[280zxturbo]

Please advise: I am 46, 175, 5' 11", b/f approx. 28%

Would like to gain muscle mass and reduce body fat.

Current supplements: whey protein, NO2, and creatine

Newbie to prohormones-- information overload.

Want to increase libido and testosterone levels.

No bad side effects, ie hair loss, liver damage etc.

What are your suggestions for pre and post cycle?

[Palo Alto Labs]

Stick with food, rest, exercise, and the basics for a while. At 28% you might be just getting into lifting... now would not be the tiime to stress your joints, bones, and health for a quick fix me up.

prohormones are steroids, end of story..

Id stick with natural as long as possible... prohormones are most benifitial when your body is already a fortress.

[280zxturbo]

When I am in better shape and have been lifting for a while, what would you suggest?

[Cellardude]

Originally Posted by 280zxturbo

When I am in better shape and have been lifting for a while, what would you suggest?

we'll suggest things when you get there

I wouldnt mess with prohormones if your fat and out of shape. The fact that prohormones can affect the heart, increase your blood pressure and all is enough to wander away from it. At 175 pounds and 28 body fat, I wouldnt really play with hormones. Not needed at all, I added about 25 pounds of mass naturally under a year with some fat gains on a bulk. Overall gains were like 45-50 of mass,(fat and lean mass)

It's not that hard, you just have to put an effort into it.Being dependant on gains coming from prohormones makes you rely on them when you need to add mass. Any idiot can add mass on prohormones, heck any retard can add 5 pounds on superdrol without changing their diet, its keeping those gains consistant and knowing how to keep your body healthy by cyling off thats important. Becoming dependant on prohormones can make you potentially abuse them due to the fact that they are pretty strong phychological drugs. (they make you look big when your on, and you flatten out a bit when your off)

If you dont know how to train naturally, you'll depend on them, and you'll probably use them too often if not all the time, which will cause problems down the road.

[Rugger]

No drugie until you in shapie

[Cellardude]

Originally Posted by 280zxturbo

Please advise: I am 46, 175, 5' 11", b/f approx. 28%

Would like to gain muscle mass and reduce body fat.

Current supplements: whey protein, NO2, and creatine

Newbie to prohormones-- information overload.

Want to increase libido and testosterone levels.

No bad side effects, ie hair loss, liver damage etc.

What are your suggestions for pre and post cycle?

not to be rude, but there is no miracle drug to make fat people and muscular. Thats just the truth, most steroids have sides, depending on the person, even light prohormones can have some crazy sides on you. Ive heard of epi being pretty harsh on certian people, agian, no miracle drug with no sides and liver damage that gets you big like mones. sorry.

[krazy]

Man, SOO much can be done with a long term regimen of proper diet and exercise. You can seriously become pretty god damn impressive looking by doing that for a while. Its only once you do this for a long time and hit a wall you should consider supplementing.

Get your diet right (calculate your BMR and daily required caloric intake and all that). Eat good ratios of protein/carbs/fat (this will be very specific to your body, even) and lift hard and with intensity everytime you go workout.

Get into that routine for about 4-6 months before you consider supplementing ANYTHING. Forget about prohormones or steroids for seriously about 2 years. If you can maintain this for 2 years, Id say you're ready for steroids and prohoromes. And you better be researching for a good year before even starting that.

If anything, you might be able to supplement with fat burners this early in the game to get your BF down some. But, that should only be short term and in combination with what I said above to slim you down.

Food, exercise, BCAAs. Thats all you need.

EDIT - At 46, you may consider seeing an anti-aging/endocrinologist about your (likely) naturally declining T levels. Do this therapeutically, dont go the steroid route yet, though. I, myself, am about to start a TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) protocol and this is after about 2-3 months of researching about 3-4 hours a day to learn about this all first. Find a good doc (Im driving 7 hours for one) because most suck. This can all be learned in the Male Anti-Aging Health forum here. But definitely dont think about doing cycles. Meso forum will help with learning alot, too.

[sizzzle9]

i am not an expert. but it doesnt take an expert to tell that if u have the body fat that u say... u need to drop that drastically before considering somehting like this. the gains after ur cut (if u decide to take the PH) would be much more better if u cut the bf down

[280zxturbo]

Thanks for info!!!! Just curious, if I was in shape..... What would you suggest?

[Cellardude]

Originally Posted by 280zxturbo

Thanks for info!!!! Just curious, if I was in shape..... What would you suggest?

I wouldnt suggest anything until you train anything naturally for a year at least. Come back in a few months and im sure the members will give you some suggestions.

You keep asking this question as if your going to run this anyway reguardless of what we say. Im not trying to judge you, I just see it go on a lot in the forum. You let someone know too much info who for some reason keeps wanting to find out info, and they go do it anyway eventhough they said they wanted to "learn"

[jonny21]

Originally Posted by 280zxturbo

Thanks for info!!!! Just curious, if I was in shape..... What would you suggest?

bb.com

[Cellardude]

Originally Posted by jonny21

bb.com

ROFL

[280zxturbo]

No, I have a full head of hair and have decent t levels(wife says) and no breast. I came across this site today because someone mentioned havoc to me and I wanted to educate myself. I am glad most recommend natural workouts. Thanks again for your honesty.

[sizzzle9]

ya man i was lookin at starting a ph but i posted on this site before.. i was glad. they got all over it right away and told me otherwise. Stick with diet and ur supps right now diet is key

[Cellardude]

Originally Posted by sizzzle9

ya man i was lookin at starting a ph but i posted on this site before.. i was glad. they got all over it right away and told me otherwise. Stick with diet and ur supps right now diet is key

thats why i love these forums. they help you with your goals because people here have lots of experience. It never stops to amazes me when I see the progress that Ive done in the past few months. All natural, All bulk style :] yum

[280zxturbo]

What over the counter supp. do you recommend? Am I on the right track with the original post? Should I make any changes?
Thanks in advance!