Is this controversial?

[IvyLeaguePump]

I think all NO products are junk.

With the pre-work out mixes, its really just the caffeine that gives you a boost, and it won't lead to an increase of strength.

:stick:

 

[nephilim666]

agreed. all those things ever do is give me stomach problems and nasty burps

 

[AM07]

NO products are ****. I've tried NO Xplod, and it didn't do anything for me.

Also, why did you choose this as the title for the thread?

 

[IvyLeaguePump]

NO products are ****. I've tried NO Xplod, and it didn't do anything for me.

Also, why did you choose this as the title for the thread?

because it seems like they sell really well!

 

[MisterEZE]

I think all NO products are junk.

With the pre-work out mixes, its really just the caffeine that gives you a boost, and it won't lead to an increase of strength.

:stick:

Definitely not the first time I've heard this...and I won't disagree with you at all. A lot of guys at the gym swear by them, but then again, I'm still way bigger than they are. An expensive placebo...

 

[Red Dog]

I don't completely agree with this..

while I'll give you that many of the products are overrated and not worth the money, there are some pre-workout supps that certainly give me a noticed increase in power, endurance, blood flow and energy. I think RPM and Ragnarok are both products that are certainly worth their price..

Caffiene is a part of it, but I use caffiene-free Rag and easily notice the difference in the fields I said above..

So while some NO products are bunk, there are pre-workout supps that certainly do deliver

 

[bigpoppapump2]

I think all NO products are junk.

With the pre-work out mixes, its really just the caffeine that gives you a boost, and it won't lead to an increase of strength.

:stick:

agreed

 

[WhenAllFails]

there is a slightly proven science behind Nitric Oxide boosters, but I do agree most aren't worth much. Some, like CL's White Flood or Superpump 250 do help somewhat. But you're better off just dosing some L-arginine, caffeine and such before a workout for a similar but way less expensive effect.

 

[Big Dane]

They're garbage. I work out in the morning and coffee is my pre workout beverage, water as I lift.

 

[Alexander]

there is a slightly proven science behind Nitric Oxide boosters, but I do agree most aren't worth much. Some, like CL's White Flood or Superpump 250 do help somewhat. But you're better off just dosing some L-arginine, caffeine and such before a workout for a similar but way less expensive effect.

Agreed. Make your own cheap NO booster from bulk. Caffeine/Arginine/Cit Malate/Beta Alanine in bulk from NP will last a long time and won't cost much. The pumps are inspiring, but not much else. Inspiration matters though, even if it's a bit of a lie.

 

[WhenAllFails]

Agreed. Make your own cheap NO booster from bulk. Caffeine/Arginine/Cit Malate/Beta Alanine in bulk from NP will last a long time and won't cost much. The pumps are inspiring, but not much else. Inspiration matters though, even if it's a bit of a lie.

I was just thinking things along those lies. In a sense i'll give credit to NO Boosters when it gives people the drive to work out, whether or not it actually works. It gives them the placebo effect of making them think it works. The Physiological effects of placebos are almost as potent as the products themselves. I remember reading a study on the use of Opiate based pain killers and the group given the placebo was nearly as, well, pain relieved as the group taking the prescription meds.

Not saying Muscle Crap and Bull Sh1t Nutrition are right, but they're doing a slight amount less harm than i'd think.

 

[stxnas]

I would opt for a caffeine free pre-workout supp. Caffeine is a vasoconstrictor and is counterproductive to a good workout pump. I opt for some Creatine, Arginine, and Citruline Malate with some BCAAs (caffeine free Chaos and Excell mixed together).

I know some of you probably can't workout without caffeine though, lol.

 

[warbird01]

agreed. all those things ever do is give me stomach problems and nasty burps

x2.

 

[ReaperX]

Well, it depends. There is actually nitric oxide uptake in your body. This is a scientific fact.

As far as if products increase this is another story.

 

[SFRANGER]

I don't think that NO products have ever led to a gain in muscle size or strength directly - however, I still enjoy taking them sometimes because I like the psychological effect of seeing and feeling the extra pump. Definitely not something that I use consistently or that I would spend much money on.

P-Slin with a little creatine gives me just as much pump as any NO product, plus a ton of endurance...and I feel like it is doing more than just a mental stroke off.

 

[The G Train]

This is kinda why I switched over to just sugar free energy drinks. I wish a company would come out with just an energy enhancer with aminos or hydrolyzed protein added in, but no creatine or arginine.

My ideal product would look something like Xtend, Poseidon, Taurine, and a good stimulant blend that doesnt heavily rely on caffeine, ie. tyrosine, green tea extract, glucuronolactone.

 

[Dancebot 2000]

Dave Barr posted a great article about the pointlessness of arganine products. All of the scientific data that has come back from research indicates that Arganine does nothing except possibly increase strength output. No gains were made by double blind test groups using arganine.

 

[SFRANGER]

This is kinda why I switched over to just sugar free energy drinks. I wish a company would come out with just an energy enhancer with aminos or hydrolyzed protein added in, but no creatine or arginine.

My ideal product would look something like Xtend, Poseidon, Taurine, and a good stimulant blend that doesnt heavily rely on caffeine, ie. tyrosine, green tea extract, glucuronolactone.

I agree with you on this. I have been using 'power jolt' which relies mainly on ALCAR, Sulbutiamine and tyrosine for energy (There is some caffeine, but its very low compared to almost everything else that is preWO on the market). It's pretty cheap...and effective. I like to stack it with XTEND. The endurance is great from this stack and I don't feel stim'd out of my mind.

 

[Hyde12]

I like Ragnarok and RPM. With Ragnarok, I don't get a lot of energy, but strength and endurance is increased. RPM....everyone knows the deal with that.

 

[IvyLeaguePump]

Thanks for the responses.

It just seems to me that, for these pre-workout mixes, they throw in some stuff they know works (creatine, caffeine, aminos) and hype up NO and slap a $50.00 price tag on it.... maybe its the caffeine and creatine thats giving you the "pump"?

Maybe I'm just skeptical.

I'd love to see some studies on NO, if anyone has the links.

 

[Big BAMA]

1) don't pay $50.00 go to Nutraplanet
2) I take them but not for strength, I like the stim's. Raganok is da shizz

 

[LosPepes]

I know probably no one will agree with me, I take them. I'm almost a junkie on them, its part of my routine, maybe ritual. I notice I'm more focused in the gym, maybe its all mental, but I'm in the zone after I take it. I've used NO xplod, Shock Therapy, super pump 250 and am currently taking NO shotgun. So far I think the best was Shock Therapy, it was pretty mild as far as stimulants go. NO Shotgun tastes like crap and makes my stomach a little upset.

 

[bolt10]

in general i don't think straight NO products are pretty useless bc with training and nutrition you should get a good pump. i don't think the pre-wo supps are useless though as something like Rag is alot more and u can even get it without the caffeine...

so in short i don't agree they are useless but i feel they are more cosmetic and not something i consistently use...

 

[ShakesAllDay]

The big question is does the 'pump' promote increases in muscle size?

I've read a few places about the 'fascia' that envelopes muscles, bones, joints, etc. It has been said that you need to stretch the fascia in order to give your muscles room to grow.

In this case, an extreme pump would be beneficial.

Thoughts?

 

[bolt10]

The big question is does the 'pump' promote increases in muscle size?

I've read a few places about the 'fascia' that envelopes muscles, bones, joints, etc. It has been said that you need to stretch the fascia in order to give your muscles room to grow.

In this case, an extreme pump would be beneficial.

Thoughts?

yea thats interesting...when im on glycergrow and using higher volume i try to do extreme stretching for that days muscle group at the end of the workout...i have seen some improvement with this method. its worth experimenting with but its not something i always do

 

[propho]

I see nothing in NO2 products.. I used to take em but haven't in a while.. I got some leftover bulk arginine i may cap for the sake of not wasting it..

 

[strategicmove]

The big question is does the 'pump' promote increases in muscle size?...

Not directly. The vasodilation/pump has the advantage that the dramatically improved blood circulation can help create an anabolic environment by flooding muscle tissue with important nutrients, saturating them to produce ergogenic effects. The "pump" is basically a vehicle. This is why, if you are pumped, you can utilize the so-called "anabolic window of opportunity" (the time window up to 90 minutes after workout) to consume macronutrients that can be rapidly transported to needy muscle tissue to create anabolism.

By the way, nitric oxide is not useless. Without nitric oxide, vasodilation will not occur!

 

[djbombsquad]

I don’t know where the marketers obtained their literature on nitric oxide. Although nitric oxide acts as a cell-to-cell communicator for certain metabolic functions, muscle growth is not one of them. After a looking at google of the available literature I cannot find any research that shows increasing nitric oxide levels plays a part in increasing protein synthesis strength or any other pathway that may lead to increases in muscle mass.

There also appears to be no evidence whatsoever that shows increasing nitric oxide levels enhances endurance, power output, and load capacity.

Arginine alpha-ketogluterate is the “active” ingredient reported by one company that sells this type of supplement. It is claimed that this compound increases and maintains a constantly high level of nitric oxide in muscle. While there is a lot of research on the effects of nitric oxide, there is no research that shows supplementation with arginine alpha-ketogluterate increases or sustains nitric oxide levels in any human or animal organs.

When new products burst onto the market, I can cut through the advertising hype.

The fact is, there is no science supporting any of the claims made for so-called nitric oxide supplements. There is no science showing they have any effect on nitric oxide levels and certainly no science showing in effects on muscle growth or increased performance.

Point is, money spent on these products is money flushed down the toilet.

 

[strategicmove]

...
Arginine alpha-ketogluterate is the “active” ingredient reported by one company that sells this type of supplement. It is claimed that this compound increases and maintains a constantly high level of nitric oxide in muscle. While there is a lot of research on the effects of nitric oxide, there is no research that shows supplementation with arginine alpha-ketogluterate increases or sustains nitric oxide levels in any human or animal organs...

Compared with plain arginine, arginine bonded to alpha ketoglutarate (AKG) uses the AKG as an agent to improve arginine bioavailability and absorption. That was the point.

...There is no science showing they have any effect on nitric oxide levels...

This is not entirely true. As is well known, arginine is the substrate for two enzymes, arginase and nitric oxide synthase. These enzymes compete against each other for the arginine metabolic pathway. The enzyme arginase converts arginine to ornithine and urea. Nitric oxide synthase converts arginine to nitric oxide, the potent vasodilator. A higher expression of the arginase enzyme leads to higher ornithine production, but less nitric oxide production. The key to elevated nitric oxide levels is, therefore, either to inhibit arginase, or to directly stimulate nitric oxide synthase. So, arginine does affect nitric oxide levels!

Point is, money spent on these products is money flushed down the toilet.

This is an overly sweeping statement that cannot be correct in its entirety.

 

[VolcomX311]

Vasodilation has no proven effect on acute strength increases. As far as increased nutrient uptake, increased hemoglobin/O2 delivery for increase in cardiovascular capability, I can get behind that theory.

Improved post-exercise recovery benefits even seem plausible, but no acute strength implications as some companies promote.

All this to say, I don't think NO is useless, i think it's fine, but I don't think it's anywhere near on the level of creatine, which as a result of popular trend, NO seems to be receiving much greater recognition then it deserves.

 

[Distilled Water]

I would opt for a caffeine free pre-workout supp. Caffeine is a vasoconstrictor and is counterproductive to a good workout pump. I opt for some Creatine, Arginine, and Citruline Malate with some BCAAs (caffeine free Chaos and Excell mixed together).

I know some of you probably can't workout without caffeine though, lol.

We use Yohimbe in Cold Fusion!

Along with some creatine, arginine, taurine, leucine, beta-alanine

 

[ShakesAllDay]

Not directly.

You believe the 'fascia-stretching' hypothesis to be false?

 

[strategicmove]

You believe the 'fascia-stretching' hypothesis to be false?

Explain what you mean

 

[VolcomX311]

The big question is does the 'pump' promote increases in muscle size?

I've read a few places about the 'fascia' that envelopes muscles, bones, joints, etc. It has been said that you need to stretch the fascia in order to give your muscles room to grow.

In this case, an extreme pump would be beneficial.

Thoughts?

No vasodilation pump will stretch your fascia to that extreme where it wields beneficial effects from that aspect. Vasodilation is simply an increase in the diameter of the vein/capillaries/what have you, it doesn't involve any significant physical implications on muscle fascia.

 

[WhenAllFails]

Vasodilation has no proven effect on acute strength increases. As far as increased nutrient uptake, increased hemoglobin/O2 delivery for increase in cardiovascular capability, I can get behind that theory.

Improved post-exercise recovery benefits even seem plausible, but no acute strength implications as some companies promote.

All this to say, I don't think NO is useless, i think it's fine, but I don't think it's anywhere near on the level of creatine, which as a result of popular trend, NO seems to be receiving much greater recognition then it deserves.

Don't most NO Boosters have one or more forms of creatine in them? I don't think it's the Nitric Oxide itself that is receiving the great recognition, but the cocktail that composes the Pre-Workout drinks people consume. Which generally contains several, at least somewhat, useful ingredients.

Now if they'd find a way to use these drinks to beam any television show into my head whilst I did cardio they'd be a lot more useful