Putting my first big supp order in, need peer review

[SayNo2Endo]

I’ve never used anything other than diet, protein powder, and BCAAs before now. I’ve FINALLY found a great lifting partner. We’ve been having great training sessions for a few months now and I’m ready to go to a new level of commitment. I want to maximize my results.

My diet is dialed in with several smaller sized meals incorporating, quality proteins from eggs to beef, veggies of all colors and varieties as well as fruits.

Right now I’m supping:

Whey protein twice a day
Flax oil & ground flax seed Although recently I've been hearing fish oil is better (any opinions on that?)
L-Glutamine twice a day
Creatine Monohydrate twice a day


I’m getting ready to place an order for several supps and according to what I’ve seen the following seem to be staples

L-Carnitine (liquid form) for weight loss and pre-wo energy
BCAAs (powder form) to fight catabolism during training
Beta-Alanine (powder form) for strength and endurance during training
Arginine-AKG (powder form) cuz it’s touted just apparently a must have
Multi-Vitamin cuz hellOOO do I really need to explain this
ZMA for recuperation and optimal muscle regeneration

Was also considering:
Beta-ecdysterone heard some really good stuff about protein synthesis and promoting an anabolic state

Is this excessive?

Also I’ve been hearing from people that they recommend AAKG, Beta-Alanine AND an NO-promoter like SuperPump250 or White-Flood . Some people I’ve talked to swear by an NO product reporting that AAKG alone does nothing for them.

Please give me feedback, I want to enhance result but I DON’T want to waste precious young married family funds.

:clean:

 

[heebs10]

fish oil instead of flax, pass on the ecdy, i would drop the L-glutaimine, and AAKG is a NO-promoter by its self (IMO, not worth it though, just pass on NO all together)

 

[SayNo2Endo]

Damn! I just bought a new bottle of flax oil last night, but hey, it's never bad to learn what to do better.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[washingtonirvin]

Hey,

Congratulations on your progress...

You are holding diet constant at the moment, and you are currently supplementing
Protein: Whey and L-glutamine
Fat/Fiber: Flax oil / flax seeds
Other: Creatine monohydrate

These are all standard, and for good reason. Are you cycling your creatine, and taking it with dextrose or grape juice? I hope so.

Before I can comment on what to add next, I would like to know a little more about your goals. How many years of training experience do you have? What is your body type (it sounds like you want to add mass, but to what kind of frame)? How many days per week are you training, and with what kind of workouts?

A multivitamin is definitely a no-brainer. It is worth the extra green for a good one. I take Alive! whole food energizer, but I gather there may be better ones out there.

My next no-brainer is MAN Body Octane, which is expensive, but also my favorite OTC supplement. It dramatically reduces my soreness, makes my workouts more intense, and gives me a wicked tingling feeling. It gives you your L-Carnitine and Beta-Alanine. I think you will have to mail order this one.

I like your ambition, but I think you should go stepwise here. First add the multi. A week later add the Body Octane. Then maybe wait a few weeks before adding anything else, so you can figure out a good regimen for what you've just added.

I wish you the best.

:goodpost:

 

[SMOKEPALADIN]

As said above, what are your goals?
1. Use fish oil during the day, and flax at night.
2. Agree with Heebs10 Arginine and other NO products are a waste of $$-IMO

 

[OCCFan023]

fish oil instead of flax, pass on the ecdy, i would drop the L-glutaimine, and AAKG is a NO-promoter by its self (IMO, not worth it though, just pass on NO all together)

Agree with heebs except for dropping flax seed oil. Flax is an awesome source of healthy fats and also great for boosting hormone levels (thats why i take at least 1 tbsp before bed with my last meal.) Take in fish oil pills and flax and your body will love you.

 

[pmiller383]

Agree with heebs except for dropping flax seed oil. Flax is an awesome source of healthy fats and also great for boosting hormone levels (thats why i take at least 1 tbsp before bed with my last meal.) Take in fish oil pills and flax and your body will love you.

Yeah,
Absolutely nothing wrong with flax oil, just make sure you refrigerate it. I was at a friends a few days ago and I seen his flax oil bottle in his room, I took a wif of it and it was so rancid, Other than that glutamine is overrated by most, and the NO stuff is good for a inspirational pump which I actually think helps keep your training up sometimes, but thats about all I ever got from it. ecdy is another controversial one, I don't know if I would personally spring for it.

 

[EasyEJL]

yeah, the fish + flax combo is the way to go

 

[heebs10]

i agree with Easy and the others that the flax and fish oils are great together. i said fish oil earlier because i prefer it over flax IF you are only going to take one or the other.

 

[msucurt]

i agree with Easy and the others that the flax and fish oils are great together. i said fish oil earlier because i prefer it over flax IF you are only going to take one or the other.

heebs, have you ever tried the intrastack (intrabolic / intraxcell). Im starting it monday and was just curious on some feedback other than bb.com. It has gotten rave reviews and produced good results and feedback.

thanks

 

[Distilled Water]

L-Carnitine (liquid form) for weight loss and pre-wo energy
:thumbsup:
FYI Powder stuff at NP is waaaay cheaper.

BCAAs (powder form) to fight catabolism during training
-:thumbsup:

Beta-Alanine (powder form) for strength and endurance during training
:thumbsup:

Arginine-AKG (powder form) cuz it’s touted just apparently a must have
I'd pass, I think pmiller made a great point about it

Multi-Vitamin cuz hellOOO do I really need to explain this
:thumbsup:

ZMA for recuperation and optimal muscle regeneration
:thumbsup: love me some ZMA at night, if you have a little extra cash maybe look into ZMK from Mellinum.

 

[strategicmove]

i agree with Easy and the others that the flax and fish oils are great together. i said fish oil earlier because i prefer it over flax IF you are only going to take one or the other.

Ideally, both should be consumed, as they have different functions and properties. Fish oil has more omega-3 fatty acids than flaxseed. Flaxseed is one of the few plant sources of the omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid, alpha-linolenic acid (ALA). As it turns out, ALA is converted into the two biologically more active omega-3 fatty acids, EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic acid). Furthermore, flaxseed has other cool benefits such as being a rich source of lignans and phytoestrogens; improving intestinal health and offering protection against colon cancer; helping strengthen cardiovascular integrity and managing cholesterol levels; as well as supporting optimal glucose synthesis. Net, one would be better-off taking the two.

 

[strategicmove]

yeah, the fish + flax combo is the way to go

Yep!

 

[strategicmove]

...
2. Agree with Heebs10 Arginine and other NO products are a waste of $$-IMO

Not necessarily! Nitric-oxide products would not make you muscular directly, but they contribute to vasodilation. Some say vasodilation is a useless "feel" or "aesthetic" effect. I see it differently. Through vasodilation/improved blood flow, muscle tissue is flooded with important nutrients, creating a favourable environment for anabolism.

Beyond arginine, grapeseed extract (OPCs) and carnosine (or one of its component compounds, beta alanine) are also potent vasodilators.
Consider this (I copied it from a contribution I made in a different thread): http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/84952-hemodraulix-now-planet.html

Arginine is the substrate for two enzymes, arginase and nitric oxide synthase. These enzymes compete against each other for the arginine metabolic pathway. The enzyme arginase converts arginine to ornithine and urea. Nitric oxide synthase converts arginine to nitric oxide, the potent vasodilator. A higher expression of the arginase enzyme leads to higher ornithine production, but less nitric oxide production. You even get better vasodilation by combining arginine with a nitric-oxide-synthase promoter such as grapeseed extract. This is one of the principles exploited in the product, RPM. An arginase inhibitor such as BCAAs can also be added for even more noticeable results. So, the key to elevated nitric oxide levels is either to inhibit arginase, or to directly stimulate nitric oxide synthase. Preferably both!

As it turns out, carnosine is another powerful substrate for nitric-oxide production via promotion of the nitric-oxide synthase pathway and inhibition of arginase activity. By boosting the synthesis of carnosine, beta alanine directly contributes to elevating cellular concentrations of carnosine, leading to even greater activation of the nitric-oxide synthase (and crowding out of arginase), and finally ending in elevated nitric oxide levels, and therefore, significantly higher vasodilation and pump.

So, beta alanine, like arginine, will also contribute to a significant elevation of nitric-oxide levels, triggering dramatic vasodilation. The product, HemodrauliX, utilized the beta-alanine-arginine pathway as part of its vasodilatory effects.

So, if vasodilation is good, arginine may not be a waste!

 

[SayNo2Endo]

Hey,

Congratulations on your progress...

You are holding diet constant at the moment, and you are currently supplementing
Protein: Whey and L-glutamine
Fat/Fiber: Flax oil / flax seeds
Other: Creatine monohydrate

These are all standard, and for good reason. Are you cycling your creatine, and taking it with dextrose or grape juice? I hope so.

Before I can comment on what to add next, I would like to know a little more about your goals. How many years of training experience do you have? What is your body type (it sounds like you want to add mass, but to what kind of frame)? How many days per week are you training, and with what kind of workouts?

A multivitamin is definitely a no-brainer. It is worth the extra green for a good one. I take Alive! whole food energizer, but I gather there may be better ones out there.

My next no-brainer is MAN Body Octane, which is expensive, but also my favorite OTC supplement. It dramatically reduces my soreness, makes my workouts more intense, and gives me a wicked tingling feeling. It gives you your L-Carnitine and Beta-Alanine. I think you will have to mail order this one.

I like your ambition, but I think you should go stepwise here. First add the multi. A week later add the Body Octane. Then maybe wait a few weeks before adding anything else, so you can figure out a good regimen for what you've just added.

I wish you the best.

:goodpost:

What great encouragement, I'm so glad I posted, thank you all!

So my routine goes like this:

Mondays: Pulling movements (lats, biceps, forearms, etc.)
2 compound pull, 1 isolation lats, 1 isolation bicep, 1 isolation forearm

Tuesdays: Cardio (45 minutes)

Wednesdays: Pushing movements (pecs, triceps, deltoids, etc.)
2 compound push, 1 isolation chest, 1 isolation triceps, 1 isolation deltoids

Thursdays: Cardio (45 minutes)

Fridays: Legs
2 compound (example squat and deadlift), 1 isolation hammy, 1 isolation quad, 1 isolation gastrocnemius

Saturdays: Cardio (45 minutes) + abs + muscles I feel were neglected (traps maybe)

Sundays: REST


So we’ll pick one lifting day a week to perform the excercises in a superset (H.I.T.) type manner, we’ll rotate one week supersetting Monday the other week supersetting Wednesday. Which ever day we decide not to superset that week we’ll throw in some negative reps.

On higher endurance muscle groups we try to reach between 10 and 12 reps and on the rest between 4 and 10 depending on the set we’re on. We usually add weight each set, I’m the weaker of the two of us and I often need to stay on the same weight after the second set.

Depending on how the movement and exhaustion feels we do 3 or 4 sets, usually 4.

The first exercise for which ever muscle group we work we’ll add a warm up set maybe two.

We work ourselves pretty hard and I am usually only able to get about 7 hours sleep due to schedule, life, you know the drill.

Lastly I’m 6’0” and weight 282 pounds and am 34.4% body fat according to last measurement.

I’ve been losing about 2 pounds of body fat per week which I can live with, if I could burn fat faster I’d be up for it but not at the cost of eating on muscle. Lifting and strength is what motivates me and keeps me coming back for more.

I’d be interested to find out what pro BBs do during a cutting phase.

 

[SMOKEPALADIN]

Not necessarily! Nitric-oxide products would not make you muscular directly, but they contribute to vasodilation. Some say vasodilation is a useless "feel" or "aesthetic" effect. I see it differently. Through vasodilation/improved blood flow, muscle tissue is flooded with important nutrients, creating a favourable environment for anabolism.

Hmmmm, good point. I think this may merit further study, I am still not sold on it, but nice to have a different point of view to think about. Hard to measure the cost vs. bennefit on this one which most (but not all) of the time drives my supplement spending patterns.

 

[EasyEJL]

Hmmmm, good point. I think this may merit further study, I am still not sold on it, but nice to have a different point of view to think about. Hard to measure the cost vs. bennefit on this one which most (but not all) of the time drives my supplement spending patterns.

do you buy bioperine and use it? looking at cost vs benefit, its probably the best thing on earth. can get a bottle of 120 tabs for under $7, and it improves the efficiency of anything else you take by anywhere from 10-60%, possibly more. at 3 tabs a day thats 40 days worth, and you will notice it significantly. combine that with naringin, and the effect can almost be crazy.

 

[Force of Green]

do you buy bioperine and use it? looking at cost vs benefit, its probably the best thing on earth. can get a bottle of 120 tabs for under $7, and it improves the efficiency of anything else you take by anywhere from 10-60%, possibly more. at 3 tabs a day thats 40 days worth, and you will notice it significantly. combine that with naringin, and the effect can almost be crazy.

But don't use Bioperine (tm) with medications! It has a crazy negative effect with anti-depressant blood concentration levels... It can also significantly enhance the absorption of amphetamines.

 

[SMOKEPALADIN]

do you buy bioperine and use it? looking at cost vs benefit, its probably the best thing on earth. can get a bottle of 120 tabs for under $7, and it improves the efficiency of anything else you take by anywhere from 10-60%, possibly more. at 3 tabs a day thats 40 days worth, and you will notice it significantly. combine that with naringin, and the effect can almost be crazy.

Have not tried Bioperine yet, looks good though, I will say I am a big fan of naringin, and DRIVE is one of my favorite supplements!

 

[EasyEJL]

It can also significantly enhance the absorption of amphetamines.

yeah, it does wonders on rpm dosing. you can easily take 1 or 2 less rpm caps, or a lower dose on fat burners. I'm planning on experimenting more with it

 

[strategicmove]

yeah, it does wonders on rpm dosing. you can easily take 1 or 2 less rpm caps, or a lower dose on fat burners. I'm planning on experimenting more with it

I saw a recommendation once not to take more than 15mg of Bioperine® daily. I do not recall the precise justification anymore. Probably due to its potent bioavailability enhancement properties. Sabinsa (the patent holder) does not appear to have issued such a warning, though.

 

[EasyEJL]

yeah, I was actually hoping to find 5mg caps to take 3x daily, the only ones i've found so far are 10s, which seems a bit on the high side. if they are tablets tho, I can split them.

 

[heebs10]

Not necessarily! Nitric-oxide products would not make you muscular directly, but they contribute to vasodilation. Some say vasodilation is a useless "feel" or "aesthetic" effect. I see it differently. Through vasodilation/improved blood flow, muscle tissue is flooded with important nutrients, creating a favourable environment for anabolism.

Beyond arginine, grapeseed extract (OPCs) and carnosine (or one of its component compounds, beta alanine) are also potent vasodilators.
Consider this (I copied it from a contribution I made in a different thread): http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/84952-hemodraulix-now-planet.html

Arginine is the substrate for two enzymes, arginase and nitric oxide synthase. These enzymes compete against each other for the arginine metabolic pathway. The enzyme arginase converts arginine to ornithine and urea. Nitric oxide synthase converts arginine to nitric oxide, the potent vasodilator. A higher expression of the arginase enzyme leads to higher ornithine production, but less nitric oxide production. You even get better vasodilation by combining arginine with a nitric-oxide-synthase promoter such as grapeseed extract. This is one of the principles exploited in the product, RPM. An arginase inhibitor such as BCAAs can also be added for even more noticeable results. So, the key to elevated nitric oxide levels is either to inhibit arginase, or to directly stimulate nitric oxide synthase. Preferably both!

As it turns out, carnosine is another powerful substrate for nitric-oxide production via promotion of the nitric-oxide synthase pathway and inhibition of arginase activity. By boosting the synthesis of carnosine, beta alanine directly contributes to elevating cellular concentrations of carnosine, leading to even greater activation of the nitric-oxide synthase (and crowding out of arginase), and finally ending in elevated nitric oxide levels, and therefore, significantly higher vasodilation and pump.

So, beta alanine, like arginine, will also contribute to a significant elevation of nitric-oxide levels, triggering dramatic vasodilation. The product, HemodrauliX, utilized the beta-alanine-arginine pathway as part of its vasodilatory effects.

So, if vasodilation is good, arginine may not be a waste!

1. your not human, your a computer with a massive hard drive of info.
2. dam good post.
3. NO products do have useful purposes indeed, and many vasodialators have plenty of health benefits but i think many of the products cannot be justified by their price. some might, but the ones i have used are not worth the money. IMO, i could put the money toward a different product that will give greater results. thats just me though, i understand many people love their NO supps weather its because of the feeling of their biceps about to explode after curling or that they actually make gains off the product. but for me, overall benefits of many NO products cannot be justified by their price.

 

[heebs10]

heebs, have you ever tried the intrastack (intrabolic / intraxcell). Im starting it monday and was just curious on some feedback other than bb.com. It has gotten rave reviews and produced good results and feedback.

thanks

negative bro, this is the one stack we dont have in common. let us know how it goes though, are you doing a log?

 

[Nightwanderer]

like others have more or less stated, I'd carefully comb through the nutritional profiles of your current supps, including your protein powder, I honestly think that if certain BCAA's are already in your protein supplement, you're wasting money on buying them seperately. A lot of times you can overlook what you're already getting in he form of your supplements. I don't like NO supplements because they make me tired and the 'pump' they give just seems like a cosmetic more than anything else, and very temporary at that.

 

[Force of Green]

like others have more or less stated, I'd carefully comb through the nutritional profiles of your current supps, including your protein powder, I honestly think that if certain BCAA's are already in your protein supplement, you're wasting money on buying them seperately. A lot of times you can overlook what you're already getting in he form of your supplements. I don't like NO supplements because they make me tired and the 'pump' they give just seems like a cosmetic more than anything else, and very temporary at that.

I somewhat agree. When I used the AAKG or AEE type formulas, I got a great cosmetic effect and also got tired from the drop in blood pressure. Citrulline Malate, Norvaline, Beta-alanine, and a couple other NO potentiators actually give me better energy output and don't make me tired. I love the energy, endurance, and the pumps I get from Ragnarok. It's not your typical preworkout garbage that will inflate you like a balloon while you half-ass your workouts... So, I found that synergistic NO potentiators along with anti-oxidants, a good creatine matrix, and some electrolytes makes for a KILLER combo. N02 by itself has done me no good.