[sundevil04]

How do these two products compare in muscle building, side effects etc.

[Wanderlei]

I think it's too early to tell. We need to wait a couple months to see what the feedback is like with 3AD. On paper I think Havoc may be more potent in all categories.

[SilentBob187]

why vs? why not AND?

[nosnmiveins]

Originally Posted by SilentBob187

why vs? why not AND?

good point, would definitely be a good STACK

[BigBoy12]

I plan on stacking EPI and 3-AD - late fall

[myketest1]

could i stack 3ad with igf-2 and get good results on the lean mass side ? and nos ether

[joeflex73]

The most notable is Havoc is methylated and 3-AD is not. Ive seen a lot of people mention wanting to stack 3-AD and Havoc or 3-AD and Epi.

Still 5 weeks from my 3-AD cycle so...

[milwood]

3AD and Havoc or Epi sounds GOOD! Anyone think of reasons NOT to stack these?

[Wanderlei]

Originally Posted by milwood

3AD and Havoc or Epi sounds GOOD! Anyone think of reasons NOT to stack these?

As opposed to just using 3AD singularly? Obviously cost and SERM for PCT would be two factors. I also don't know if gains would be drmatically better than if you ran two seperate cycles. But you could certainly stack them from all appearances. It'll be interesting to see the results from the stack as compared to the standalone.

[john123131]

why does everyone feel the need to stack everything..lol.seems like a waste, could be 2 decent cycles instead.

[Manimalia]

Originally Posted by john123131

why does everyone feel the need to stack everything..lol.seems like a waste, could be 2 decent cycles instead.

yeah, truthfully stacking frightens me a tad. i get a bit nervous just using a stand-alone, due to possible problems we all know can occur.

[john123131]

Originally Posted by Manimalia

yeah, truthfully stacking frightens me a tad. i get a bit nervous just using a stand-alone, due to possible problems we all know can occur.

no doubt, most people dont realize the majority of PH users lose alot of their gains, when they could just as easily change their diet and training and gain some mass. I also say that cause most people using prohormones have no need to use them (havent even come close to reaching a plateau).

I tried Phera last year, had good results, but will probly never use anything again because I have had similar results naturally within the past 6 months of training, playing with diet, etc....with no worries of gyno, shutdown, etc.

[Big BAMA]

You mean there is no "Magic Pill". dadgumit. Guess I'll just have to work hard and eat right.

[macedaddy]

Originally Posted by SilentBob187

why vs? why not AND?

x2!

[Salem]

Originally Posted by john123131

no doubt, most people dont realize the majority of PH users lose alot of their gains, when they could just as easily change their diet and training and gain some mass. I also say that cause most people using prohormones have no need to use them (havent even come close to reaching a plateau).

I tried Phera last year, had good results, but will probly never use anything again because I have had similar results naturally within the past 6 months of training, playing with diet, etc....with no worries of gyno, shutdown, etc.

totally agree with what you said. By reading the simple feedback all the time, such as " gain 5lbs," or " amazing 15lbs", I doubt how much the "gain" will finally last after half year finishing the PCT and how much is lean tissue. Prohormone should not be considered a shortcut for a idea body without proper training and diet.