researched BA. "Produced greater training volumes during weight training and had reduced feelings in fatigue."
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazy View Post
    That must be the Placebo™-Delivery Transport Matrix working.

    Im just looking for cold hard facts on this case. My science says your anecdotal evidence is wrong.

    Ouch, harsh man. One study can hardly be considered conclusive. Especially when the test population is allowed too many unmeasured factors, as seems to be the case here.
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    Honestly... There is no way marginal benefits are worth the horribke skin crawling feeling. I have a ton of it here that i refused to use LONG before all of this came up because of the taste...

    BA, Citruline malate, all of these products never pan out...

    Only one I will stand behind is Coleus - thats gold
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    Quote Originally Posted by justreading View Post
    i refused to use LONG before all of this came up because of the taste...
    Yours tastes bad? Mine is a large grain, sugar-like, powder and is pretty much flavorless. Is yours bulk or a designer brand?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurleyboy05 View Post
    Yours tastes bad? Mine is a large grain, sugar-like, powder and is pretty much flavorless. Is yours bulk or a designer brand?
    poor choice of words... its more the skin crawling thing, friggin hell! I wont take niacin, gaba or BA - That sensation just skeeves me out HARD
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    Quote Originally Posted by justreading View Post
    skeeves
    I havent heard that since 1999.
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazy View Post
    I havent heard that since 1999.
    Far out... whatever I'll do what i want (cartman, not me having a cow)...
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    Quote Originally Posted by justreading View Post
    Honestly... There is no way marginal benefits are worth the horribke skin crawling feeling. I have a ton of it here that i refused to use LONG before all of this came up because of the taste...
    To avoid the paresthesia, you can dose smaller throughout the day (This study used 800mgx8/day) and also taking the BA with carbs can help blunt the feeling.
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    I heard it reduces over time, too.
  

  
 

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    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-27-2008, 01:18 AM

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