3ad vs MMv2

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    3ad vs MMv2


    Ok I know 3ad as a few extra ingredients but from what i can tell these 2 have the same main muscle building agent in them except legal gear has more per capsule right? So why is 3ad selling for almost triple the price? I ran a cycle of MMv2 and loved it but I just really can't tell much of a difference between these two products. Im not tryin to say anything negative about AX cause i've used there whole line of products and everything worked like it said it did. But could someone please explain this to me.

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    how was it on the libido any other sides
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike3107 View Post
    Ok I know 3ad as a few extra ingredients but from what i can tell these 2 have the same main muscle building agent in them except legal gear has more per capsule right? So why is 3ad selling for almost triple the price? I ran a cycle of MMv2 and loved it but I just really can't tell much of a difference between these two products. Im not tryin to say anything negative about AX cause i've used there whole line of products and everything worked like it said it did. But could someone please explain this to me.

    Im sure the 2ad in it was probably expensive to source seing as how noone else has it, so just one company getting it sourced at first was probly hefty! 1-androsterone and 4 androsterone along with the other androsterones are expensive for raws as well which is probly why.
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    Well the 2-ad in it, mike 3107, is unmethylated pheraplex which will yield more size and str gains than the mmv2 ingredient alone. You are also forgetting the other ingredients in 3-ad that were added for synergism. Check out the logs my friend. If you want to put on some size and gain str 'safely' as compared to other designers that are methylated, then 3ad is your new best friend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT View Post
    Im sure the 2ad in it was probably expensive to source seing as how noone else has it, so just one company getting it sourced at first was probly hefty! 1-androsterone and 4 androsterone along with the other androsterones are expensive for raws as well which is probly why.
    you have done both, can you compare results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    you have done both, can you compare results.

    Sure.. 3-ad was more of a mass compound, while it didnt pack on any lbs because i was cutting it definately kept my muscle intact.. MMV2 was better for strength and aggression but i beleive thats because of more androsterone percap then 3-ad. 3-ad had better mind feeling to it which i would attribute to the picamillon. I also would sweat more on 3-ad, vascularity was up a very good amount on both compounds.

    Both are great in there own right!
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    Quote Originally Posted by The G Train View Post
    Well the 2-ad in it, mike 3107, is unmethylated pheraplex which will yield more size and str gains than the mmv2 ingredient alone. You are also forgetting the other ingredients in 3-ad that were added for synergism. Check out the logs my friend. If you want to put on some size and gain str 'safely' as compared to other designers that are methylated, then 3ad is your new best friend.
    How are you drawing your conclusion that 2-ad is superior to androsterone? Are you basing this off the results from madol and comparing accordingly or do you have specific A/A figures?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT View Post
    Sure.. 3-ad was more of a mass compound, while it didnt pack on any lbs because i was cutting it definately kept my muscle intact.. MMV2 was better for strength and aggression but i beleive thats because of more androsterone percap then 3-ad. 3-ad had better mind feeling to it which i would attribute to the picamillon. I also would swear more on 3-ad, vascularity was up a very good amount on both compounds.

    Both are great in there own right!
    thanks, cant wait to try mmv2, at under $40 for 90 caps its a no brainer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ersatz View Post
    How are you drawing your conclusion that 2-ad is superior to androsterone? Are you basing this off the results from madol and comparing accordingly or do you have specific A/A figures?
    I didn't say it was superior, I said that the inclusion of 2-ad makes it a better product overall. I didn't mean to compare substances.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The G Train View Post
    Well the 2-ad in it, mike 3107, is unmethylated pheraplex which will yield more size and str gains than the mmv2 ingredient alone. You are also forgetting the other ingredients in 3-ad that were added for synergism. Check out the logs my friend. If you want to put on some size and gain str 'safely' as compared to other designers that are methylated, then 3ad is your new best friend.

    "2-Androstenol has demonstrated a strong ability to increase aggression, enhance the alpha-male attitude, and increase secretion of luteinizing hormone." Im not so sure that this is the ingredient indtended for mass gains according to the write up on the product. Sounds like it is more for aggression and extra workout intesity. Im not saying it's a bad product, Im just don't see much of a difference between the 2 products except mmv2 has more of the active.
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    From an AX rep on bb.com
    Quote Originally Posted by Adawg4929 View Post
    When removing the methyl from P-Plex is looses its Anabolic/Androgenic properties. 2-androstenol was included as a pheramone to increase mental drive, aggression and Alpha Male Mentality.

    The main driving force behind 3-AD is the androsterone and 11-Alpha. Androsterone converts into Stanalone which is 400% more pro-hypertrophic then testosterone. 11-Alpha and Stanalone will kick start protein synthesis to produce fierce strength gains, muscle hardening and increased Lean Mass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderlei View Post
    From an AX rep on bb.com
    This is wrong. I asked for clarification from both Sldge and PA. So far only PA has answered. This is what he said:

    "OK, this is how it really is. Androsterone is a two step precursor of DHT. It is highly susceptible to irreversible liver first pass conjugation which inactivates it. So its not a great prohormone.

    ...(I edited out the part about the ecdysterone)

    So we are left with 2-androstenol. The fact about this stuff is by injection it is rated as 200% as anabolic as testosterone. Unfortunately taken orally it is 0% as anabolic as testosterone. Why is that? Well if you ever played around with the stuff you will see that its physical properties are very strange. it is fluffy like fiberglass and it seems to absorb water and expand like a fiber. It is very poorly soluble in most everything. So a very sensible conclusion is that its horrible oral bioavailability is due to its inability to absorb through the intestine. Essentially, it acts like a fiber

    Now an interesting thing about 2-androstenol is that it has a very high resistance to oxidation to a 17-keto steroid by 17b-HSD - much higher than any other known unmethylated steroid. So the potential for high oral bioavailability is there, that is if you can get it past the intestine

    This is where the acetate comes in. When you add an acetate you completely change the physical properties of 2-androstenol. Suddenly it becames very lipid soluble. And lipid soluble substances can pass through the intestine with relative ease by diffusion. So there is potential for this stuff."


    I believe that the person who said that removing the methyl abolishes anabolic/androgenic activity is basically just regurgitating what the write-up for 3-AD says and doesn't quite understand the compound in question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The G Train View Post
    I didn't say it was superior, I said that the inclusion of 2-ad makes it a better product overall. I didn't mean to compare substances.
    WTF, one connotes the other! Superior and better are synonyms for god's sake!! Be cautious of making statements that one product is better than another because you are drawing comparisons. What metrics you are making this decision upon?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tilerbreaker View Post
    This is wrong. I asked for clarification from both Sldge and PA. So far only PA has answered. This is what he said:

    "OK, this is how it really is. Androsterone is a two step precursor of DHT. It is highly susceptible to irreversible liver first pass conjugation which inactivates it. So its not a great prohormone.

    ...(I edited out the part about the ecdysterone)

    So we are left with 2-androstenol. The fact about this stuff is by injection it is rated as 200% as anabolic as testosterone. Unfortunately taken orally it is 0% as anabolic as testosterone. Why is that? Well if you ever played around with the stuff you will see that its physical properties are very strange. it is fluffy like fiberglass and it seems to absorb water and expand like a fiber. It is very poorly soluble in most everything. So a very sensible conclusion is that its horrible oral bioavailability is due to its inability to absorb through the intestine. Essentially, it acts like a fiber

    Now an interesting thing about 2-androstenol is that it has a very high resistance to oxidation to a 17-keto steroid by 17b-HSD - much higher than any other known unmethylated steroid. So the potential for high oral bioavailability is there, that is if you can get it past the intestine

    This is where the acetate comes in. When you add an acetate you completely change the physical properties of 2-androstenol. Suddenly it becames very lipid soluble. And lipid soluble substances can pass through the intestine with relative ease by diffusion. So there is potential for this stuff."


    I believe that the person who said that removing the methyl abolishes anabolic/androgenic activity is basically just regurgitating what the write-up for 3-AD says and doesn't quite understand the compound in question.
    Evidently this person has no idea what they are talking about. I read the 2-androstenol.com ad-copy and no where does it make mention of c17aa removal coincides with A/A nullification. Parroting is one thing but to dispel misinformation is egregious and by a company rep no less.

    When whomever is stating that the acetate completely changes physical properties they mean in the context of solubility only?
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    2-Androstenol.com

    The write up on 3-AD. Works cited at the bottom of the page as well.
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    ill be stacking them both soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by ersatz View Post
    Evidently this person has no idea what they are talking about. I read the 2-androstenol.com ad-copy and no where does it make mention of c17aa removal coincides with A/A nullification. Parroting is one thing but to dispel misinformation is egregious and by a company rep no less.

    When whomever is stating that the acetate completely changes physical properties they mean in the context of solubility only?

    Agreed. I was pretty surprised...to the point where I posted on it 3 times to get PA's response. I also hoped by doing so it would stop the spread of that kind of misinformation. People thinking that 2-androstenol is just there to give a 'good, aggressive' feeling -- might change the way they use it. In reality if 2-androstenol acetate works like they think it will, it's likely that this will be active and a major contributor to the anabolic/androgenic properties of 3-AD.
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    adawg is a BRAND NEW rep and was barely briefed on the compound, so cut him some slack. He WAS going off the write-up that was provided for us............
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    Quote Originally Posted by macedaddy View Post
    adawg is a BRAND NEW rep and was barely briefed on the compound, so cut him some slack. He WAS going off the write-up that was provided for us............
    That's what I figured and if you look at any of my posts I never called him out by name or said anything about his ability to rep for the company. All I wanted was to make sure I understood what the compound is (before I use it) and make sure everyone else got the right info. Not trying to start sh^t...just doing my research and hoping all the right info is there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tilerbreaker View Post
    That's what I figured and if you look at any of my posts I never called him out by name or said anything about his ability to rep for the company. All I wanted was to make sure I understood what the compound is (before I use it) and make sure everyone else got the right info. Not trying to start sh^t...just doing my research and hoping all the right info is there.
    you SHOULD do your research! i totally support that. All the info is in the write-up and the included research studies on that 2-ad site.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macedaddy View Post
    you SHOULD do your research! i totally support that. All the info is in the write-up and the included research studies on that 2-ad site.
    Well, there's also quite a bit of good info coming from discussions involving Sldge and PA on that other board. I think one problem is people relying on company write ups (this applies to all companies...not singling anyone out here). The language is meant to appeal (in my opinion) to people that don't have much experience and want to feel like because they've read and understood (maybe) some of the surface level science presented, they've got a firm grasp on what's going on.

    I'll freely admit that I'm pretty new to the boards and to PH/PS use in general, but I've got a firm grasp on the world of science (Ph.D. in cell biology), so I feel like, for me, write-ups are never enough and it's much more helpful to hear about a product from its designer or someone who has deep roots in the supplement industry. But thats part of what makes these boards great...you can actually communicate with these people and learn from them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tilerbreaker View Post
    Well, there's also quite a bit of good info coming from discussions involving Sldge and PA on that other board. I think one problem is people relying on company write ups (this applies to all companies...not singling anyone out here). The language is meant to appeal (in my opinion) to people that don't have much experience and want to feel like because they've read and understood (maybe) some of the surface level science presented, they've got a firm grasp on what's going on.

    I'll freely admit that I'm pretty new to the boards and to PH/PS use in general, but I've got a firm grasp on the world of science (Ph.D. in cell biology), so I feel like, for me, write-ups are never enough and it's much more helpful to hear about a product from its designer or someone who has deep roots in the supplement industry. But thats part of what makes these boards great...you can actually communicate with these people and learn from them.
    no one knows the product like the formulator those are good convos to be a part of.........
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    Ok so just to confirm mmv2 and 3ad do have the same active right? Or at least the same main ingrediant intended for mass? Cause 2-ad seems like even if it is orally active the main purpose is to provide agression and alpha male mentality.
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    they have one commonality............androst erone............that is the only similarity.

    We have other stuff added to promote anabolism (not even sure if thats a word) in the body. seems that alot of people are using MMv2 to cut. 3-ad is geared more for a bulk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macedaddy View Post
    they have one commonality............androst erone............that is the only similarity.

    We have other stuff added to promote anabolism (not even sure if thats a word) in the body. seems that alot of people are using MMv2 to cut. 3-ad is geared more for a bulk.
    Thank you Mace. I will probably get a bottle once the price goes down a little bit and see for myself. None of AX's products have ever let me down so im hoping for 3-AD to be another winner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike3107 View Post
    ... 2-ad seems like even if it is orally active the main purpose is to provide agression and alpha male mentality.
    Not true, but whatever...

    (This has been discussed by both Sldge (M. Cahill, the designer) and Patrick Arnold on multiple threads on another forum...you should do some more searching...PM if you want quotes or links...)

    Edit: You could even look at post #12 on this thread...it pretty much spells it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside Backer View Post
    ill be stacking them both soon
    this is exactly what i was thinking. too bad i am in the middle of pct, cause i'm going to have to wait a while.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tilerbreaker View Post
    Not true, but whatever...

    (This has been discussed by both Sldge (M. Cahill, the designer) and Patrick Arnold on multiple threads on another forum...you should do some more searching...PM if you want quotes or links...)

    Edit: You could even look at post #12 on this thread...it pretty much spells it out.
    Im just going by the write up of the product bro. I figure the people who created and tested the product would know what the purpose of each ingrediant were better than anyone. Im not going to debate this any further im just going to try the product out myself and let you guys know how it goes.
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    How does it compare to super drol?
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    Wait so are you saying 3-ad will provide greater gains than superdrol? I understand the less side effects do to the non-methyl, but you think it can really stand up to superdrol in lbm gains?
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