Leucine/Leukic

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    Leucine/Leukic


    I was under the impression that MT's Leukic contains only Leucine- does it not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBrightside View Post
    I was under the impression that MT's Leukic contains only Leucine- does it not?
    Primarily, yes.
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    Well then how can they claim it's the world's first 100% anabolic compound? Isn't that fraud? If leucine is indeed 100% anabolic...then LEUCINE would be the world's first 100% anabolic compound. I am so sick of the people at Muscletech that I never want to set foot inside a GNC ever again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBrightside View Post
    Well then how can they claim it's the world's first 100% anabolic compound? Isn't that fraud? If leucine is indeed 100% anabolic...then LEUCINE would be the world's first 100% anabolic compound. I am so sick of the people at Muscletech that I never want to set foot inside a GNC ever again.
    That's MuscleTech for ya, and that's why nobody here likes them. It'd serve you well to never step inside GNC again, nobody here likes them either
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    mmmm i wonder if MT actually has any decent products even though they are expensive, too bad the only way id be able to figure that question out, is if i was a millionare!
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    Its all hype, just like all the rest of their products, my favorite is the "chilling new era of cryogenic muscle growth only found in Anabolic Halo", they are a crack-up

    If you want a good leucine product, look into Ultimate Nutrition's AminoBolic, its EAAs but mostly Leucine, 6.5g per dose, and much much cheaper than Leukic
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    I believe their products are decent, but what takes away from their decency is what they charge for it and the ridiculous claims they make. The value of their decency is exceeded tremendously by their monetary value, and their marketing ads are normally outlandish.

    I also believe (to an extent) for 1st time supp users (which is the bulk of MT's demographic), that the more you pay for a product, the greater the placebo effect, like a defense mechanism to convince yourself you didn't just flush a bunch of money down the toilet. The placebo effect on MT supps have to be off the wall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VolcomX311 View Post
    I believe their products are decent, but what takes away from their decency is what they charge for it and the ridiculous claims they make. The value of their decency is exceeded tremendously by their monetary value, and their marketing ads are normally outlandish.

    I also believe (to an extent) for 1st time supp users (which is the bulk of MT's demographic), that the more you pay for a product, the greater the placebo effect, like a defense mechanism to convince yourself you didn't just flush a bunch of money down the toilet. The placebo effect on MT supps have to be off the wall.

    "I gained 6 pounds of muscle in just 3 hours!!!"
    Haha, I can definitely attest to that. I bought some Creakic when I wasn't as knowledged as I am now (which...still isn't that knowledged), took it during the workout, and swelled up quite a bit immediately. I was pretty psyched at the time, but in hindsight I realize I was retarded.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBrightside View Post
    Haha, I can definitely attest to that. I bought some Creakic when I wasn't as knowledged as I am now (which...still isn't that knowledged), took it during the workout, and swelled up quite a bit immediately. I was pretty psyched at the time, but in hindsight I realize I was retarded.
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    Quote Originally Posted by king1033 View Post
    mmmm i wonder if MT actually has any decent products even though they are expensive, too bad the only way id be able to figure that question out, is if i was a millionare!
    I thought nanovapor was good (better than No Xplode) until I got onto RPM

    MT's advertising ****s me to tears - that insane asylum is no better

    I aint never seen USPLabs advertise - don't think they need to either!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakellpet View Post
    I thought nanovapor was good (better than No Xplode) until I got onto RPM

    MT's advertising ****s me to tears - that insane asylum is no better

    I aint never seen USPLabs advertise - don't think they need to either!!
    RPM's the truth
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolcomX311 View Post
    RPM's the truth
    yeah, you put me onto it thanks - reackon Drive is worth a shot mate? it sounds a little bit like PFull which Im currently taking
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBrightside View Post
    I bought some Creakic when I wasn't as knowledged as I am now (which...still isn't that knowledged), took it during the workout, and swelled up quite a bit immediately. I was pretty psyched at the time, but in hindsight I realize I was retarded.
    LMAO!

    The Pro BBs that are in the ads for this POS company all say that they only do it for the money. A friend of mine talked to Johnny Jackson at an Arnold one year and he said he doesn't even take any of the products.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggravated View Post
    LMAO!

    The Pro BBs that are in the ads for this POS company all say that they only do it for the money. A friend of mine talked to Johnny Jackson at an Arnold one year and he said he doesn't even take any of the products.
    Ha! No flipping surprises there!

    I tried CellTech once - it made my pee smell funny.

    Next thing you know there will be a skinny guy on youtube crying his a## off saying "Leave MT alone" britney-style
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    I am using leukic and have no problems other than the horse size pills lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakellpet View Post
    yeah, you put me onto it thanks - reackon Drive is worth a shot mate? it sounds a little bit like PFull which Im currently taking

    yea!!! drive has to be top 3 supps (besaide staples multi v etc) i have ever used im stacking it right now with mass fx, AP and a couple other goodies never fails to work!! increased hunger most likly from the increased testosterone, im gonna throw in some Dermal 6 oxo soon so it should get pretty exciting!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBrightside View Post
    I was under the impression that MT's Leukic contains only Leucine- does it not?
    Its leucine attached to KIC, unfortunately, in the past 6 months there have been studies proving KIC neither to be anabolic or anti catabolic.

    Go with Avant Synthesize, IMO the best leucine based supp around, or if not looking for creatine then go for bulk leucine from NP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakellpet View Post
    yeah, you put me onto it thanks - reackon Drive is worth a shot mate? it sounds a little bit like PFull which Im currently taking
    Drive and RPM together has had the greatest effect on my strength.

    Glad to have pointed you in the right direction
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    yep yep yep drive and rpm are pretty legit!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LatSpread View Post
    Its leucine attached to KIC, unfortunately, in the past 6 months there have been studies proving KIC neither to be anabolic or anti catabolic.

    Go with Avant Synthesize, IMO the best leucine based supp around, or if not looking for creatine then go for bulk leucine from NP.
    It seems like there should have been some sort of legal action taken by a customer by now, since this is America. I mean, damn, two overweight women sued McDonald's for how much weight they put on because they ate there every day- and they almost won.

    Btw, looking into buying some bulk Leucine myself, unless I go with Xtend (heard the unflavored powder can be kind of brutal.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggravated View Post
    LMAO!

    The Pro BBs that are in the ads for this POS company all say that they only do it for the money. A friend of mine talked to Johnny Jackson at an Arnold one year and he said he doesn't even take any of the products.


    I feel so foolish!
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    definitely go with extend. and get the flavored. they all seem to taste great. ive tried grape, lemonade, and orange so far. no disappointments yet. ive noticed a big improvement in training and recovery since ive started taking it. should be a staple IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolandajoint View Post
    definitely go with extend. and get the flavored. they all seem to taste great. ive tried grape, lemonade, and orange so far. no disappointments yet. ive noticed a big improvement in training and recovery since ive started taking it. should be a staple IMO.

    couldnt u just buy bulk bcaas and eaas and just deal with the taste or mix with gatorade
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    extend is really the first type of bcaa supplement ive used. im sure down the road ill try that method as well. extend just tastes so good tho. plus you stay away from all the sugars and sh*t from something like gatorade.
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    i take 12g leucine preworkout, and it works amazingly well throughout my entire workout, downside, is that it doesnt mix for****...even my shaker cups and blender cant mix this stuff in water...
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    instead of chokin down tons of lucine, try 3-4 grams of hmb a day cause thats pretty much what ur tryin to do without knowing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigNemo View Post
    instead of chokin down tons of lucine, try 3-4 grams of hmb a day cause thats pretty much what ur tryin to do without knowing it.


    i agree HMB is a great supp! IMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigNemo View Post
    instead of chokin down tons of lucine, try 3-4 grams of hmb a day cause thats pretty much what ur tryin to do without knowing it.
    Good advice, I'd never heard of HMB before you mentioned it. I hear catfish/grapefruit/alfalfa have amounts of HMB in them. What are some other HMB-rich foods?
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    HMB (beta-hydroxy beta-methylbutyrate) was launched on to the sports supplement market back in 1996 by a rather savvy entrepreneur. It was a well-marketed product, surrounded by a lot of hype and very little science. It is still one of the most advertised products in the sports supplement industry. Yet there is still only one research paper (published at the time of its launch) that demonstrates any muscle building effect from HMB use ¾ and that study used untrained individuals [1].

    There have been a number of reports presented in abstract form at various sports science conferences around the world and some have showed beneficial effects [2-6]. Yet none of these studies have been published in full in a peer-reviewed journal. Why? I don't know. This is particularly odd as evidence of any nutritional supplement that can enhance body composition and athletic performance is such a hot topic. In May 2000, one published study involving experienced bodybuilders clearly demonstrated that HMB exerted no muscle building effect, even at double the prescribed dose [7].

    Recently, another research study involving experienced bodybuilders using HMB was published. This study examined HMB's muscle building effects during eight weeks of resistance training [8]. The results obtained were rather strange. The methodology used was very unusual and the way in which the data was interpreted by the researchers was very strange to say the least!

    The research….

    The study involved 37 male weight trainers divided into three groups. Group one was given 3-grams of HMB. Group two was given 6-grams and group three 0-grams (a sugar placebo) of HMB per day. Three grams of HMB per day is the prescribed dosage that will, supposedly, reduce muscle damage significantly and increase strength and lean mass. Body composition (lean and fat mass) was assessed, as well as strength (by 1-rep max), peak isokinetic torque in leg muscles and plasma creatine phosphokinase (PK) activity; this provides an indication of muscle damage.

    The results….

    After eight weeks of weight training, the data showed no differences between HMB or the placebo in peak muscle torque, muscle strength and body fat. Apart from the first weight training session, the data on PK levels showed no differences between the groups either. Remember, a reduction in muscle damage is one of the big claims made by the marketers of HMB. However, HMB failed to produce any significant reduction in PK levels, indicating that HMB supplementation does not reduce the muscle damage created by resistance training. This result was confirmed by a previous study [7].

    A reduction in muscle damage is one of the big claims made by the marketers of HMB. However, the research on experienced bodybuilders show that HMB does not reduce muscle damage.

    The data on changes in lean mass (muscle) obtained in the present study was not impressive either. In fact, the phase highly speculative comes to mind when assessing the results.

    In this study, the group taking 3-grams of HMB per day gained just under 4-pounds (1.9-kgs) of lean mass after 7-weeks of training. The group taking the placebo gained 2.2 pounds (1-kg), however, the group taking 6-grams of HMB per day did not produce any gain in muscle mass!

    Now, I aint the smartest guy walking around, but common logic dictates that if 3-grams of HMB per day increases muscle mass by around 4-pounds, then taking 6-grams (double the recommended dose) should produce at least the same gains, if not, more. However, in this study the group taking 6-grams of HMB a day produced zero gains! A result worse than the group taking a sugar-based placebo!

    The real eye-opener was the fact that the researchers (authors) of this study when on to suggest that HMB supplementation is effective at increasing muscle mass. I cannot see how results could possibly be interpreted in this way. "A very mixed result" would be a more realistic interpretation. However, read on because now the plot really thickens.

    This is the second study to demonstrate that taking 6-grams of HMB a day (double the prescribed dose) produces zero gains in muscle!

    When body composition assessment is the primary focus of a research study, the most accurate methods are almost always used. Underwater weighing and DEXA (duel energy x-ray absorptiometer) are the most reliable and credible methods of assessing changes in body fat and muscle mass. The researchers of this study chose to use only the skin fold caliper technique. Now, using skin fold calipers (pinching and measuring the skin fold) to guestimate body fat and muscle mass is okay for the local gym or fitness center. However, it is commonly known that even if the technician is highly skilled, there is still an enormous amount of room for error with this technique.

    In this day and age, when highly accurate body composition technology is readily avalible, the skin fold technique is a stone-age choice. As the sole method for body composition assessment in university research, it is a pitiful choice. Especially when you consider that this study was produced by one of the largest, best equipped university sports science facilities in the world.

    The clear science on HMB

    Let me be very clear on the research behind HMB for bodybuilding. To date there is only one paper that has been published that demonstrates any muscle building effect. This is the same paper used to initially launch HMB more than five years ago, and this research involved untrained subjects. Two studies that used trained lifters showed HMB produced zero benefits, at double the recommended dose. The most recent research has produced results that are best, unconvincing, and after carefull assessment can only be described as highly questionable.

    Don't get me wrong; I have no problem with any company that can manufacture a quality supplement that works. The entire industry gains credibility when this happens.

    However, the fact is that HMB continues to be marketed to athletes as a supplement that enhances recovery, strength and muscle growth. This is a complete sham. I do have a problem with marketers hyping a supplement as a research-proven muscle builder while the real scientific evidence shows the complete opposite. The next time you see an advertisement promoting HMB as a research-proven supplement that builds muscle, be very skeptical. Not only of the product, but also supplement company that markets it.

    References

    1.Nissen, S., R. Sharp, M. Ray, et al. Effects of leucine metabolite B-hydroxy B-methylbutyrate on muscle metabolism during resistance-exercise training. J. Appl. Physiol. 81: 2095-2104, 1996.

    2.Abumrad, N., B. Phillips, and W. Cheng.B -hydroxy B-methylbutyrate increases fatty acid oxidation by muscle cells (Abstract). FASEB J. 11:1997.

    3.Nissen, S., L. Panton, J. Fuller, Jr., D. Rice, and R. Sharp. Effects of feeding B- hydroxy B-methylbutyrate (HMB) on body composition and strength of women (Abstract). FASEB J. 11:1997.

    4.Nissen, S., L. Panton, R. Wilhelm, and J. C. Fuller, Jr. Effects of B-hydroxy B-methylbutyrate (HMB) supplementation on strength and body composition of trained and untrained males undergoing intense resistance training (Abstract). FASEB J. 10: A287, 1996.

    5.Ostaszewksi, P., S. Kostiuk, B. Balasinska, I. Papet, F. Glomot, and S. Nissen. The effects of 3-hydroxy 3-methyl butyrate (HMB) on muscle protein synthesis and protein breakdown in chick and rat muscle (Abstract). J. Anim. Sci. 74: 138, 1996.

    6.Vuckovich, M. D., N. D. Stubbs, R. M. Bohlken, M. F. Desch, J. C. Fuller, Jr., and J. A. Rathmacher. The effects of dietary B-hydroxy B-methylbutyrate (HMB) on strength gains and body composition changes in older adults (Abstract). FASEB J. 12(5): A652, 1998.

    7. Kreider RB; Ferreira M; Wilson M; Almada AL. Effects of calcium B-Hydroxy-B-methylbutyrate (HMB) supplementation during resistance-training on markers of catabolism, body composition and strength. Int.J.Sports Med. 20:503-509; Dec 1999.

    8. Gallagher PM; Carrithers JA; Godard MP; Schulze KE; Trappe SW. Beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate ingestion, Part I: effects on strength and fat free mass. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 32(12):2109-15, 2000.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    HMB (beta-hydroxy beta-methylbutyrate) was launched on to the sports supplement market back in 1996 by a rather savvy entrepreneur. It was a well-marketed product, surrounded by a lot of hype and very little science. It is still one of the most advertised products in the sports supplement industry. Yet there is still only one research paper (published at the time of its launch) that demonstrates any muscle building effect from HMB use ¾ and that study used untrained individuals [1].

    There have been a number of reports presented in abstract form at various sports science conferences around the world and some have showed beneficial effects [2-6]. Yet none of these studies have been published in full in a peer-reviewed journal. Why? I don't know. This is particularly odd as evidence of any nutritional supplement that can enhance body composition and athletic performance is such a hot topic. In May 2000, one published study involving experienced bodybuilders clearly demonstrated that HMB exerted no muscle building effect, even at double the prescribed dose [7].

    Recently, another research study involving experienced bodybuilders using HMB was published. This study examined HMB's muscle building effects during eight weeks of resistance training [8]. The results obtained were rather strange. The methodology used was very unusual and the way in which the data was interpreted by the researchers was very strange to say the least!

    The research….

    The study involved 37 male weight trainers divided into three groups. Group one was given 3-grams of HMB. Group two was given 6-grams and group three 0-grams (a sugar placebo) of HMB per day. Three grams of HMB per day is the prescribed dosage that will, supposedly, reduce muscle damage significantly and increase strength and lean mass. Body composition (lean and fat mass) was assessed, as well as strength (by 1-rep max), peak isokinetic torque in leg muscles and plasma creatine phosphokinase (PK) activity; this provides an indication of muscle damage.

    The results….

    After eight weeks of weight training, the data showed no differences between HMB or the placebo in peak muscle torque, muscle strength and body fat. Apart from the first weight training session, the data on PK levels showed no differences between the groups either. Remember, a reduction in muscle damage is one of the big claims made by the marketers of HMB. However, HMB failed to produce any significant reduction in PK levels, indicating that HMB supplementation does not reduce the muscle damage created by resistance training. This result was confirmed by a previous study [7].

    A reduction in muscle damage is one of the big claims made by the marketers of HMB. However, the research on experienced bodybuilders show that HMB does not reduce muscle damage.

    The data on changes in lean mass (muscle) obtained in the present study was not impressive either. In fact, the phase highly speculative comes to mind when assessing the results.

    In this study, the group taking 3-grams of HMB per day gained just under 4-pounds (1.9-kgs) of lean mass after 7-weeks of training. The group taking the placebo gained 2.2 pounds (1-kg), however, the group taking 6-grams of HMB per day did not produce any gain in muscle mass!

    Now, I aint the smartest guy walking around, but common logic dictates that if 3-grams of HMB per day increases muscle mass by around 4-pounds, then taking 6-grams (double the recommended dose) should produce at least the same gains, if not, more. However, in this study the group taking 6-grams of HMB a day produced zero gains! A result worse than the group taking a sugar-based placebo!

    The real eye-opener was the fact that the researchers (authors) of this study when on to suggest that HMB supplementation is effective at increasing muscle mass. I cannot see how results could possibly be interpreted in this way. "A very mixed result" would be a more realistic interpretation. However, read on because now the plot really thickens.

    This is the second study to demonstrate that taking 6-grams of HMB a day (double the prescribed dose) produces zero gains in muscle!

    When body composition assessment is the primary focus of a research study, the most accurate methods are almost always used. Underwater weighing and DEXA (duel energy x-ray absorptiometer) are the most reliable and credible methods of assessing changes in body fat and muscle mass. The researchers of this study chose to use only the skin fold caliper technique. Now, using skin fold calipers (pinching and measuring the skin fold) to guestimate body fat and muscle mass is okay for the local gym or fitness center. However, it is commonly known that even if the technician is highly skilled, there is still an enormous amount of room for error with this technique.

    In this day and age, when highly accurate body composition technology is readily avalible, the skin fold technique is a stone-age choice. As the sole method for body composition assessment in university research, it is a pitiful choice. Especially when you consider that this study was produced by one of the largest, best equipped university sports science facilities in the world.

    The clear science on HMB

    Let me be very clear on the research behind HMB for bodybuilding. To date there is only one paper that has been published that demonstrates any muscle building effect. This is the same paper used to initially launch HMB more than five years ago, and this research involved untrained subjects. Two studies that used trained lifters showed HMB produced zero benefits, at double the recommended dose. The most recent research has produced results that are best, unconvincing, and after carefull assessment can only be described as highly questionable.

    Don't get me wrong; I have no problem with any company that can manufacture a quality supplement that works. The entire industry gains credibility when this happens.

    However, the fact is that HMB continues to be marketed to athletes as a supplement that enhances recovery, strength and muscle growth. This is a complete sham. I do have a problem with marketers hyping a supplement as a research-proven muscle builder while the real scientific evidence shows the complete opposite. The next time you see an advertisement promoting HMB as a research-proven supplement that builds muscle, be very skeptical. Not only of the product, but also supplement company that markets it.

    References

    1.Nissen, S., R. Sharp, M. Ray, et al. Effects of leucine metabolite B-hydroxy B-methylbutyrate on muscle metabolism during resistance-exercise training. J. Appl. Physiol. 81: 2095-2104, 1996.

    2.Abumrad, N., B. Phillips, and W. Cheng.B -hydroxy B-methylbutyrate increases fatty acid oxidation by muscle cells (Abstract). FASEB J. 11:1997.

    3.Nissen, S., L. Panton, J. Fuller, Jr., D. Rice, and R. Sharp. Effects of feeding B- hydroxy B-methylbutyrate (HMB) on body composition and strength of women (Abstract). FASEB J. 11:1997.

    4.Nissen, S., L. Panton, R. Wilhelm, and J. C. Fuller, Jr. Effects of B-hydroxy B-methylbutyrate (HMB) supplementation on strength and body composition of trained and untrained males undergoing intense resistance training (Abstract). FASEB J. 10: A287, 1996.

    5.Ostaszewksi, P., S. Kostiuk, B. Balasinska, I. Papet, F. Glomot, and S. Nissen. The effects of 3-hydroxy 3-methyl butyrate (HMB) on muscle protein synthesis and protein breakdown in chick and rat muscle (Abstract). J. Anim. Sci. 74: 138, 1996.

    6.Vuckovich, M. D., N. D. Stubbs, R. M. Bohlken, M. F. Desch, J. C. Fuller, Jr., and J. A. Rathmacher. The effects of dietary B-hydroxy B-methylbutyrate (HMB) on strength gains and body composition changes in older adults (Abstract). FASEB J. 12(5): A652, 1998.

    7. Kreider RB; Ferreira M; Wilson M; Almada AL. Effects of calcium B-Hydroxy-B-methylbutyrate (HMB) supplementation during resistance-training on markers of catabolism, body composition and strength. Int.J.Sports Med. 20:503-509; Dec 1999.

    8. Gallagher PM; Carrithers JA; Godard MP; Schulze KE; Trappe SW. Beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate ingestion, Part I: effects on strength and fat free mass. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 32(12):2109-15, 2000.
    Disappointing, but very interesting, and I am very glad you posted. Finally a report that breaks down the study into layman's terms.
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    Well if people are bashing leukic at least its a product that works. Even though its expenisve. HMB now price cheep or not cheep still does not work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    Well if people are bashing leukic at least its a product that works. Even though its expenisve. HMB now price cheep or not cheep still does not work.

    i have heard leukic is good! what company sells it in bulk if any??
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    only bulk leucine not bulk leucine+kic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LatSpread View Post
    Its leucine attached to KIC, unfortunately, in the past 6 months there have been studies proving KIC neither to be anabolic or anti catabolic.

    What is KIC?
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    only bulk leucine not bulk leucine+kic.

    o well
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    Well if people are bashing leukic at least its a product that works. Even though its expenisve. HMB now price cheep or not cheep still does not work.
    Agreed...and the only thing Ive read to discredit KIC is something about it not increasing exercise performance when taken alone within a 24 hr. period. This has nothing to do with its synergistic or long term muscle building potential when combined with Leucine.
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    What do you mean Muscle Yech is not any good? Next thing you'll be telling me is "THE STRAP" is a scam.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big BAMA View Post
    What do you mean Muscle Yech is not any good? Next thing you'll be telling me is "THE STRAP" is a scam.
    I wonder if "Kemistry" (makers of Leukix), AllMax (Leutor-70),& MHP (Leukidrol-SR) feel pretty silly about making knock offs that don't work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by king1033 View Post
    i have heard leukic is good! what company sells it in bulk if any??
    I tried to request from NP, but no one else seemed interested. If you look, you can find the Kemistry version for $20. Almost bulk price.
    "I would be proud to sport that body on the beach, or for a hot date." -Dsade commenting on my pics
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cool View Post
    I tried to request from NP, but no one else seemed interested. If you look, you can find the Kemistry version for $20. Almost bulk price.
    Yeah, I also commented to N/P about it to give you some back-up . I personally think the stuff is really good, just too expensive from Muscle T.
    Ive seen Leukix mad cheap as well from one spot but the expiration date had already passed last month. I passed on it for that reason...I think its been discontinued so have to watch out for that expiration date of the product.
    Actually, Leutor-70 seems the highest quality knock-off..some say its better that Leukic because it has more KIC,and contains BCAA's not just leucine (thinking now, the leucine would be in lesser amounts so not sure thats a good thing). The bad news is its really not much cheaper either..maybe a $5 savings at best.
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    it would be great if NP offered Bulk KIC even seperatly from their bulk Leucine...buying both should still prove economical over purchasing Leukic.
  

  
 

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