Mateine and Caffeine not the same

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    Mateine and Caffeine not the same


    I was searching for some possible thermogenics/fatloss/energy-enhancers that lack some of the ill side effects of many popular items... So I thought of mateine and I remembered that it has 'caffeine-like' effects, so I did some searching on the still ongoing debate on whether it even exists or not. I found some good, legit studies proving it does infact exist and that it is infact quite the choice for those who are hypersensetive to caffeine. Only one way to find out

    Anyways, here...

    The xanthines draw a lot of attention because they number among them some traditional nasties, chief of which is caffeine. Others are theophylline and theobromine. All of the xanthines have a similar stereo-chemistry but each has its own unique set of properties. For many years, and even now, in some sectors, yerbamate' was (is) thought to contain caffeine. It turns out that mateine is not identical to caffeine; it differs from caffeine in some rather dramatic ways. Some members of the scientific community still resort to calling mateine a South American term for caffeine, or to maintaining, in perfect knowledge of the falseness of the assertion, that two substances so similar chemically must have the same properties. Slowly, they are being forced to acknowledge the distinction between mateine and caffeine.

    Modern studies seem to validate the difference between mate' and other xanthines-containing plants, such as guarana. Stereo-chemical and clinical work on xanthines in the last couple of decades have shown that, though similar in structure, the members of this class have widely varying pharmacology. In fact, there is only one effect that seems to be shared by all trimethyl xanthines: smooth muscle relaxation. It is this action that makes them with the exception of caffeine, whose smooth muscle relaxant effects are diminished by other side effects, good clinical dilators of the bronchi and hence useful in the treatment of asthma.

    "Over the past year, I have been giving the Yerba mate' tea to my patients who need to stop using caffeine-containing products for health reasons. I have had good feedback on the results. I like having a healthful substitute for coffee, tea and colas to offer them." K.L.P., M.D.

    Chemical assays on mate' have traditionally looked for caffeine, and in such tests mateine, being a simple stereo-isomer of caffeine, would test positive. Until recently nobody has looked at the exact structure of the molecule--and, to my knowledge, nobody in the United States has ever made the attempt. Researchers at the Free Hygienic Institute of Homburg, Germany, concluded that even if there were caffeine in mate', the amount would be so tiny that it would take 100 tea bags of mate' in a six ounce cup of water to equal the caffeine in a six ounce serving of regular coffee. They make the rather astute observation that it is obvious that the active principle in yerbamate' is not caffeine! But then, we know for sure it is not caffeine, for caffeine is not present at all.

    Mateine, then, has a unique pharmacology and it is unfair to compare it to caffeine (incidentally, guarana may not contain caffeine either--it may contain something that could be called guaraneine--however that substance looks like it is more deleterious than caffeine!). Mateine appears to possess the best combination of xanthine properties possible. For example, like other xanthines, it stimulates the central nervous system, but unlike most, it is not habituating or addicting. Likewise, unlike caffeine, it induces better, not worse, attributes of sleep. It is a mild, not a strong, diuretic, as are many xanthines. It relaxes peripheral blood vessels, thereby reducing blood pressure, without the strong pressor effect on the medulla and heart exhibited by some xanthines. We also know that it improves psychomotor performance without the typical xanthine-induced depressant after effects.

    Dr. Jose Martin, Director of the National Institute of Technology in Paraguay, writes, "New research and better technology have shown that while mate'ine has a chemical constituency similar to caffeine, the molecular binding is different. Mateine has none of the ill effects of caffeine." And Horacio Conesa, professor at the University of Buenos Aires Medical School, states, "There is not a single medical contraindication" for ingesting mate'. Clinical studies show, in fact, that individuals with caffeine sensitivities can ingest mate' without adverse reactions.

    The time has come, therefore, to discard the outmoded ideas that (1) xanthines are all alike, (2) that yerbamate' contains caffeine, and (3) that mateine is identical with caffeine. It would be tragic indeed if nature created such a beneficial plant and then, through some bizarre quirk, contaminated it with caffeine. It is more likely that mate' is, as some say, "Natures most perfect beverage," or, as others maintain, "the beverage of the Gods."

    Summarizing the clinical studies of France, Germany, Argentina and other countries, it appears that we may be dealing here with the most powerful rejuvenator known to man. Unlike the guarana of the Tupi, the coca of the Incas, the coffee of India, or the tea of China, mate' rejuvenates not by the false hopes of caffeine, but simply through the wealth of its nutrients.
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    Force of Green:

    I to am looking for a good fat burner that is caffeine free. I am caffeine sensitive. I am looking for something to speed up my metabolism, without the caffeine (legal).

    Would love for some of these seasoned veterans to speak up, and hopefully share their experiences with some possible alternatives.
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    Where exactly did that info come from?

    Its my understanding and belief that mate` does contains caffeine (less than coffee or tea) as well as a high number of other substances (minerals / alkaloids etc), as well as extra theophylline (compared to straight caffeine), that gives it the effect it has.
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    Hey Skigazzi, here's a good finding that was done on caffeine/mateine content in yerba mate. It's unfortunate that even this debate is full of propaganda and misleading information, however, it is indeed true that mateine is different from caffeine in many ways. One of the most interesting things I find about mateine is it's ability to stimulate a depressed CNS and it's ability to relax an overstimulated one.

    Anyways, here's the finding:

    Chemical assays on mate have traditionally looked for caffeine. In such tests
    mateine, would test positive. Until recently nobody has looked at the exact
    structure of the molecule -- and, to my knowledge, nobody in the United States
    has ever made the attempt. Researchers at the Free Hygienic Institute of
    Hamburg, Germany, concluded that even if there were caffeine in mate, the
    amount would be so tiny that it would take 100 tea bags of mate in a six ounce
    cup of water to equal the caffeine in a six ounce serving of regular coffee. They
    make the rather astute observation that it is obvious that the active principle in
    Yerba Mate is not caffeine! But then, we know for sure it is not caffeine, for
    caffeine is not present at all.
    Mateine has a unique pharmacology and it is unfair to compare it to caffeine.
    Mateine appears to possess the best combination of methylxanthine properties
    possible. For examples:
    1. Like other methylxanthines it stimulates the central nervous system; but
    unlike most, it is not habituating or addicting.
    2. Unlike caffeine, it is a very mild diuretic, as are many methylxanthines.
    3. It relaxes peripheral blood vessels, thereby reducing blood pressure
    without the strong presser effects on the medulla and heart exhibited by
    some methylxanthines.
    4. We also know that it improves psychomotor performance without the
    typical methylxanthine-induced depressant after effects.
    5. Dr. Jose Martin, Director of the National Institute of Technology in
    Paraguay, writes, 'New research and better technology have shown that
    while mateine has a chemical constituency similar to caffeine, the
    molecular binding is different.
    6. Mateine has none of the ill effects of caffeine.' And Horacio Conesa,
    professor at the University of Buenos Aires Medical School, states, 'There
    is not a single medical contradiction' for ingesting mate.
    7. Clinical studies show, in fact, that individuals with caffeine sensitivities can
    ingest mate without adverse reactions says Daniel B. Mowrey, PhD
    The Yerba Maté's methylxanthine rate averages 1.60%, whereas it is 1.10% in
    infusions.
    Average Mineral Composition of Yerba Maté is 7% of its dry weight,
    including calcium, potassium, magnesium, iron, etc. There is no need to
    worry about mineral loss when drinking this herb.
    Therapeutic Properties
    Yerba Maté is basically a very gentle stimulant drink (alleviates fatigue),
    stimulating metal and physical activity. It has a beneficial effect on nerves and
    muscles; it also enhances intellectual work.
    Due to the central stimulant effects of methylxanthine jointly with the activation of
    reserve substances, the cardiovascular activity strengthens the organism.
    methylxanthine has a well-known effect on the central nervous system, that
    stimulates mental energy.
    Thanks to its vitamin B complex, Yerba Maté collaborates with sugar intake in
    man's muscles, nerves and cerebral activity; vitamins C and E act as organic
    defense and on the organism's tissues; mineral salts, jointly with methylxanthine,
    help the cardiovascular work and blood circulation by decreasing blood pressure,
    since methylxanthine acts as a vasodilator. In such circumstances, hunger can
    feel as satisfied.
    Yerba Maté enhances diuresis (urination) and is very useful for bladder troubles.
    Yerba Maté also acts on the digestive tube by activating peristaltic movements; it
    facilitates digestion, attenuates gastric troubles and enhances evacuation and
    urination. Yerba Maté's stimulant action is longer than that of coffee and does not
    have side effects such as insomnia and irritability.
    Researches at the Paris Pasteur Institute confer to Yerba Maté a very important
    role in the cell regeneration process.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skigazzi View Post
    Where exactly did that info come from?

    Its my understanding and belief that mate` does contains caffeine (less than coffee or tea) as well as a high number of other substances (minerals / alkaloids etc), as well as extra theophylline (compared to straight caffeine), that gives it the effect it has.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDempster View Post
    Force of Green:

    I to am looking for a good fat burner that is caffeine free. I am caffeine sensitive. I am looking for something to speed up my metabolism, without the caffeine (legal).

    Would love for some of these seasoned veterans to speak up, and hopefully share their experiences with some possible alternatives.
    I think mateine and green tea extract would be a good combo to build from to burn some fat. Mateine has the same fat burning properties as caffeine, but does not cause the adrenal stress accompanied with caffeine use.

    If you were going to go for a fat-burning stack similar to that of an E/C/ (maybe A) stack, you could replace the caffeine with mateine and the ephedra with synephrine.

    Synephrine is a stimulant, similar to caffeine and ephedrine. It is thought to have similar effects in terms of providing an energy boost, suppressing appetite and increasing metabolic rate leading to the burning of more calories. It is used as a safer alternative to Ma Huang, synephrine is theorized to stimulate fat metabolism without the negative cardiovascular side effects experienced by some people with Ma Huang.
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    Here's some more on bitter orange extract (main alkaloid extract being synephrine).

    Known as zhi shi or bitter orange, Advantra is used in Chinese medicine to treat common complaints including indigestion and stomach ache as well as improve circulation and liver function. Now, new evidence suggests that it may work to help with weight loss as well.


    Unlike stimulants such as ma huang and ephedra, Advanta’s unique composition allows it to work as a catalyst for fat burning--without evoking a jittery feeling that’s common with ephedra. In fact, the active ingredient found in Advantra, synephrine, provides virtually the same great thermogenic effect of ephedra and ma huang without any cardiovascular or central nervous system side effects. Furthermore, research by the developers of Advantra indicates that it’s even more effective when used in conjunction with a healthy eating and exercise plan.
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    Thanks for the tips. I just purchased a bottle of Leviathan. There was a lot of good reviews on the site. one cap only contains 70mg of caffeine.
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    Dempster, I like Palo Alto Labs and have also heard good things about Leviathan. You could always add yerba mate tea to your regimine as it acts as a 'tonic', keeping you stimulated, but not overstimulated.

    I've been spending time reading a lot of reviews on yerba mate and everyone who drinks the tea says it woops coffee's @$$ and it is pretty euphoric.
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    Yerba mate` is very interesting stuff. My friend at the vitamin shoppe grabbed me a 1/2 lb bag of loose leaves. I heated 1/4 lb just below boiling point with 6 cups of water for 30 minutes, then strained it and then I put the liquid tea on simmer for another hour to concentrate it down to about 4 cups +/-. I drank an 8 oz glass before lunch and after about 10 minutes I could feel the energy creeping up. It wasn't a caffeine-type nervousness looming upon me, but more or less a slightly euphoric, motivational presence. About 30-40 minutes later I was in the shower and started laughing over something I saw printed on the tea container stating that it may cause me to void my bowels. I was laughing for about 15 minutes over it... The energy from Yerba Mate` (strongly brewed tea) lasts about 4-5 good hours with a slow drop-off period to extend to about 6 hours. Good IMO for a morning dose and an afternoon dose.

    The energy reminded me much of that of modafinil (provigil). What I mean is that, there is energy there for when you need it, motivation to get things done, and a definite mood-lift and increase in vigilance, however... unlike caffeine and amphetamines, there are no feelings of nervousness, irritability, and ansiness.

    I am planning on ordering some bulk yerba mate` by the kilo (5 bucks per kilo) and making a concentrated 'paste' of mate` solution and just having a bottle of mate` concentrate in the fridge to use as a shot of energy or a convenient mixer for premade iced tea.

    Supposedly yerba mate` does not interfere with sleep patterns and can actually increase the quality of dreams (users have reported increased recollection of vivid dreams).

    Another tea that has me intrigued for sleep is passionflower. I read of someone that has made a strong tea of passionflower and felt the intense need to lay down 10 minutes after drinking it. The dreams reported on passionflower have been INSANE as well. Passionflower teabags have done little for me in terms of pre-bed anxiety, however, I am interested in trying the actual bulk passionflower leaves and cooking up a passionflower concentrate. We'll see
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    I drink yerba mate in the afternoon. Nice stuff. The unsmoked is better than the smoked, but tastes like ass.
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    Yerba is a great stim... I worked out a little too hard yesterday after having not worked out in a while and my adrenalin spiked too high after the leg portion of my workout. I passed out on the mat for about 10 minutes and some of the members were concerned...

    I had to explain myself to the owner, because someone opened their mouth and exaggerated it... I worked out a little too intensely, I over-exerted myself, and instead of puking I went to the mat and laid on my back and zomped out until my heart-rate returned to a functional level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Yerba is a great stim... I worked out a little too hard yesterday after having not worked out in a while and my adrenalin spiked too high after the leg portion of my workout. I passed out on the mat for about 10 minutes and some of the members were concerned...

    I had to explain myself to the owner, because someone opened their mouth and exaggerated it... I worked out a little too intensely, I over-exerted myself, and instead of puking I went to the mat and laid on my back and zomped out until my heart-rate returned to a functional level.
    That's what we call a "quality" workout FOG. Any chance you can post up the recipe you would use to make the yerba paste. I'm kind of interested in trying this myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by prld2gr8ns View Post
    That's what we call a "quality" workout FOG. Any chance you can post up the recipe you would use to make the yerba paste. I'm kind of interested in trying this myself.
    What's happening Dustin? Some guy put a recipe on the 'Erowid' site, but I'm not sure how I'm going to do it. The important thing to remember is not to boil it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by prld2gr8ns View Post
    That's what we call a "quality" workout FOG. Any chance you can post up the recipe you would use to make the yerba paste. I'm kind of interested in trying this myself.
    Interested in the recipe as well. Oh and if you find a good price on bulk passion flower, let me know.
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    I PMed you an herbstore that carries bulk passion flower leaves and even powder by the pound. Passion flower is a very strong hypnotic when properly made and induces some VERY vivid dreams!
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    I am a skeptic by nature and never expect these types of products to be very effective, but I have to say Trip2night(narcomundo.com/legal-drugs/herbal-ecstasy/trip2night/) is better than most of the euphoric enhancers that I've tried. It mixes easily and taste better than I thought. It really provided me with what I was looking for. I felt totally satisfied with this euphoric enhancer. I enjoy going to clubs and bars and staying out all night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by YukSheeChan View Post
    I am a skeptic by nature and never expect these types of products to be very effective, but I have to say Trip2night(narcomundo.com/legal-drugs/herbal-ecstasy/trip2night/) is better than most of the euphoric enhancers that I've tried. It mixes easily and taste better than I thought. It really provided me with what I was looking for. I felt totally satisfied with this euphoric enhancer. I enjoy going to clubs and bars and staying out all night.
    Really? That's interesting, because you see... I enjoy ice cream, a nice pair of slacks, and negging spammers. We should totally hook up and have coffee.
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    lol, it's probably force of green back again again again again
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