[Sub7]

As you all remember, 3AD was the big thing back six months or so ago and unfortunately it never came out. 3AD has the same active, of course, as 11OXO, but at higher doses and it was intended to be used as a muscle builder as opposed to a cortisol control agent. Right around the time when 11OXO came out and 3AD hype died down, I had to take a break from the boards and haven't followed the news until I came back to check what is going on recently. I was expecting many people to use 11OXO at high doses as a muscle builder but to my surprise, there are very few logs or even discussions on that. I am amazed really. Maybe it is the price that is keeping people away from using the 6+ pills a day but c'mon. Some guys run just one cycle per year and even if you need 4 bottles of 11OXO, it is not that crazy amount of money for once a year.

So can someone please bring me up to date on the following -or direct me to a thread where these are discussed.

Is 11OXO liver toxic at doses of 600 mg to 1000 mg?

How supressive is it at 600 mg to 1000 mg? Do people think that we can expect full shutdown at 1000 mg per day?

What kind of gains can we expect if we run it as a stand-alone at 600 to 1000 mg per day as a bulker (if we run it alone, not stacked with something else)? Maybe we cannot so easily give a number such as "gain of 10 lbs in 4 weeks" but we should be able to compare it to other compounds. For example can we expect better or worse gains in terms of muscle mass compared to 30 mg per day of Epistane?

What would be the side effects at 600-1000 mg and what support supps would be needed to counter them. Serious adverse effects on lipids, blood pressure....?

If one were to stack it, what would be an ideal compound to stack this with?

[Sub7]

bumpy

[Zero Tolerance]

I'm shocked at the lack of information as well. But maybe it's just because if there were enough positive reviews, it would be taken off the market.

[Ziquor]

Way too weak & too $$$ IMO. I seen 4 logs where androstenedione was ran with the goal being lean bulk & nobody gained more than 2-3 pounds in a months time.

[mattikus]

Yeah this stuff isn't the big lean mass generator everybody thought it would be. Works ok for a cut though. I tried a couple bottles of it, went up to 800 mgs a day. Didn't do a whole lot for mass, but did lean me out a little bit. While I was on I did have all day muscle pumps, and it did make me a bit aggressive. Libido was all over the place. Would I do it again? I may throw it into a cutting cycle.

[LatSpread]

Havent used it yet, but Ive heard terrible reviews for bulking.

If you run this do so on a cut, regardless, when real gear is cheaper than PHs it kinda sad. 30$+ for every 10 days on 11oxo is unreasonable for the average costumer.

[edvanp]

I'm 34 days into a 40 day log of 11oxo. My goal is to cut while keeping lbm. I'm only down a couple of pounds from the start, but I'm visibly leaner and my strength is up. I'm taking 6 caps per day (2 caps x 3 dosages). When I started this, I was benching 275lbs x 5 reps. Last night I did 315lbs x 4 reps. Mood has been good, sleep has been good, libido off a little, joints seem a little dry (knees & wrists) and back is breaking out.

[Zero Tolerance]

Honestly, I don't know how everybody talks about getting gear like it's available at the local gas station. Ordering online seems very risky. The reason these PHs can sell for so much is because they're legal. If something worked half as good as testosterone but costed twice as much, you could bet it would sell like crazy. Not everybody has the heart, stomach or head for risking prison to obtain steroids.

[EasyEJL]

unless you are buying it in person from someone and its a sting, you have 0 chance of getting arrested. If you mail order from out of the country, the worst that happens is customs confiscates it. So its more about finding a reputable out of country site to buy from.

Its not just the price part, its also side effects that make some people go the gear route. personally I won't because i'm a blood donor, and that matters to me

[Zero Tolerance]

I don't want to hijack this topic - so I apologize.. But how about times where I hear people get the actual delivery from a federal agent? I mean, what then? Heck, in Florida, I can get jail time for ordering and receiving a research chemical.

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

unless you are buying it in person from someone and its a sting, you have 0 chance of getting arrested. If you mail order from out of the country, the worst that happens is customs confiscates it. So its more about finding a reputable out of country site to buy from.

Its not just the price part, its also side effects that make some people go the gear route. personally I won't because i'm a blood donor, and that matters to me

[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by Zero Tolerance

I don't want to hijack this topic - so I apologize.. But how about times where I hear people get the actual delivery from a federal agent? I mean, what then? Heck, in Florida, I can get jail time for ordering and receiving a research chemical.

The fed agent can't deliver it. Thats him possessing a known illegal chemical. Becomes entrapment then. You can also make it difficult to prove that it was you who ordered it (use a public computer and a prepaid visa card, create a new gmail account that day on that computer and never reuse it for instance) so the mere fact of accepting delivery is not enough to arrest you for.

I'm not a lawyer so you can take this with a grain of salt, but I can't imagine them arresting you.

[RBKing]

Originally Posted by mattikus

Yeah this stuff isn't the big lean mass generator everybody thought it would be. Works ok for a cut though. I tried a couple bottles of it, went up to 800 mgs a day. Didn't do a whole lot for mass, but did lean me out a little bit. While I was on I did have all day muscle pumps, and it did make me a bit aggressive. Libido was all over the place. Would I do it again? I may throw it into a cutting cycle.

WHAT? you mean Adrenosterone does NOT feel like 600 mgs of Test a week. I'm shocked... shocked I tell you. (I did cut up pretty good on it like most everyone else)

[nunes]

Originally Posted by edvanp

I'm 34 days into a 40 day log of 11oxo. My goal is to cut while keeping lbm. I'm only down a couple of pounds from the start, but I'm visibly leaner and my strength is up. I'm taking 6 caps per day (2 caps x 3 dosages). When I started this, I was benching 275lbs x 5 reps. Last night I did 315lbs x 4 reps. Mood has been good, sleep has been good, libido off a little, joints seem a little dry (knees & wrists) and back is breaking out.

your joint problems can happen because of your kind of training , low reps heavywheights , and let me tell you that the latest studies showed that sets between 10 and 15 reps are ideal for hypertrophy cause low reps heavywheights push myostatin to high levels blocking muscle hypertrophy, please don't see this post as a lesson, I respect everybody's training I`m just sharing what I read in the latest magazines flex and MD,
Off course this doesn`t apply if you are a powerlifter but I suspect you`re a bodybuilder.

[Zero Tolerance]

I think everybody thought, "I'll believe it when I see it" when that statement came out...

Originally Posted by RBKing

WHAT? you mean Adrenosterone does NOT feel like 600 mgs of Test a week. I'm shocked... shocked I tell you. (I did cut up pretty good on it like most everyone else)

[edvanp]

Originally Posted by nunes

your joint problems can happen because of your kind of training , low reps heavywheights , and let me tell you that the latest studies showed that sets between 10 and 15 reps are ideal for hypertrophy cause low reps heavywheights push myostatin to high levels blocking muscle hypertrophy, please don't see this post as a lesson, I respect everybody's training I`m just sharing what I read in the latest magazines flex and MD,
Off course this doesn`t apply if you are a powerlifter but I suspect you`re a bodybuilder.

Hello Nunes- I mainly lift for fitness, so I change things up. I very seldom do max's and I keep reps in the 6-14 range. I tried an "EPI" clone last summer and I felt my joints dry out a bit. I haven't read anyone else having issues with dry joints while taking 11oxo, but I've noticed it at 6 caps per day. It's not bad, just something that I've felt. But I also think my strength has taken off too, so 11oxo might work a bit better for me!?! Thanks for your thoughts.