question about cardiovascular health.

[Cellardude]

I know this might not be in the right section but i wasnt exactly sure which section it might go under. I am not trying to lose weight per say as I am still bulking but I had something on my mind that aroused my curiosity. While bulking, I have noticed that I lack cardiovascular health. ( Slightly high BP, increased heart rate, lack of V02) The other day for health class my professor had us running around the block. I figured I could try a HIT cardio type of run. Turns out that I couldnt make it around the block once before I was shot tired and gasping for air.

My question to you guys who managed to stay lean,or healthy cardio wise is how would you set up a cardio routine while in a bulking phase? Also how would you do so while not trying to lose too many calories. Since I have never done a cut before I was wondering would it be a good idea to do medium intensity cardio/light cardio for lets say 15-25 minutes to help increase cardiovascular health?

I know some people argue that cardio while on a bulk makes no sense but I do believe that in the long run, If you do cardio while maintaining a healthy heart you make it MUCH easier on yourself when it comes time to cut. Your cardio sesions will be much easier. What do you guys think? Discuss please

My plan is to maybe add 15-20 min of cardio post workout possibly? And if done post workout, should I take my PWO shake during cardio or after? Thanks for the help guys.

 

[goslamacamel]

Sprints are what you want. Full on long endurance cardio will burn off muscle and do your heart minimal good. You want to do sprints and high intensity lifts at a fast pace. This will build up your pericardium and make your heart much stronger, keeping you more heart-healthy than if you were to do long distance useless cardio exercises.

Think evolution - humans weren't meant to travel long distances like a gazelle or whatever. We were meant to move very fast for only short periods of time, like to get away from an animal real quick or something. Especially for prevention of cardiovascular diseases, you want periodic high intensity lifting/exercising, and sprints will be ideal to achieve this. Don't think it should decrease muscle mass significantly either.

 

[Cellardude]

Sprints are what you want. Full on long endurance cardio will burn off muscle and do your heart minimal good. You want to do sprints and high intensity lifts at a fast pace. This will build up your pericardium and make your heart much stronger, keeping you more heart-healthy than if you were to do long distance useless cardio exercises.

Think evolution - humans weren't meant to travel long distances like a gazelle or whatever. We were meant to move very fast for only short periods of time, like to get away from an animal real quick or something. Especially for prevention of cardiovascular diseases, you want periodic high intensity lifting/exercising, and sprints will be ideal to achieve this. Don't think it should decrease muscle mass significantly either.

I feel that your right about the fast pace cardio. The only problem is how I would get started on it. I tried running like I said around the block in a sprint like fashion. Didnt last the block. I ran at full speed up a (long NYC manhattan block) and rested for half the block. Then tried to run agian for the block, and rested for half. I was killed by the time I ran around the block once. My question basically is HOW is it to start off in terms of cardiovascular health. I dont want to be those manhattan junkie sissy boys doing cardio all day long trying to impress the ladies. But not being able to do a block is kinda sad. Would medium pace intensity at the edge of a cut be useful? I plan on cutting in 2-3 months. With that said, I dont want to be running 1 friken block and getting myself killed when I do so. What can be done to increase cardiovascular health in this term?

P.S I kinda think I know the answer, I just wanted to know what you guys though about this issue. Maybe someone who has been in this situation might chime in? Perhaps someone who went bulking for lets say a year without cardio then tried to cut?
How did you handle the cardio sessions while on the cut after a long break from cardio.

Thanks agian guys. Any imput would be greatly appreciated. Small or big contributions

(jeez I sound like a NYC subway bum. :lol: )

 

[goslamacamel]

I don't really have an idea of how long it is to run a block but if it's a significant distance then I wouldn't worry about being able to run it in the first place. If you're putting on a significant bulk of muscle mass you have to forget about running really long distances. I don't think Ronnie Coleman can run too far.

If you're not a cross country runner and you live in NYC, I would completely forget about long interval cardio forever. Your body will never need it for any practical purpose, nor should anyone else in the world unless they're a runner or swimmer or whatever.

 

[Rodja]

Sprints are what you want. Full on long endurance cardio will burn off muscle and do your heart minimal good. You want to do sprints and high intensity lifts at a fast pace. This will build up your pericardium and make your heart much stronger, keeping you more heart-healthy than if you were to do long distance useless cardio exercises.

Think evolution - humans weren't meant to travel long distances like a gazelle or whatever. We were meant to move very fast for only short periods of time, like to get away from an animal real quick or something. Especially for prevention of cardiovascular diseases, you want periodic high intensity lifting/exercising, and sprints will be ideal to achieve this. Don't think it should decrease muscle mass significantly either.

You are completely wrong. Steady state cardio, not HIIT, is what you want to do for cardio vascular health. Also, the whole cardio is catabolic brotelligence is a total myth. HIIT will have a more favorable impact on body composition, but it does not provide the same positive effects on heart and lipid health.

 

[scoooter]

I get winded doing heavy squats so theres got to be some cardio benefit there I think to stay lean on a bulk...eat more protien, cycle carb's (and none after lunch). Could also try some cortisol blocker's (lean extreme or EndoAMP)

 

[Rodja]

I get winded doing heavy squats so theres got to be some cardio benefit there I think to stay lean on a bulk...eat more protien, cycle carb's (and none after lunch). Could also try some cortisol blocker's (lean extreme or EndoAMP)

I elaborated on this in another thread yesterday about how weight training is basically HIIT in and of itself. However, it is foolish to think that lifting will get you into good cardio shape.

 

[scoooter]

I elaborated on this in another thread yesterday about how weight training is basically HIIT in and of itself. However, it is foolish to think that lifting will get you into good cardio shape.

Can you paste that link from yesterday about the HIIT ?
I was implying there was only some benefit. I didn't think "good cardio shape" meant the guy was trianing for a marathon, he said he wanted to stay bulking. I agree that lifting all on its own wouldn't provide sufficient cardio improvement, so I'm anxious to read about that HIIT program.

 

[davidcyt]

You are completely wrong. Steady state cardio, not HIIT, is what you want to do for cardio vascular health. Also, the whole cardio is catabolic brotelligence is a total myth. HIIT will have a more favorable impact on body composition, but it does not provide the same positive effects on heart and lipid health.

agree

 

[goslamacamel]

You are completely wrong. Steady state cardio, not HIIT, is what you want to do for cardio vascular health. Also, the whole cardio is catabolic brotelligence is a total myth. HIIT will have a more favorable impact on body composition, but it does not provide the same positive effects on heart and lipid health.

So are you saying a 30 minute jog would build up the heart's muscle more efficiently than HIIT and fast paced heavy compound lifts?

I just have a pragmatic problem believing blood pounding against the pericardium and the muscles being suddenly taxed of oxygen won't have more of a hemoglobin increase and cardiovascular disease preventing benefit than basically "going for a stroll".

But first of all, let's agree on what cardiovascular health really is. Do you believe it to be prevention of disease and prolonging of life? or do you believe it to be lasting the longest in a fight or running the longest distance in the shortest amount of time? I'm basing my presumptions on the former for what it's worth.

Oh, almost forgot. I'm also assuming that most people dying of heart disease do so because they enter into a suddenly physical state which their heart and blood vessels aren't equipped to handle, both in strength and in ability to carry inordinate amounts of oxygen to the body.

 

[Rodja]

So are you saying a 30 minute jog would build up the heart's muscle more efficiently than HIIT and fast paced heavy compound lifts?

I just have a pragmatic problem believing blood pounding against the pericardium and the muscles being suddenly taxed of oxygen won't have more of a hemoglobin increase and cardiovascular disease preventing benefit than basically "going for a stroll".

But first of all, let's agree on what cardiovascular health really is. Do you believe it to be prevention of disease and prolonging of life? or do you believe it to be lasting the longest in a fight or running the longest distance in the shortest amount of time? I'm basing my presumptions on the former for what it's worth.

Oh, almost forgot. I'm also assuming that most people dying of heart disease do so because they enter into a suddenly physical state which their heart and blood vessels aren't equipped to handle, both in strength and in ability to carry inordinate amounts of oxygen to the body.

Essentially, yes. Steady-state aerobics help to lessen the plaque within the arteries (lessing the risk arteriosclerosis) and will increase the RBC count within the body much more than HIIT. HIIT will create a better environment for increasing the lactic acid threshold, but it will not increase the 02 saturation point.

This is simply anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth, but my BP right now (~135/65) is much better than it was when I though lifting and HIIT was all I needed (~120/70). As an FYI, the systolic increase is due to an increase in my blood volume levels in my body, which is directly related to an increase in cardio.

 

[Rodja]

Can you paste that link from yesterday about the HIIT ?
I was implying there was only some benefit. I didn't think "good cardio shape" meant the guy was trianing for a marathon, he said he wanted to stay bulking. I agree that lifting all on its own wouldn't provide sufficient cardio improvement, so I'm anxious to read about that HIIT program.

I think there is somewhat of a misunderstanding about what "heart health" actually is. Maintaining a HR at ~70% of your MHR for an extended period of time (at least 20 minutes) is a strong, healthy heart.

 

[goslamacamel]

Essentially, yes. Steady-state aerobics help to lessen the plaque within the arteries (lessing the risk arteriosclerosis) and will increase the RBC count within the body much more than HIIT. HIIT will create a better environment for increasing the lactic acid threshold, but it will not increase the 02 saturation point.

This is simply anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth, but my BP right now (~135/65) is much better than it was when I though lifting and HIIT was all I needed (~120/70). As an FYI, the systolic increase is due to an increase in my blood volume levels in my body, which is directly related to an increase in cardio.

Well I've read a couple articles about how to truly get a healthier heart you want to really strengthen it because apparently it's been shown that the problem with heart attack patients is that their heart volume isn't high enough, so resilience in heart and blood vessel muscle is key in life longevity.

Some anecdotal evidence of my own has been that when I used to end every weight session with 20-30 min cardio, my blood pressure would stay normal, at 120/70 basically. However, over the last 9-10 months I've been dropping "normal" cardio completely. I drink some polyphenols (plumsmart or normal grape juice) before every workout that involves a heavy compound lift (squats, deads, bench, clean and press, variations thereof) and I find I can make myself get crazy winded afterwards. I shoot for the dizziness feeling where the gym looks a little weird when I look around.

Since doing that, my systolic has shot up like crazy, has been around 155 at resting before, normally 150 or so. And my diastolic has plummetted down to 60 sometimes, normally 65. Resting heart rate eventually started to startle me, sitting at about 55/min.

I'll keep doing this, because it obviously works for me. Never touching normal steady cardio again unless specifically advised to do so by a doctor - for what reason I don't know.

 

[Rodja]

Well I've read a couple articles about how to truly get a healthier heart you want to really strengthen it because apparently it's been shown that the problem with heart attack patients is that their heart volume isn't high enough, so resilience in heart and blood vessel muscle is key in life longevity.

Some anecdotal evidence of my own has been that when I used to end every weight session with 20-30 min cardio, my blood pressure would stay normal, at 120/70 basically. However, over the last 9-10 months I've been dropping "normal" cardio completely. I drink some polyphenols (plumsmart or normal grape juice) before every workout that involves a heavy compound lift (squats, deads, bench, clean and press, variations thereof) and I find I can make myself get crazy winded afterwards. I shoot for the dizziness feeling where the gym looks a little weird when I look around.

Since doing that, my systolic has shot up like crazy, has been around 155 at resting before, normally 150 or so. And my diastolic has plummetted down to 60 sometimes, normally 65. Resting heart rate eventually started to startle me, sitting at about 55/min.

I'll keep doing this, because it obviously works for me. Never touching normal steady cardio again unless specifically advised to do so by a doctor - for what reason I don't know.

My only disclaimer is that you need to remember that sh!t changes as you age. FYI, my RHR is 46...

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

You could try a couple of these cellar. The first one in the article is my fave so far.
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1756065

 

[Cellardude]

Thanks guys. I checked this thread and it was dead in the morning. Though you guys all forgot about me

 

[goslamacamel]

Thanks guys. I checked this thread and it was dead in the morning. Though you guys all forgot about me

I think the conclusion of the discussion is probably that whatever you choose to do, just make sure you're huffing and puffing by the end of it. Maybe you favor a sudden increase in pressure exerted on the heart and veins like me, or like most people believe in a steady long-term heart rate elevation. I think either will have cardiovascular benefits.