Testosterone from Herbs. Dosing? Timing?
- 04-11-2008, 12:46 PM
Testosterone from Herbs. Dosing? Timing?
HERE IS THE LIST OF MY SUPPLEMENTS AND THE PURPOSE I USE THEM FOR
OPTIMEN 2 TABS/DAY
CO Q10 100mg 1CAP/DAY
ALA 100 1CAP/DAY
ALCAR 500/ALA 300 1CAP/DAY
JOINT MATRIX 3CAPS/DAY
FISH OIL 3GELS/DAY
BACOPA MONIERI 3 X 500 MG (20% extract)
ROSEMARY 1 X 500 MG (6% rosemaric acid)
RHODIOLA ROSEA 2 X 500 MG ( 3% rosavinis)
GOTU KOLA 100 MG (10% asiaticosides)
370 MG AERIAL PARTS
SYNEPRINE 2 X 20 MG
MELATONIN 3 mg. PRE WORKOUT/SLEEP
ZMA 3 CAPS/PRE SLEEP
Beta Sistostorol, Pygeum, Saw Palmeto,
Campestirol, Stigmaterol, Isoflavones, Zinc, Pumkin Seed
BUCHU LEAF 300mg,
UVA URSI 300mg &
JUIPER BERRY split doses daily.
AMERICAN GINSENG 100MG/ 2 X DAY
KOREAN GINSENG 100MG/
EUTHERTO ROOT 100MG COMBO
VITEX 300MG/DONG QUAI 150MG PRE BED
6 WEEKS ON/6 WEEKS OFF
MUIRA PUAMA 12:1 2 x 400 mg
5 on/2 off
ICARIN 50% 2 x 300 mg
DAMIANA LEAVES 2 x 500 mg (Leaf)
NARINGIN FRUIT 1 x 500 mg
AVENA SATIVA 10:1 3 x 600 mg
CATUBA 4:1 3 x 500 mg
FORSKOLIN 20% 2 x 280 mg
ECDYSTERONE 94% 2 x 280 mg
MACA 4:1 3 x 650 mg
ASHWAGANDA 5% 2 x 450 mg
TONGKAT ALI 50:1 2 x 330 mg
5 ON/2 OFF (8 weeks on/ 2 weeks off)
TRIBULUS 60% SAPONIS 500 MG X 3/DAY
5 ON/2 OFF (8 weeks on/ 2 weeks off)
TESTOFEN 50% 2 x 700 mg
ANTI ESTROGEN ATD 25 MG PRE SLEEP
Besides that, my goal is to stay lean and gain some muscle. I am 6'6" and about 220lbs. My Bf was 8% last month & I hope to keep it low.
I have only used one pro-hormone in my life. It was DHEA at 25-50 mg's. It was a mystake anyways.
Other than that my workout supps are: Whey, Casein, BCAA, Waxy Maize, Glutamine, Vitamin C, HMB, CEE + DiCreatine Citrate, and a pre workout NO product like "Superpump 250, No-Shotgun, No Explode..."
This is pretty much the list of the supplements that I have. I use almost all of them, but I am not really sure how this all works together.
Do you guys have any advice on dosing, cycling of these supplements. Should I add/remove anything from this list?
Thanks Guys for your input.
- 04-11-2008, 12:53 PM
04-11-2008, 01:16 PM
04-11-2008, 07:51 PM
04-11-2008, 08:48 PM
Stefang, why was DHEA a mistake? Did you not find that it had pro libido effects? What herb would you advise to boost the blood flow in the pelvian area? My erections are weak, due to an DHT inhibitor I take against hairloss.
As to your own regimen, I do not know most of the products (commercial names you take) but I wonder what the real overall balance is:
1) regarding vitamins
2) regarding aminoacids.
Among the things I take and you do not: green tea, MSM, gingko, brewer's yeast, spirulina. Unless these are contained in the brandnames you take.
04-11-2008, 09:38 PM
Well, when I took dhea, I was only 19, and I had plenty of it naturally. I did not really now how it worked. I only used little bit, but i did get some sides from it, such as little hair loss on top of my scalp, and perhaps a very slim gyno. Since DHEA converts to almost every other hormone. Now days I could use it with safety, by using some anti-estrogens and DHT blockers.
Anyways, MSM is in my joint matrix. Gingko is in the OPTI-Men
Well a lot of them are herbs, which I researched and basically put together instead of buying those products like Drive, RPM...
(Icariin (50% extract), Forslean (20%), Naringin (98% Extract), ...)
I made this stack two weeks ago, and I am just looking for some advice regarding stacking and dosing. I don't want to overdo it, and it seems that I might be.
Overall I feel great on these supplements. I am leaning out at about 6.4% bf right now, and my strength went up and I am able to maintain pretty much all my muscle.
However, I don't know how much of a shutdown I am going to experience. My libido is up there, although ATD does lower it for sure, but all the herbs do the reverse.
As far as herbs that increase blood flow:
Ginkgo. This herb's stimulant power is said to have ancient mystical roots - its extract comes from the world's most ancient tree species. Ginkgo biloba has been used by the Chinese for thousands of years to treat asthma and coughs - a use supported by recent reports in the British medical journal, Lancet, that the herb has antihistamine properties. A standardized extract of ginkgo leaves containing the active ingredient, heterosides, has been shown to benefit circulation and immune function.
Today cayenne is used worldwide to treat a variety of health conditions, including poor circulation, weak digestion, heart disease, chronic pain, sore throats, headaches and toothache.
Ginger. The Chinese have used ginger for thousands of years, both as a flavoring and as an herbal remedy. Ginger contains several volatile oils that may be the source of its mild stimulant effects on circulation.
OPCs—Grapeseed extract and Pycnogenol both contain compounds known as OPCs that significantly help to strengthen the collagen fibers that form arterial walls.
Silica—This mineral compound of silcon dioxide gives arterial walls elasticity.
Gotu Kola—Helps strengthen the connective tissue of veins.
Horse Chestnut—The aescin content of this herb tones veins and makes them less permeable.
Nattozime—A natural enzyme that promotes circulatory function.
Garlic—Helps keep blood flowing through arteries.
Lecithin—Emulsifies (breaks up) fats in the blood.
Arginine also boost blood flow.
And lastly the most natural way:
Exercise—This is still one of the best ways to keep arteries healthy and blood flowing.
Liquids—Drink plenty of liquids with a preference for distilled water and herbal teas.
Massage—A fifteen minute massage with jojoba oil infused with essential oils of rosemary, sage, or juniper really gets the circulation going.
Manage Stress—Stress constricts the blood vessels. Vow to manage stress by whatever means it takes. Deep breathing exercises and learning to view life with a deep sense of appreciation have worked well for many individuals. Check out books on stress at your local bookstore or library.
Hope this helps.
04-11-2008, 10:41 PM
You seem to be pretty knowledgeable about this stuff. I'm 17 and I got some low-dose caps of DHEA at Walmart for a very low price and would like some advice about it. I've been taking the DHEA at 25mg in the morning and 25mg at a little after noon. I've been doing this because I was under the impression that estrogen production spikes at the end of the day, and testosterone spikes at the beginning of the day. Therefore, by taking the precursor to both testosterone and estrogen when testosterone production spikes, I promote maximal testosterone production with minimal estrogen. I like how DHEA makes me feel, I feel much more confident and focused. This leads me to believe I have naturally low testosterone production.
What advice do you have on the DHEA? Should I be taking it? Would something else like forskolin or some testosterone booster be more beneficial?
04-11-2008, 10:47 PM
04-12-2008, 03:18 AM
You are wayy too young for DHEA. It is a pro-hormone, and even on the bottle it probably says don't use under 21.
You don't even need any testosterone booster, just train hard, eat lots and clean and make sure to get enough sleep. I mean using creatine, protein and some BCAA's might be really all you need.
But if you really want something just try some basic herbal test booster likerive, RPM or Tribex..., but I would definetely stay away from pro-hormones until you are at least 21. This will keep you safe from side effects. I would not bet on luck, since for some people DHEA does not cause any sides at high doses, yet for others 25mg is enough to loose hair and get gyno.
04-12-2008, 08:33 AM
I'm here out of sheer curiosity. I have taken mountains of separate herbs at once and I'd like to see what has worked for you as far as herb combinations. What do you notice from the water control supps? I think setting up your base supplements first eg. Multi, Vit. C, digestive enzymes, CoQ10 and then adding the herbal combos for certain periods of time may keep the confusion down. I do what you do as far as making most of my combos.
It's hard with so much good stuff out there. I've been looking for a way to keep all of the supplement containers to a minimum. I am going to start a bulk ingredients recipes thread in the Nutraplanet section to get some feedback on this.
Oh by the way, good research, it's very informative.
04-12-2008, 11:09 AM
BUCHU LEAF 300mg,
UVA URSI 300mg &
JUIPER BERRY split doses daily.
This supplements work pretty well. At first they gave me the ****ts, but after two days my body was used to them. I don't take much at once, and they help me to minimize the puffy look and get rid of excess water. I still take creatine, so I am sure that I retain some water, but for the most part they help me regulate it.
You can probably see UVA URSI in almost every water loss product fro the major brands.
I agree with you, I think that I now the supplements that work well for me, so I think that I will cut off most of the new herbs/test boosters and try to add them one by one.
Thats a great idea.
04-12-2008, 12:29 PM
I've been training for 5 years, 2 years seriously. I'm not concerned with gaining benefits in the gym or anything. I can bench near 300 lbs, squat and deadlift almost 400 lbs. The DHEA or any suggested herbal testosterone booster is purely for confidence, vigor, and mood elevation.
And also, Drive seems like an awesome supplement, but is a little expensive. I'd like to know some of the main herbal remedies contained in supplements like Drive and RPM which would be most effective purely for testosterone boosting standalone. FYI, I'm interested in Coleus forskholli, nettle root, and fenugreek and am currently doing research on them, but am having problems finding substantial anecdotal evidence of their efficacy.
04-13-2008, 09:58 AM
04-13-2008, 11:46 AM
Oh by the way, I think I've decided on some NOW Fenugreek, NOW Adam, and bump fishoil intake to about 10g/day. How does this sound?
Couldn't find enough convincing evidence about Coleus, and ADAM has some nettle and tons of other awesome things in it.
04-13-2008, 12:05 PM
You seem to like bulks. You might want:
bulk fenugreek (Fenugreek Powder 50% (100 grams) By: NutraPlanet )
Bulk Icariin (Icariin 50% powder (50 grams) By: NutraPlanet)
Horny Mack Jack Stack (Horny Mack Jack Stack (combo pack) By: NutraPlanet ).
These 3 should help with your testosterone and libido.
Also Coleus has a fair bit of research to it, and it is being used in many of the most popular and recent supplements (Recreate, Drive, Burned, Amp2, AxisHT etc) so you might want to pick up the small 30g for $13 (Coleus Forskholii (20%) (30 grams) By: NutraPlanet) which will last you a long time considering you only need 60-100 mg/day of the actives.
04-13-2008, 01:04 PM
DHEA,prohormones and some OTC anti estrogens can put your own endogenous hormone profile out of sync if you do not know what you are dealing with up front. there is little/no danger with any of the aforementioned herbs but its the mindset of "fixing oneself" without a qualified professionals help that can lead to serious complications down the line. do not underestimate the importance of getting plenty of MUFA(monounsaturated fats) and saturated fats in your diet for optimal natural testosterone production. also,be sure to get plenty of zinc and magnesium,get plenty of rest and limit stress as much as possible....do these things and i am VERY confident you will see a noticeable boost in natural test production.
04-13-2008, 01:50 PM
What's your opinion on the male virility ingredients in ADAM? Are they underdosed or just not effective in the first place?
04-13-2008, 11:13 PM
NTRLMUSCLE, do you think tribulus terrestris or muira puama can whack the hormonal system or shut down the endogenous production of T? I have been taking finasteride for many years to prevent hairloss and I developped a little gyno and my libido has dropped. I tried Dhea 2 years ago to boost it and found it quite effective. I did not carry on though. What would be the most effective/safest between tribulus and muira puama? Could 7Keto DHEA be an option too?
04-14-2008, 12:05 AM
neither tribulus nor muira puama will affect your own hormonal system,so no worries there. 7-keto DHEA does not convert into any of the sex hormones but will likely increase thyroid activity and lower cortisol. for those that truly feel they are deficient in T, there is no substitute for having the appropriate labs run. the endocrine system is such a complex system, many of the hormones are linked/tied into one another that trying to simply guess where the problem lies will simply be a crapshoot
04-14-2008, 12:07 AM
[QUOTE=goslamacamel;1305776]Yeah I love bulks, and I've considered all of those suggestions. Except the mac jack stack, because I considered that more for libido potentiation, and I have plenty of libido. QUOTE]
so am i reading this correct? you are 17yrs old, 5'11" 197lbs and a great libido.....how do you figure you have "naturally low testosterone",lol?
04-14-2008, 02:00 AM
[QUOTE=brm;1306617]STEFANG, the problem with your regimen is that it is so heavy that you won't sustain such a chore over the years. My own regimen is substantial and I feel tired with it as time passes though I think it is profitable.
This is the first month that I added all those extra test boosters. Before than I just had a simple tribulus combination. I agree with you on this being little too much. Once I finish what I have, I am gonna to cut everything to at least a half and start from there one by one.
04-14-2008, 12:46 PM
I have pubertal gyno (or puffy nipples, if that's different), lack of aggression, and very thin hair, especially armpit hair. When I tried Leviathan a while back, I felt awesome (confidence boost, healthy aggression, lack of anxiety). These things lead me to believe I have low natural testosterone production.
Oh yeah, I'm scotch-irish, case-in-point.
04-14-2008, 02:04 PM
High estrogen can also crush libido, as will overly-low estrogen.
Libido is a great indication of one's natural hormone profile. When there are noticeable changes, one can assume their profile is out of wack.
04-14-2008, 04:34 PM
04-14-2008, 07:59 PM
PS...and as someone already mentioned, women get their libido from testosterone as well. it is not the only hormone involved,but it is one of the best indicators
04-14-2008, 10:19 PM
Ok, hopefully that's done with. So what are people's opinions on ADAM's ingredients? Underdosed? If not, I'm getting the 120 ct. on my next staple order.
04-14-2008, 11:39 PM
Personally...I just bought some of Now's ADAM and I think it looks underdosed compared to other multi's like MST's MVP/ZMK combo. I'm taking the recommended 2 tabs pd, but I might look into it more...at the least I will probably add in more ZMK again and spread it out through the day. I've heard nothing but good things about ADAM though.
04-15-2008, 12:45 PM
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