11-OXO as a Pure Muscle Builder

[Sub7]

As you all remember, 3AD was the big thing back six months or so ago and unfortunately it never came out. 3AD has the same active, of course, as 11OXO, but at higher doses and it was intended to be used as a muscle builder as opposed to a cortisol control agent. Right around the time when 11OXO came out and 3AD hype died down, I had to take a break from the boards and haven't followed the news until I came back to check what is going on recently. I was expecting many people to use 11OXO at high doses as a muscle builder but to my surprise, there are very few logs or even discussions on that. I am amazed really. Maybe it is the price that is keeping people away from using the 6+ pills a day but c'mon. Some guys run just one cycle per year and even if you need 4 bottles of 11OXO, it is not that crazy amount of money for once a year.

So can someone please bring me up to date on the following -or direct me to a thread where these are discussed.

Is 11OXO liver toxic at doses of 600 mg to 1000 mg?

How supressive is it at 600 mg to 1000 mg? Do people think that we can expect full shutdown at 1000 mg per day?

What kind of gains can we expect if we run it as a stand-alone at 600 to 1000 mg per day as a bulker (if we run it alone, not stacked with something else)? Maybe we cannot so easily give a number such as "gain of 10 lbs in 4 weeks" but we should be able to compare it to other compounds. For example can we expect better or worse gains in terms of muscle mass compared to 30 mg per day of Epistane?

What would be the side effects at 600-1000 mg and what support supps would be needed to counter them. Serious adverse effects on lipids, blood pressure....?

If one were to stack it, what would be an ideal compound to stack this with?

 

[Sub7]

bumpy

 

[Zero Tolerance]

I'm shocked at the lack of information as well. But maybe it's just because if there were enough positive reviews, it would be taken off the market.

 

[Ziquor]

Way too weak & too $$$ IMO. I seen 4 logs where androstenedione was ran with the goal being lean bulk & nobody gained more than 2-3 pounds in a months time.

 

[mattikus]

Yeah this stuff isn't the big lean mass generator everybody thought it would be. Works ok for a cut though. I tried a couple bottles of it, went up to 800 mgs a day. Didn't do a whole lot for mass, but did lean me out a little bit. While I was on I did have all day muscle pumps, and it did make me a bit aggressive. Libido was all over the place. Would I do it again? I may throw it into a cutting cycle.

 

[LatSpread]

Havent used it yet, but Ive heard terrible reviews for bulking.

If you run this do so on a cut, regardless, when real gear is cheaper than PHs it kinda sad. 30$+ for every 10 days on 11oxo is unreasonable for the average costumer.

 

[edvanp]

I'm 34 days into a 40 day log of 11oxo. My goal is to cut while keeping lbm. I'm only down a couple of pounds from the start, but I'm visibly leaner and my strength is up. I'm taking 6 caps per day (2 caps x 3 dosages). When I started this, I was benching 275lbs x 5 reps. Last night I did 315lbs x 4 reps. Mood has been good, sleep has been good, libido off a little, joints seem a little dry (knees & wrists) and back is breaking out.

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Honestly, I don't know how everybody talks about getting gear like it's available at the local gas station. Ordering online seems very risky. The reason these PHs can sell for so much is because they're legal. If something worked half as good as testosterone but costed twice as much, you could bet it would sell like crazy. Not everybody has the heart, stomach or head for risking prison to obtain steroids.

 

[EasyEJL]

unless you are buying it in person from someone and its a sting, you have 0 chance of getting arrested. If you mail order from out of the country, the worst that happens is customs confiscates it. So its more about finding a reputable out of country site to buy from.

Its not just the price part, its also side effects that make some people go the gear route. personally I won't because i'm a blood donor, and that matters to me

 

[Zero Tolerance]

I don't want to hijack this topic - so I apologize.. But how about times where I hear people get the actual delivery from a federal agent? I mean, what then? Heck, in Florida, I can get jail time for ordering and receiving a research chemical.

unless you are buying it in person from someone and its a sting, you have 0 chance of getting arrested. If you mail order from out of the country, the worst that happens is customs confiscates it. So its more about finding a reputable out of country site to buy from.

Its not just the price part, its also side effects that make some people go the gear route. personally I won't because i'm a blood donor, and that matters to me

 

[EasyEJL]

I don't want to hijack this topic - so I apologize.. But how about times where I hear people get the actual delivery from a federal agent? I mean, what then? Heck, in Florida, I can get jail time for ordering and receiving a research chemical.

The fed agent can't deliver it. Thats him possessing a known illegal chemical. Becomes entrapment then. You can also make it difficult to prove that it was you who ordered it (use a public computer and a prepaid visa card, create a new gmail account that day on that computer and never reuse it for instance) so the mere fact of accepting delivery is not enough to arrest you for.

I'm not a lawyer so you can take this with a grain of salt, but I can't imagine them arresting you.

 

[RBKing]

Yeah this stuff isn't the big lean mass generator everybody thought it would be. Works ok for a cut though. I tried a couple bottles of it, went up to 800 mgs a day. Didn't do a whole lot for mass, but did lean me out a little bit. While I was on I did have all day muscle pumps, and it did make me a bit aggressive. Libido was all over the place. Would I do it again? I may throw it into a cutting cycle.

WHAT? you mean Adrenosterone does NOT feel like 600 mgs of Test a week. I'm shocked... shocked I tell you. (I did cut up pretty good on it like most everyone else)

 

[nunes]

I'm 34 days into a 40 day log of 11oxo. My goal is to cut while keeping lbm. I'm only down a couple of pounds from the start, but I'm visibly leaner and my strength is up. I'm taking 6 caps per day (2 caps x 3 dosages). When I started this, I was benching 275lbs x 5 reps. Last night I did 315lbs x 4 reps. Mood has been good, sleep has been good, libido off a little, joints seem a little dry (knees & wrists) and back is breaking out.

your joint problems can happen because of your kind of training , low reps heavywheights , and let me tell you that the latest studies showed that sets between 10 and 15 reps are ideal for hypertrophy cause low reps heavywheights push myostatin to high levels blocking muscle hypertrophy, please don't see this post as a lesson, I respect everybody's training I`m just sharing what I read in the latest magazines flex and MD,
Off course this doesn`t apply if you are a powerlifter but I suspect you`re a bodybuilder.:thumbsup:

 

[Zero Tolerance]

I think everybody thought, "I'll believe it when I see it" when that statement came out...

WHAT? you mean Adrenosterone does NOT feel like 600 mgs of Test a week. I'm shocked... shocked I tell you. (I did cut up pretty good on it like most everyone else)

 

[edvanp]

your joint problems can happen because of your kind of training , low reps heavywheights , and let me tell you that the latest studies showed that sets between 10 and 15 reps are ideal for hypertrophy cause low reps heavywheights push myostatin to high levels blocking muscle hypertrophy, please don't see this post as a lesson, I respect everybody's training I`m just sharing what I read in the latest magazines flex and MD,
Off course this doesn`t apply if you are a powerlifter but I suspect you`re a bodybuilder.:thumbsup:

Hello Nunes- I mainly lift for fitness, so I change things up. I very seldom do max's and I keep reps in the 6-14 range. I tried an "EPI" clone last summer and I felt my joints dry out a bit. I haven't read anyone else having issues with dry joints while taking 11oxo, but I've noticed it at 6 caps per day. It's not bad, just something that I've felt. But I also think my strength has taken off too, so 11oxo might work a bit better for me!?! Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[thesinner]

Just wanted to clarify.

3AD is NOT adrenosterone. AX has since found something much better (hence part of the reason why it's taking so long to be released), but decided to use the same name anyhow.

 

[FrankJ]

The fed agent can't deliver it. Thats him possessing a known illegal chemical. Becomes entrapment then. You can also make it difficult to prove that it was you who ordered it (use a public computer and a prepaid visa card, create a new gmail account that day on that computer and never reuse it for instance) so the mere fact of accepting delivery is not enough to arrest you for.

I'm not a lawyer so you can take this with a grain of salt, but I can't imagine them arresting you.

Ok, not to sound like a jerk but dont listen to this advice. Especially since he doesent use gear or run the risks himself of ordering it.

Get Legal Muscle by Rick Collins to know what your rights are, and what law enforcement can and cannot due. By listening to gossip like this on the net you may be unprepared when a critical situation occurs and you could end up screwing yourself badly, literally ruining your life.

Plenty of casual users are serving hard time for buying over the net. Not only that but losing their home, job, marriage. If you know what your rights are, and what LEO will do to get you, you can protect yourself from the worst of the damage, and likely get off scott free or with a slap on the wrist.

 

[ReaperX]

unless you are buying it in person from someone and its a sting, you have 0 chance of getting arrested. If you mail order from out of the country, the worst that happens is customs confiscates it. So its more about finding a reputable out of country site to buy from.

Its not just the price part, its also side effects that make some people go the gear route. personally I won't because i'm a blood donor, and that matters to me

huh ? How is taking a designer different from taking AAS ? Just the screening methods they use ?

 

[ReaperX]

Just wanted to clarify.

3AD is NOT adrenosterone. AX has since found something much better (hence part of the reason why it's taking so long to be released), but decided to use the same name anyhow.

:yawn:

 

[EasyEJL]

huh ? How is taking a designer different from taking AAS ? Just the screening methods they use ?

just the needles... So oral turinabol or dbol would be ok


And frank, just because I haven't talked about it, doesn't mean I haven't ordered it. but whats here is public and can be searchable and could be used to obtain a warrant for search so i wouldn't talk about it here if I did.

The controlled delivery really could only happen if you bought from someone in the US, who they raided and got your info from, and had enough supporting evidence (IP address of order, that sort of thing) to prove it was you who also placed the order. But using for instance a library computer, and a prepaid visa gift card that you used cash to buy, and ordering from outside of the US leaves them nothing to attempt an arrest on. At that point they have no way to prove you ordered it, and you accepting the delivery of a brown box from your postman is not grounds for arrest. At that point them attempting a controlled delivery where a fed agent drops it off and arrests you would be entrapment.

 

[tgass]

Great man, i just got 6 bottles of 11 TEST by Fast action for 16,95 each, they are 60 pills of 100mg of andrenosterone... :thumbsup:

 

[EasyEJL]

mind you, i'm going to order that book and see what it says

 

[warnerve]

LOL, easy, look at the green bar under your rep power. your activity level is 100%

and i gotta agree with frank...you can never be too careful ordering stuff online. it's not likely that you'll have problems, but search around, you can find some horror stories of people getting caught

 

[EasyEJL]

Great man, i just got 6 bottles of 11 TEST by Fast action for 16,95 each, they are 60 pills of 100mg of andrenosterone... :thumbsup:

looks like they are 60 pills of 50mg

still not too bad tho for that price

 

[Gutterpump]

I wasn't too impressed by 11oxo, dosed up to 600-800mg daily, but mostly stayed around 600. Maybe it needed to be dosed higher.

 

[FrankJ]

mind you, i'm going to order that book and see what it says

Good idea because you are still wrong on a couple important "facts" you quote and you could get yourself or somebody else reading this thread busted and f*cked for life.

 

[stl123]

Is 11OXO liver toxic at doses of 600 mg to 1000 mg?

How supressive is it at 600 mg to 1000 mg? Do people think that we can expect full shutdown at 1000 mg per day?

What kind of gains can we expect if we run it as a stand-alone at 600 to 1000 mg per day as a bulker (if we run it alone, not stacked with something else)? Maybe we cannot so easily give a number such as "gain of 10 lbs in 4 weeks" but we should be able to compare it to other compounds. For example can we expect better or worse gains in terms of muscle mass compared to 30 mg per day of Epistane?

What would be the side effects at 600-1000 mg and what support supps would be needed to counter them. Serious adverse effects on lipids, blood pressure....?

Sub7. Most of your questions are answered in the 11oxo FAQ on ergopharm's website.

It says that 11oxo does not pose any substantial strain on the liver.

They highly suggest PCT with doses 6 caps and up. Suppresion is likely in high doses.

As far as sides go, They say potiential sides are the same as with other ph's

Here is the link.. Hope this somewhat answers you questions.
http://ergopharm.net/tech_11oxo.php

 

[king1033]

there are some people using the 11-oxo in a dermal and getting pretty stellar results and u dont need to put that much stress on your liver popping so many pills if you go the TD route

 

[GuyverX]

our wonderful government
the fda approves prescriptions everyday with really bad side effects which make people have to take 10 or scrips a day to counter the effects of each other

but if bodybuilders and fitness guys want to take gear at theur own risk its a federal offense.

chalk one up to hypocrisy fellas.

I have a grudge to bear becasue I've had a couple of of relatives die from scrips prescribed by the doctor.
and they werent drinkers or illegal drug users or anything like that...
wasnt known od because the life insurance would not have paid their families.

 

[FrankJ]

but if bodybuilders and fitness guys want to take gear at theur own risk its a federal offense.

chalk one up to hypocrisy fellas.

Not only that but everywhere you look there are articles and doctors who want to prescribe female steroids to women for birth control and hormone replacement.

Why cant men take Deca for birth control? The side effects are less than female birth control ( hundreds of women have died of blood clots from birth control pills ) Why is male hormone replacement looked down on?

Its total bullsh1t.

 

[nunes]

I dont want to believe this compound its all pain(joints), no gain , is it?

 

[GuyverX]

Not only that but everywhere you look there are articles and doctors who want to prescribe female steroids to women for birth control and hormone replacement.

Why cant men take Deca for birth control? The side effects are less than female birth control ( hundreds of women have died of blood clots from birth control pills ) Why is male hormone replacement looked down on?

Its total bullsh1t.

thats true.
all about supporting the big pharma who collude with the fda.
'free trade' my kettlebell, lol

 

[stl123]

I dont want to believe this compound its all pain(joints), no gain , is it?

I don't believe so. I am on day 8 of 11oxo and as far as pain(joints) go I am having no problems(no sides at all so far). It probably is dependent on the dosing. I am currently doing a solo log on it if you want to check it out. However, I am @ 4 caps a day(300mg). I am currently not interested in dosing it at high level. I would not expect stellar weight gain on this, but it is working great as a cutting compound. My weight is staying right where I want and I am leaning out great.

 

[nunes]

I don't believe so. I am on day 8 of 11oxo and as far as pain(joints) go I am having no problems(no sides at all so far). It probably is dependent on the dosing. I am currently doing a solo log on it if you want to check it out. However, I am @ 4 caps a day(300mg). I am currently not interested in dosing it at high level. I would not expect stellar weight gain on this, but it is working great as a cutting compound. My weight is staying right where I want and I am leaning out great.

I believe that 300mgs its safe in the joints but I was referring higher doses(for mass gain) like 600mgs , I hope some guys that tried this doses can tell me that I`m wrong...
can you pass me the link to your log, thanks

 

[Gutterpump]

no joint pains when I took it.

 

[king1033]

I believe that 300mgs its safe in the joints but I was referring higher doses(for mass gain) like 600mgs , I hope some guys that tried this doses can tell me that I`m wrong...
can you pass me the link to your log, thanks

im hoping the same thing

 

[EasyEJL]

from ergopharm's site, a PCT isn't entirely necessary at 225mg/day, which is interesting

 

[king1033]

most likly its not strong enough at a dosage that low, i know a couple people who have used h-drol gained big but never need a pct and kept 90% of their gains (10-15 lbs) and they did it for 6 weeks and dosed it at 100mg ED, so i guess it depends on the compound

 

[Sub7]

Thanks Stl123... I have checked their site and as you mentioned, some of these issues have been addressed there.

king1033,
why in the world would you do this transdermally? It is hard enough to get the required dose orally. Also, there are no reports of this being liver toxic, so why make it harder on yourself by going the TD route?
Also, any logs or posts by those people who supposedly got "stellar results" from TD application? I never seen even one user who did TD with this...

 

[Gutterpump]

you can buy this compound in bulk, and it is more effective when applied TD.

Not only would it be more effective at a lower dose this way, but it would be more cost effective (buying bulk, using less compound)

 

[king1033]

you can buy this compound in bulk, and it is more effective when applied TD.

Not only would it be more effective at a lower dose this way, but it would be more cost effective (buying bulk, using less compound)

thank you for saving me from typing

 

[Gutterpump]

hehe np. I just wish I had taken my own advice when I ran it.

 

[Sub7]

I see
but what is the absorption rate when applied TD and what is the absorption rate -i.e. bioavailability- when taken oraly? how much are people using TD?

Thanks

 

[king1033]

I see
but what is the absorption rate when applied TD and what is the absorption rate -i.e. bioavailability- when taken oraly? how much are people using TD?

Thanks

not too many people to be honest are even aware of what transdermal is. and you only need to take around half as much to get the same effect because it gets proccessed in your stomach acids and not your liver if im not mistaken someone can correct me if im off by a little.

later!

 

[EasyEJL]

I see
but what is the absorption rate when applied TD and what is the absorption rate -i.e. bioavailability- when taken oraly? how much are people using TD?

Thanks

Truthfully I think nobody knows. The problem is that it requires at least some blood testing to be able to be sure, and since no one sells a transdermal adrenosterone, its not too likely someone will fund blood tests for that specific compound....

One company sells the raws, and a transdermal matrix (and believes they work well together) but i dont think they have done blood testing

 

[stl123]

I believe that 300mgs its safe in the joints but I was referring higher doses(for mass gain) like 600mgs , I hope some guys that tried this doses can tell me that I`m wrong...
can you pass me the link to your log, thanks

Here you go. I am posting some pics tonight.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/87881-11oxo-log.html

 

[Sub7]

bump for more opinions on this

 

[msucurt]

not too many people to be honest are even aware of what transdermal is. and you only need to take around half as much to get the same effect because it gets proccessed in your stomach acids and not your liver if im not mistaken someone can correct me if im off by a little.

later!

If one were to buy this 11-oxo in bulk, where is the link that discusses how to mix these 2 for a transdermal? (i remember reading it, but cant remember where now)

Would like to maybe run this in a transdermal for $$ sake..

thanks

 

[king1033]

im thinking of a 19 nor (xtreme tren) TD run

 

[msucurt]

im thinking of a 19 nor (xtreme tren) TD run

now that sounds interesting. What brand of xtreme tren are u going to use? (SORRY if this is a dumb question, as i have seen a few brands and i think amercan cellular labs makes some of this...i think)

thanks