Is Casein worth it? Will this debate rage on forever?

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    Is Casein worth it? Will this debate rage on forever?


    So is Casein worth the price difference? Is it actually good to have protein in your stomach throughout the night or is it better for you to have an empty stomach during the night? Will Milk+Whey+fiber+EVOO basically do the same thing?

    Will all these questions, and more, be debated forever?

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    yes.
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    Yep, the price isnt that much more and you only really need fast digesting protein (whey) post workout.
    Casein should be a staple for protein powder when dieting.
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    I think whey protein is over rated. I love Muscle milk which is a combo of Whey & Casein. I believe whey is great post workout but having a slow digesting protein like Casein in your
    is the best because you constantly get aminos released to your muscles between meals. That's why I love muscle milk...gained 15 lbs of muscle since I started using it and receive huge pumps and amazing recovery....never get lactic acid build up anymore, ready to go again next day!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNinja View Post
    So is Casein worth the price difference? Is it actually good to have protein in your stomach throughout the night or is it better for you to have an empty stomach during the night? Will Milk+Whey+fiber+EVOO basically do the same thing?
    Course it is.

    I will buy Casein for one simple reason - it doesnt cause bloating. Heck that itself is a million buck thing. Imagine taking whey protein shake at work as in between meal replacement and feeling gaseous. Worst feeling ever. Casein never has that feeling. Plus it definitely is great as pre-bed protein, much ahead of Whey.

    If only Casein wont be as chalky as it often is I would chug whey for most part.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    Course it is.

    I will buy Casein for one simple reason - it doesnt cause bloating. Heck that itself is a million buck thing. Imagine taking whey protein shake at work as in between meal replacement and feeling gaseous. Worst feeling ever. Casein never has that feeling. Plus it definitely is great as pre-bed protein, much ahead of Whey.

    If only Casein wont be as chalky as it often is I would chug whey for most part.
    I drink Whey almost every afternoon. Usually with oats, milk, and EVOO. Most of the time I don't have bloating or gaseous feeling...most of the time that is. Perhaps I'll grab a 5lber and try it. Worst case, I'll just blend it with my whey for a super protein
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNinja View Post
    I drink Whey almost every afternoon. Usually with oats, milk, and EVOO. Most of the time I don't have bloating or gaseous feeling...most of the time that is. Perhaps I'll grab a 5lber and try it. Worst case, I'll just blend it with my whey for a super protein
    Thats probably because you are doing an entire meal there. Nothing wrong really, in fact quite good if you are looking for bulking up. I personally cant do it due to work reasons.

    Plus of course we are different so if it works for you all power to you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saurabh View Post
    Thats probably because you are doing an entire meal there. Nothing wrong really, in fact quite good if you are looking for bulking up. I personally cant do it due to work reasons.

    Plus of course we are different so if it works for you all power to you.
    That's true...the oats and evoo slow digestion I'm sure. I do hear what you're saying about bloating though. If I take too much whey post workout with dextrose/malto/WMS I either get bloating or I have to run to the bathroom real quick like.

    Thanks for the feedback everyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNinja View Post
    So is Casein worth the price difference? Is it actually good to have protein in your stomach throughout the night or is it better for you to have an empty stomach during the night? Will Milk+Whey+fiber+EVOO basically do the same thing?

    Will all these questions, and more, be debated forever?
    I think it is. Price wise, casein or a blend is probably more cost efficient than milk+whey+fiber+evoo.
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    Yes, when I have a Casein shake or fat-free cottage cheese pre-bed on a consistent basis I definitely make better gains in size and strength.

    I have a whey shake in the late morning and always post-workout.
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    it's worth it because it keeps you in an anabolic state.

    the debate will rage on forever because people are misinformed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    I think whey protein is over rated. I love Muscle milk which is a combo of Whey & Casein. I believe whey is great post workout but having a slow digesting protein like Casein in your
    is the best because you constantly get aminos released to your muscles between meals. That's why I love muscle milk...gained 15 lbs of muscle since I started using it and receive huge pumps and amazing recovery....never get lactic acid build up anymore, ready to go again next day!
    dude u do know that whey and muscle milk are 2 different things. Muscle milk is a weight gainer (basically) and whey iso is a protien you use when leaning or maintaining. So obviously youll gain weight off a weight gainer, and youll continue to meet your protien requirements with iso.

    In regards to casien, i think it is worth it, and should be a staple as someone mentioned before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazay View Post
    dude u do know that whey and muscle milk are 2 different things. Muscle milk is a weight gainer (basically) and whey iso is a protien you use when leaning or maintaining. So obviously youll gain weight off a weight gainer, and youll continue to meet your protien requirements with iso.

    In regards to casien, i think it is worth it, and should be a staple as someone mentioned before.

    i think "staple" is an awfully strong word....i'd sooner give the nod to chicken breast,fish,lean steak or eggs before bed
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    i think were talking about types of protien, and which are the staple to ones diet Muscle milk vs whey isolate vs etc.. I think most of us know that lean protien such as chicken breasts, eggs, etc are the real stapes to our diets..
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    I dont think it's needed if you are eating every 2-3 hours and consuming plenty of whole protein sources like you should be doing.

    You shouldnt be relying on protein powders anyways for alot of your intake.
    That being said I use casein every now and then when I can get a good deal on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNinja View Post
    So is Casein worth the price difference? Is it actually good to have protein in your stomach throughout the night or is it better for you to have an empty stomach during the night? Will Milk+Whey+fiber+EVOO basically do the same thing?

    Will all these questions, and more, be debated forever?
    Casein is excellent. I can tell a difference in mass gains and recovery when I have some UP or similar before bed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazay View Post
    dude u do know that whey and muscle milk are 2 different things. Muscle milk is a weight gainer (basically) and whey iso is a protien you use when leaning or maintaining. So obviously youll gain weight off a weight gainer, and youll continue to meet your protien requirements with iso.

    In regards to casien, i think it is worth it, and should be a staple as someone mentioned before.

    Muscle Milk is not a weight gainer. Cytosport does make other products including Weight Gainers. Cytogainer - That is their weight gainer product.
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    Why don't you people eat some chicken ,turkey,or fish before you go to bed?It digest slowly and is what you're body is naturally acustomed to.
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    Cassein is – by far – better than whey. It is anticatabolic in its activity and keeps your system in a constant, slow supply of amino acids. Whey is good as a post workout drink, but BCAAs or even ECAs will do a much better job at only 10g per serving.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Direwolf View Post
    Cassein is – by far – better than whey. It is anticatabolic in its activity and keeps your system in a constant, slow supply of amino acids. Whey is good as a post workout drink, but BCAAs or even ECAs will do a much better job at only 10g per serving.
    Protien is the most complete and abundant form of amino acids.
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    Dorian Yates ProPeptide Micellar casein, whey, egg albumen... And tasty

    I like the blended protein shakes for the quick deliver and steady supply of aminos as mentioned.
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    It's good to have it before bed but try not to rely on it. Eggs or grilled chicken with the red burrito salsa, garlic powder, and Montreal seasoning is much better
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    muscle milk has a **** load of carbs like a weight gainer, so its like a weight gainer to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazay View Post
    muscle milk has a **** load of carbs like a weight gainer, so its like a weight gainer to me.
    Not as many as cytogainer though.Muscle juice has 162 carbs.Thats a weight gainer!
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    i guess its what you think is high.. to me anything over 20 g per serving is like a weight gainer, because thats whats exactly gonna happen your gonna gain weight--mostly fat. Thats why i like iso with casien for most of the year
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazay View Post
    i guess its what you think is high.. to me anything over 20 g per serving is like a weight gainer, because thats whats exactly gonna happen your gonna gain weight--mostly fat. Thats why i like iso with casien for most of the year
    Depends on your metabolism.Mine is extremely high,and I have a physical job.20 carbs in one shake during the day is not enough for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazay View Post
    dude u do know that whey and muscle milk are 2 different things. Muscle milk is a weight gainer (basically) and whey iso is a protien you use when leaning or maintaining. So obviously youll gain weight off a weight gainer, and youll continue to meet your protien requirements with iso.

    In regards to casien, i think it is worth it, and should be a staple as someone mentioned before.
    Dude...Muscle Milk is a combo of Whey & Casein and MCT/good fats, 300 calories, 12 grams of fat. Have 2 jugs in front of me & just read it to you.

    I have had weight gainers b4, not sure how many calories they have but are definitely much more filling than Muscle Milk.

    People are brainwashed into thinking that Whey on its own is best because they are too stupid to understand they need to eat food every 2-3 hours to remain in an anabolic state and have a steady stream of BCAAs as well as carbs and fats. This is where Casein comes in as it's slow digesting, inclusdes whey protein also for fast digestion and has good fats to burn as energy...got the picture???
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNinja View Post
    So is Casein worth the price difference? Is it actually good to have protein in your stomach throughout the night or is it better for you to have an empty stomach during the night? Will Milk+Whey+fiber+EVOO basically do the same thing?

    Will all these questions, and more, be debated forever?
    No, No-Yes, Yes, No.
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    Slow digestion means it is digesting all night. A stomach that is digesting food all through the night is using some of the bodies energy to digest food. That means it is using energy rather than resting and recovering. May be minor but it is indeed true. This can interfere with your sleep patern. A sleep patern that is interupted in this way can prevent your body from getting into a deep sleep (REM?) required to be rested. Additionally this food interferes with your bodies ability to produce its own natural GH which can also reduce recovery.

    I am not a scientist or biologist. But unless you are eating so poorly and lightly throughout the day this nightime intake is not going to amount to much other than to compensate for the poor food intake while you are awake.

    For those people who claim that when they started taking Casein at night they finally began to grow would have grown just as well had they added that much more protein during their waking hours. Additionally had they just ate a piece of chicken or fish or eggs they would have still gotten the same additional protein without the cost of a premium protein.

    I have just recently used up a 4lb bottle of Casien (I bought it for my mom but she didn't need it) and it has produce nothing more than gas, bloating and frequent nightime urination.

    Unless you are malnurished or sick I see no real benefit and therefore not worth the cost IMHO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post

    I have just recently used up a 4lb bottle of Casien (I bought it for my mom but she didn't need it) and it has produce nothing more than gas, bloating and frequent nightime urination.
    Can I may make it up to you and send you some good stuff? Not all casein is processed equally and this may be of an advantage to smaller companies.
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    Well...all i can say is some of us must be more sensitive as others! I've switched to Muscle Milke few months ago which is Whey and Casein and have found the combo is much better than Whey alone. Whey on it's own always did very little for me. The Casein seems to keep me in an anabolic state which is what I want...more muscle and more leaness!

    I'm sure you've read that your muscles must be fed every 3 hours or so. Well for most of us this is not practical or possible...we are not professional athletes and live very busy lives...this is where Casein ROCKS! Amino acids contiuously being fed to your muscles even when you cannot eat...this can mean while you are sleeping if this what U need or thuout the day in between meal. Casein acts as part of that meal....slowly digesting and continuously feeding your muscles
    instead of a quick one time shot of protein like whey protein.

    The best protien is a combination of both high quality proteins along with good fats for energy and fatburning.
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    How about micellar casein. That seems to be the really expensive stuff. What are opinions on how much better it is than normal casein?

    Maybe people here mean micellar casein when they say casein. In that case, how about which products have the most real micellar casein for the money? That's what I'd like to know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    Slow digestion means it is digesting all night. A stomach that is digesting food all through the night is using some of the bodies energy to digest food. That means it is using energy rather than resting and recovering. May be minor but it is indeed true. This can interfere with your sleep patern. A sleep patern that is interupted in this way can prevent your body from getting into a deep sleep (REM?) required to be rested. Additionally this food interferes with your bodies ability to produce its own natural GH which can also reduce recovery.

    I am not a scientist or biologist. But unless you are eating so poorly and lightly throughout the day this nightime intake is not going to amount to much other than to compensate for the poor food intake while you are awake.

    For those people who claim that when they started taking Casein at night they finally began to grow would have grown just as well had they added that much more protein during their waking hours. Additionally had they just ate a piece of chicken or fish or eggs they would have still gotten the same additional protein without the cost of a premium protein.

    I have just recently used up a 4lb bottle of Casien (I bought it for my mom but she didn't need it) and it has produce nothing more than gas, bloating and frequent nightime urination.

    Unless you are malnurished or sick I see no real benefit and therefore not worth the cost IMHO.


    for slow digesting protein during the day i prefer cottage cheese with some oats and a little jam. will keep you full for hours, and you dont have to drink processed powder. at night, just the cottage cheese. but still, not too close to bed time.

    lately ive also found myself having better gains in strength and body composition when i have a nice big meal preworkout including about 40-50 grams of lean protein, and about 35-40 grams of slow digesting carbs. then about the same meal about 30 mins post workout. rather than using whey or some "all-in-one" powder. i guess ive just been trying to stay away from powders as best i can, using them strictly for in a hurry type meals.

    tho i gotta say, i like pro complex for powder. nice blend, and tastes good with milk for a slower digesting shake. usually have that with some milk, oats, and natty pb for a meal if i cant get in whole food.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    Slow digestion means it is digesting all night. A stomach that is digesting food all through the night is using some of the bodies energy to digest food. That means it is using energy rather than resting and recovering. May be minor but it is indeed true. This can interfere with your sleep patern. A sleep patern that is interupted in this way can prevent your body from getting into a deep sleep (REM?) required to be rested. Additionally this food interferes with your bodies ability to produce its own natural GH which can also reduce recovery.

    I am not a scientist or biologist. But unless you are eating so poorly and lightly throughout the day this nightime intake is not going to amount to much other than to compensate for the poor food intake while you are awake.

    For those people who claim that when they started taking Casein at night they finally began to grow would have grown just as well had they added that much more protein during their waking hours. Additionally had they just ate a piece of chicken or fish or eggs they would have still gotten the same additional protein without the cost of a premium protein.

    I have just recently used up a 4lb bottle of Casien (I bought it for my mom but she didn't need it) and it has produce nothing more than gas, bloating and frequent nightime urination.

    Unless you are malnurished or sick I see no real benefit and therefore not worth the cost IMHO.





    I agree,

    Casein Pre bed no more!
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    It is a good post B5150.But about the first part,I have thrown up chunks of steak in the morning from the night before.What i'm getting at is I think you are already digesting food throughout the night.I also eat imediately before bed and drink a protien shake when I go to the bathroom in the middle of the night.I personally see this as helping with the recovery process.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pantera101 View Post
    It is a good post B5150.But about the first part,I have thrown up chunks of steak in the morning from the night before.What i'm getting at is I think you are already digesting food throughout the night.I also eat imediately before bed and drink a protien shake when I go to the bathroom in the middle of the night.I personally see this as helping with the recovery process.

    No, it will hinder your recovery not help it!. You should stop eating at least 3-4 hours before sleep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    No, it will hinder your recovery not help it!. You should stop eating at least 3-4 hours before sleep.
    Are you serious man?(not being a douche,calm social mannered)I have heard bb'rs telling others to eat some clean meat before bed instead of drinking a fast digesting protien.Thats also where I got the idea about the middle of the night protien shake.I know pro bb'rs have the best genetics in the world and are juiced like crazy,but I take advice like this to the heart from those people.They(most anyways from today)know their sh!t when it comes to diet and training.Also sometimes I make up for a bad cal day by eating more before I go to bed.So it can just sit and feed the muscles while i'm sleeping.
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    eating in middle of the night works for Jay Cutler.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pantera101 View Post
    Are you serious man?(not being a douche,calm social mannered)I have heard bb'rs telling others to eat some clean meat before bed instead of drinking a fast digesting protien.Thats also where I got the idea about the middle of the night protien shake.I know pro bb'rs have the best genetics in the world and are juiced like crazy,but I take advice like this to the heart from those people.They(most anyways from today)know their sh!t when it comes to diet and training.Also sometimes I make up for a bad cal day by eating more before I go to bed.So it can just sit and feed the muscles while i'm sleeping.

    Just because a pro bodybuilder does it doesn't make it right. Also, a lot of things they say, they are paid to say. The only time I have heard or read something about drinking casein before bed is from COMPANIES SELLING PROTEIN!.


    Try not eating or drinking at least 3-4 hours before sleep and see how much better sleep you get. Better sleep = better recovery. Another thing, why do you think they call your first meal breakFAST. It is because you are "Breaking" your "fast" which is NEEDED overnight during sleep in which the body produces Growth Hormone......Read up more about sleep and what goes on with you body at night during sleep, especially REM sleep. You need this Fast at night!.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pantera101 View Post
    It is a good post B5150.But about the first part,I have thrown up chunks of steak in the morning from the night before.What i'm getting at is I think you are already digesting food throughout the night.I also eat imediately before bed and drink a protien shake when I go to the bathroom in the middle of the night.I personally see this as helping with the recovery process.
    You are sort of affirming my point in a way.

    If you have thrown up chunks in the morning that means that it has sat in your stomach all night long. That is undigested and/or semi-digested food.

    Digestion takes place in the intestines. It takes three to five hours for that semi-digested food to slowly be released from the stomach into the intestines. That is where digestion (nutrient absorption) takes place.

    That food in your stomach did nothing for you between the time you ate it and threw it up the next morning. The natural process of movement, gravity and so forth is what helps the body move food through it. Laying horizontal on an full stomach of food will leave it sitting there in the stomach just as you discovered when you threw it back up.

    Eat the same amount of food that you would have included in those almost-in-bed-meals while you are awake and vertical and process it through the stomach that three to five hours before bed. Then that will let the body use the nutrients that are absorbed by the intestines that are then flowing through your bloodstream to heal, recover, restore and grow your body. Not to mention that it makes the cardiac sphincter more susceptible to opening and causing acid reflux (heartburn) and GERD when you sleep on a full stomach.

    Most will do what they want and like because they think it is what to do because such and such company markets this and that type of protein for this and that time of day. Or even worse the big guy at the gym or on the board does it yet you have no idea whether or not it has anything at all to do with his physique because some guys just grow on ****ty diets regardless.

    I promise you if you are getting in 300g (or whatever your amount may be) of protein a day into your body you will be in positive nitrogen balance all day and your body will not suffer one little bit for those 4 to 6 or even 8 hours before you wake again to eat.
  

  
 

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