ATTN WORLD: Why does ANYONE still take BETA ALANINE?

[krazy]

Alright gentlemen, I'm playing devil's advocate again...

Beta alanine, IMHO the most hyped supplement lately, does not do jack according to this (particularly well performed) clinical study:


STUDY: The effects of 10 weeks of resistance training combined with beta-alanine supplementation on whole body strength, force production, muscular endurance and body composition.

ABSTRACT: Carnosine (Carn) occurs in high concentrations in skeletal muscle is a potent physico-chemical buffer of H(+) over the physiological range. Recent research has demonstrated that 6.4 g.day(-1) of beta-alanine (beta-ala) can significantly increase skeletal muscle Carn concentrations (M-[Carn]) whilst the resultant change in buffering capacity has been shown to be paralleled by significant improvements in anaerobic and aerobic measures of exercise performance. Muscle carnosine increase has also been linked to increased work done during resistance training. Prior research has suggested that strength training may also increase M-[Carn] although this is disputed by other studies. The aim of this investigation is to assess the effect of 10 weeks resistance training on M-[Carn], and, secondly, to investigate if increased M-[Carn] brought about through beta-ala supplementation had a positive effect on training responses. Twenty-six Vietnamese sports science students completed the study. The subjects completed a 10-week resistance-training program whilst consuming 6.4 g.day(-1) of beta-ala (beta-ALG) or a matched dose of a placebo (PLG). Subjects were assessed prior to and after training for whole body strength, isokinetic force production, muscular endurance, body composition. beta-Alanine supplemented subjects increased M-[Carn] by 12.81 +/- 7.97 mmol.kg(-1) dry muscle whilst there was no change in PLG subjects. There was no significant effect of beta-ala supplementation on any of the exercise parameters measured, mass or % body fat. In conclusion, 10 weeks of resistance training alone did not change M-[Carn].

LINK: Click Here


...SO WHY DOES ANYONE STILL TAKE THIS???

 

[LiftNDestroy]

I definitely notice a difference when I supplement with beta alanine. Greater strength and less fatigue. All the "science" I need.

 

[krazy]

I definitely notice a difference when I supplement with beta alanine. Greater strength and less fatigue. All the "science" I need.

That must be the Placebo™-Delivery Transport Matrix working.

Im just looking for cold hard facts on this case. My science says your anecdotal evidence is wrong.

 

[ReaperX]

I don't take it.

 

[thebigt]

aen, has compiled a huge amount of research on benefits of ba.

 

[Australian made]

Its cheap and effective and makes me feel all warm inside. Better then most supps marketed lately.

 

[OCCFan023]

That must be the Placebo™-Delivery Transport Matrix working.

Im just looking for cold hard facts on this case. My science says your anecdotal evidence is wrong.

Your "science" says his anecdotal evidence is wrong? There are also studies proving BAs effectiveness like Big T said, so disregarding noted benfits as placebo can't be proven. If it works for people and its cheap than I say go for it.

Whether or not it is over hyped is personal opinion, not scientific fact. I personally like BA

 

[Steveoph]

The discussion is quite well written, where they compare the previous studies. One thing they bring up is that the rest intervals were long (2-5mins) which may not have been the case in previous studies which may have allowed the buffering ability to have a greater effect (They word it much better, PM me if you want to read the full study)

I'm cycling off Creatine and BA at the moment, so I'll look for any changes but I believe BA does help me get a few more reps out.

PS just incase you missed it and some BA loved goes haywire lol

I'm playing devil's advocate again...

 

[thesinner]

It was done on a small group of undergrads. It investigated the effects of the supplement on body composition and peformance with an unmentioned training protocol. How is this a particularly well-performed study? It sounds like there were a lot of loopholes created due to a lack of funding.

 

[krazy]

The discussion is quite well written, where they compare the previous studies. One thing they bring up is that the rest intervals were long (2-5mins) which may not have been the case in previous studies which may have allowed the buffering ability to have a greater effect (They word it much better, PM me if you want to read the full study)

So are you saying that in this study, the rest intervals might have overcome the potential endurance boost by BA that, otherwise, could have been seen if the intervals were shorter?

 

[krazy]

aen, has compiled a huge amount of research on benefits of ba.

Link?

 

[thesinner]

So are you saying that in this study, the rest intervals might have overcome the potential endurance boost by BA that, otherwise, could have been seen if the intervals were shorter?

Lactic acid only hinders performance at the near end of a set, as the body is scratching for energy to continue to move the muscle.

That burning feeling you get when you run a sprint, that's lactic acid. After a few short minutes of rest, the acid will clear, and you're good to go again. In the event the acidic part of it is buffered, it can be better utilized to for energy.

 

[Steveoph]

So are you saying that in this study, the rest intervals might have overcome the potential endurance boost by BA that, otherwise, could have been seen if the intervals were shorter?

Sort of. What I got from the article's discussion is that in previous studies the buffering effects may have allowed the participants to more volume because they didn't have to rest as long and could therefore put in more sets/overall volume (Whereas in this study they said there was inconsistency in the rest intervals from 2-5minutes because of the # of participants and machine availability)

 

[pmiller383]

So are you saying that in this study, the rest intervals might have overcome the potential endurance boost by BA that, otherwise, could have been seen if the intervals were shorter?

I have to agree that the study was not properly aimed at determining the effectiveness of BA because of the longer rest intervals. As with most studies I would take the science with a grain of salt, and focus more on the general consensus of the community based on not only science but also anecdotal evidence. I personally have only noticed positive effects immediately while doing sprints and shoulder exercises. Does that mean it has no effect on the rest of my muscle mass, no, it just means those activities where more prone to lactic acid build up. So all in all I believe at most this study shows that BA may not be effective for certain training protocols, as is true with just about every other supplement on the market. Nice find though, its always nice to be exposed to opposing views.

 

[thebigt]

look how long it took the scientific community to recognize the benifits of creatine on strength and muscle growth. people continued to use creatine over the years not because of scientific studies, but because it worked.

 

[krazy]

Ah good points all around. Giving out all the rep love I can

 

[krazy]

I have to agree that the study was not properly aimed at determining the effectiveness of BA because of the longer rest intervals. As with most studies I would take the science with a grain of salt, and focus more on the general consensus of the community based on not only science but also anecdotal evidence. I personally have only noticed positive effects immediately while doing sprints and shoulder exercises. Does that mean it has no effect on the rest of my muscle mass, no, it just means those activities where more prone to lactic acid build up. So all in all I believe at most this study shows that BA may not be effective for certain training protocols, as is true with just about every other supplement on the market. Nice find though, its always nice to be exposed to opposing views.

Could you quantify a bit more about your sprints/shoulder exercise differences?

 

[Hurleyboy05]

What other supplement makes you feel like a crackhead?? It gets my vote :thumbsup:

 

[krazy]

What other supplement makes you feel like a crackhead?? It gets my vote :thumbsup:

Crack.
And clearshot. :run: :djparty:

 

[DeerDeer]

Hashed out a several weeks ago.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/91138-beta-alanine-overrated.html

cheers.

 

[bioman]

I use it more for the anti-aging aspects than for training per se. I noticed only a small increase in strength from it.

 

[Steveoph]

What other supplement makes you feel like a crackhead?? It gets my vote :thumbsup:

GABA gives a pretty good rush too It's fun to play around with, especially since I bought 500g of it lol.

 

[JaredGalloway]

this study means nothing...too many loopholes...ive read studies stating creatine is a useless supplement as well...with no significant increases in body mass and/or strength...and we all know that creatine works...one study means nothing...u kinda have to average ALL the studies on BA...like 1 says useless and 10 say great...then obviously ill go with the majority...

 

[EasyEJL]

It was done on a small group of undergrads. It investigated the effects of the supplement on body composition and peformance with an unmentioned training protocol. How is this a particularly well-performed study? It sounds like there were a lot of loopholes created due to a lack of funding.

you also leave out that it was all vietnamese men as well. There are quite possibly racial differences too. keep in mind that asian men don't see any estrogen level change with the consumption of soy, but caucasians do.... so the small racial group alone leaves a big question mark as to its validity to other racial groups

 

[AE14]

I have never used it, but will be shortly running the version by AMS. I have only heard really good things by those that used it

 

[DeerDeer]

this study means nothing...too many loopholes...ive read studies stating creatine is a useless supplement as well...with no significant increases in body mass and/or strength...and we all know that creatine works...one study means nothing...u kinda have to average ALL the studies on BA...like 1 says useless and 10 say great...then obviously ill go with the majority...

That was a solitary study of many. If you read the thread I started in the aforementioned link, the studies that prove it useful as a supp alone are few, two of which are poorly done with confounding variables, ie concomitant creatine use.

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

Alright gentlemen, I'm playing devil's advocate again...

Beta alanine, IMHO the most hyped supplement lately, does not do jack according to this (particularly well performed) clinical study:


STUDY: The effects of 10 weeks of resistance training combined with beta-alanine supplementation on whole body strength, force production, muscular endurance and body composition.

ABSTRACT: Carnosine (Carn) occurs in high concentrations in skeletal muscle is a potent physico-chemical buffer of H(+) over the physiological range. Recent research has demonstrated that 6.4 g.day(-1) of beta-alanine (beta-ala) can significantly increase skeletal muscle Carn concentrations (M-[Carn]) whilst the resultant change in buffering capacity has been shown to be paralleled by significant improvements in anaerobic and aerobic measures of exercise performance. Muscle carnosine increase has also been linked to increased work done during resistance training. Prior research has suggested that strength training may also increase M-[Carn] although this is disputed by other studies. The aim of this investigation is to assess the effect of 10 weeks resistance training on M-[Carn], and, secondly, to investigate if increased M-[Carn] brought about through beta-ala supplementation had a positive effect on training responses. Twenty-six Vietnamese sports science students completed the study. The subjects completed a 10-week resistance-training program whilst consuming 6.4 g.day(-1) of beta-ala (beta-ALG) or a matched dose of a placebo (PLG). Subjects were assessed prior to and after training for whole body strength, isokinetic force production, muscular endurance, body composition. beta-Alanine supplemented subjects increased M-[Carn] by 12.81 +/- 7.97 mmol.kg(-1) dry muscle whilst there was no change in PLG subjects. There was no significant effect of beta-ala supplementation on any of the exercise parameters measured, mass or % body fat. In conclusion, 10 weeks of resistance training alone did not change M-[Carn].

LINK: Click Here


...SO WHY DOES ANYONE STILL TAKE THIS???

The studies referenced HERE say otherwise.

 

[EctoPower]

It was done on a small group of undergrads. It investigated the effects of the supplement on body composition and peformance with an unmentioned training protocol. How is this a particularly well-performed study? It sounds like there were a lot of loopholes created due to a lack of funding.

Agreed. In addition to no controlled training protocol, there's no mention of diet. Training and diet have such a huge impact on mass and bf%, that any study that doesn't control those aspects is kind of useless. As has been stated in this and other forums ad naseum, supplements will not help you very much if your diet and training are out of whack.

These guys may have been eating rice and soy beans for 10 weeks.

 

[Sunder]

Why do I still take Beta-Alanine?

Real answer: because I bought the powder in bulk and will continue to use it until it's done.

Plus there are lots of ppl that swear by it. In fact, this is the first I've heard of anything against taking it.

 

[T H E O R E M]

Lactic acid only hinders performance at the near end of a set, as the body is scratching for energy to continue to move the muscle.

That burning feeling you get when you run a sprint, that's lactic acid. After a few short minutes of rest, the acid will clear, and you're good to go again. In the event the acidic part of it is buffered, it can be better utilized to for energy.

isnt there a connection with lactic acid and release of GH? would buffering it be worth it?

 

[goslamacamel]

I'm still kind of wondering this question as well. The only place I really see Beta-Alanine in good use is for swimmers or long distance runners. I've tried it a couple times for 1-2 month intervals. I didn't really notice any strength gains at all, but did have a slightly noticeable increase in endurance. My muscles just weren't quite as tired after a workout as without the Beta-Alanine. This isn't something I'm looking for in a supplement, so I'm not using it anymore and don't plan on using it again in the future.

 

[footster]

Actually just read in Muscle Dvelopment, another study from the College of New Jersey researched BA. "Produced greater training volumes during weight training and had reduced feelings in fatigue."

 

[Resolve]

That must be the Placebo™-Delivery Transport Matrix working.

Im just looking for cold hard facts on this case. My science says your anecdotal evidence is wrong.

Ouch, harsh man. One study can hardly be considered conclusive. Especially when the test population is allowed too many unmeasured factors, as seems to be the case here.

 

[justreading]

Honestly... There is no way marginal benefits are worth the horribke skin crawling feeling. I have a ton of it here that i refused to use LONG before all of this came up because of the taste...

BA, Citruline malate, all of these products never pan out...

Only one I will stand behind is Coleus - thats gold

 

[Hurleyboy05]

i refused to use LONG before all of this came up because of the taste...

Yours tastes bad? Mine is a large grain, sugar-like, powder and is pretty much flavorless. Is yours bulk or a designer brand?

 

[justreading]

Yours tastes bad? Mine is a large grain, sugar-like, powder and is pretty much flavorless. Is yours bulk or a designer brand?

poor choice of words... its more the skin crawling thing, friggin hell! I wont take niacin, gaba or BA - That sensation just skeeves me out HARD

 

[krazy]

skeeves

I havent heard that since 1999.

 

[justreading]

I havent heard that since 1999.

Far out... whatever I'll do what i want (cartman, not me having a cow)...

 

[Steveoph]

Honestly... There is no way marginal benefits are worth the horribke skin crawling feeling. I have a ton of it here that i refused to use LONG before all of this came up because of the taste...

To avoid the paresthesia, you can dose smaller throughout the day (This study used 800mgx8/day) and also taking the BA with carbs can help blunt the feeling.

 

[krazy]

I heard it reduces over time, too.

 

[justreading]

To avoid the paresthesia, you can dose smaller throughout the day (This study used 800mgx8/day) and also taking the BA with carbs can help blunt the feeling.

Are you trying to rub it in my face that i am on no carbs... ha, thanks for the advice, sleep depravation and zero carbs has me out of oit so nevermind my half-wit replies

 

[Wanderlei]

Let's look at the study in detail. All emphasis in the studies are mine or at least I'll assume responsbility for them. Thanks to ersatz and eryanb for the studies and discussion.

Subjects
Twenty-six male Vietnamese physical education students completed the study. Subjects were fit and healthy having
completed health history questionnaires, and were not currently involved in any programme of resistance training.
The subjects were divided into two groups??a b-alanine supplemented group (b-ALG) and a Placebo group
(PLG)??using a matched pairs design based on body mass and whole body strength. Subject characteristics are shown
in Table 1.

Study design
The study was divided into four phases; familiarisation, pretesting, training and post testing. During the first phase,
subjects were familiarised with the various laboratory and resistance training techniques to be used. All exercise data,
body composition data and muscle biopsies were taken pre and post-training. During the training phase subjects were
exposed to both treatments (i.e. resistance training and supplementation).

Exercise testing
Subjects were tested both before and after training using three laboratory or gym based protocols. Whole body
strength (WBS) was assessed by performance of three gym lifts; box squat (BS??lower body), bench press (BP??upper
body) and deadlift (DL??upper + lower body). Subjects performed progressively heavier loads up to one repetition
maximum (1RM) with a minimum of 2 min rest between attempts. The BS was performed as per a free squat but
with subjects squatting onto a box set at a height resulting in a sub-parallel squat (i.e. with the hip-ending below the
level of the knee-joint). The tests were conducted in the order of BS, BP and DL. The cumulative total, of the three
1RM?s, was defined as WBS. Isokinetic force production (IFP) was assessed using an isokinetic dynometer (Kin
Com, Chattecx Co., Chattancoga, TN, USA). The subjects performed 90 isokinetic extensions of the knee from a
starting angle (shank relative femur) of 90, at an angular velocity of 180.s-1. Isokinetic force production of the
quadriceps muscle group was determined as the largestmagnitude force (isokinetic force) recorded during three
consecutive extensions. The flexion portion of each lift was passive. Finally an upper arm curl test (CT) was used to
determine fatigue resistance in the flexor muscles of the upper arm. After a suitable warm-up, subjects performed
one high repetition set within a target range of 20-40 reps, of single armed curls until momentary concentric fatigue
occurred. An appropriate load enabling 20-40 reps was determined during the familiarisation phase.
Subjects were required to arrive at the laboratory or gym in a well rested state having done no intensive or unaccustomed
exercise in the previous 24 h. Subjects were discouraged from drinking alcohol in the preceding 24 h or
drinking excessive amounts of coffee or other caffeine containing beverages. Whole body strength and IFP were
assessed on separate days at least 48 h apart. The CT was performed on the same day and prior to the IFP test. All
tests were carried out by the same investigator (IK).

 

[Wanderlei]

Supplementation protocol
b-ALG (n = 13) received 800 mg 8/day 4 weeks b-ala (CarnosynTM, NAI, San Marcos, CA, USA) supplied
as 800 mg in gelatine capsules, whilst PLG (n = 13) were given 800 mg maltodextrin again in capsule form and of
identical appearance. The study was conducted double blind.

Training
Both groups trained 4 days/week for a 10 week period. The aim of the training was to elicit an increase in both whole
body strength and muscle mass. Two sessions per week were upper body dominant and two were lower body
dominant (Table 2). All sessions were supervised by the same qualified instructor (IK), and comprised multiple
exercises performed over multiple sets, each set executed close to, or to concentric fatigue. Training was conducted in a progressive overload manner, striving to increase load
over time within the given repetition/set scheme for each lift.

Statistical analysis
Values are presented as means ? SD. Changes before and after training were compared within and between treatment
groups by means of t tests for both paired and unpaired observations. Significance was set at p B 0.05. To establish
the normality of the distribution of the data, in each case, the results were analysed for skewness and kurtosis and a
Kolmagaror?Smirev test was performed.

Results
Whole body strength
There was a significant increase in WBS (Fig. 1) from pre to post training in both b-ALG and PLG (261.92 ? 34.43?
312.50 ? 35.41 kg and 265.00 ? 29.88?311.35 ( 40.40 kg, respectively). However, there was no significant
difference in the change in WBS between b-ALG (+19.67 ? 5.53%) and PLG (+17.46 ? 6.37%), the absolute
changes being 50.58 ? 11.55 kg (p\0.001) vs. 46.35 ? 19.30 kg (p\0.001), respectively.

Isokinetic force production
There was a significant increase in IFP (Fig. 1) pre to post training in both b-ALG and PLG (569.77 ? 91.71?
637.46 9 101.93N and 537.69 ? 88.27?599.38 ? 76.89N, respectively). However, there was no significant
difference in the change in IFP between b-ALG (+12.11 ? 8.70%) and PLG (+12.55 ? 12.09%), the
absolute change being 67.69 ? 47.66N (p\0.001) vs. 61.69 ? 56.63N (p\0.01), respectively.

Upper arm curl test
There was a significant increase in CT (Fig. 1) performance pre to post training in both b-ALG and PLG
(25.15 ? 13.32?32.77 ? 14.63 repetitions, and 25.00 ? 12.10?31.69 ? 13.84 repetitions, respectively). However,
there was no significant difference in the change in CT between b-ALG (+35.65 ? 23.60%) and PLG
(+30.59 ? 24.24%), the absolute change being 7.62 ? 4.65 repetitions (p\0.001) vs. 6.69 ? 5.42 repetitions
(p\0.001), respectively.

Body composition
Mass (Fig. 1) was significantly increased posttraining by 2.06 ? 1.13 kg in b-ALG (+3.44 ? 1.93%) (p\0.001)
and by 2.27 ? 1.42 kg in PLG (+4.00 ? 2.69%) (p\0.001). There was no significant difference in the
change in mass between the two groups. There was no change in percentage of body fat in either group
posttraining.

Muscle biochemistry
M-[Carn] was significantly increased in b-ALG after the supplementation/training period (23.96 ? 5.94?36.77 ?
8.26 mmol.kg-1 dry muscle, respectively; mean change +12.81 ? 7.97 mmol.kg-1 dry muscle, p\0.001). There
were no significant changes in the PLG (29.17 ? 9.82? 27.29 ? 9.52 mmol.kg-1 dry muscle, mean change 1.87
( 3.36 mmol.kg-1 dry muscle, p[0.05) (Fig. 2). However, there are two subjects in the PLG that displayed unusually
high pre-M-[Carn] (43.94 and 48.3 l mmol.kg-1 dry muscle), despite reanalysis. These values would represent the
upper range for the post-M-[Carn] results in the b-ALG. Removing these outliers (indicated by an asterisk in Fig. 2)
the mean values for PLG become; 27.08 ? 6.37? 25.27 ? 6.13 mmol.kg-1 dry muscle with a mean change
1.81 ? 2.92 mmol.kg-1 dry muscle. However, there is still no statistically significant change pre?post in the PLG. Thedifference in the mean change in M-[Carn] between b-ALG
and PLG was highly significant (p\0.001).

So we clearly see the following:
-participants had began weight lifting at the start of the program, can you say "newbie gains"?

-both groups increased strength, mass, reps, etc.

-Those supplementing BA saw an increase muscle carnosine

What we see here is that for novices the lactic acid/H+ ion burn may not be a prime hinderance or limiting factor. Now if we saw a reduction with BA supplementation then the study might pose some interesting questions. But otherwise I think the results are to be expected. So once again we won't let one study disregard the vast body of research that exists.

 

[DeerDeer]

Why do I still take Beta-Alanine?

Real answer: because I bought the powder in bulk and will continue to use it until it's done.

Plus there are lots of ppl that swear by it. In fact, this is the first I've heard of anything against taking it.

Pleanty of negative has been said about it.

I discussed it at length here: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/91138-beta-alanine-overrated.html

 

[ono]

Hmm i bought some a few month back when i changed gyms. Sort of a kick up the arse if you like.

I initially thought the stuff was giving me great energy levels, but i haven't been taking it for the last 2 months and my energy levels haven't dipped, which leads me to the conclusion that maybe it was placebo effect.....for me anyway.

I found the tingling to be too much when i first started taking it. Like at times it was so painful i could hardly work out.

Anyway at the time i sued it i thought it was money well spent, but now i'm not totally convinced that it gave me anything......other than extreme tingles.

 

[Wanderlei]

BA is not an energy increaser per se. Your lifting routine will likely determine if you see any benefit from ba as well. For most it seems higher rep sets induce the "lactic acid burn" and there-in BA may help your endurance by allowing you to achieve more repetitions.