To Much Creatine? Interesting article i found what do you guys think about it?

[j0sh710]

Bodybuilding.com - James Stettler - Creatine - The Myth And The Magic!

Check this out, does it sound legit.

[bolt10]

yea i think most people feel nowadays you don't need to load creatine. so it is pretty legit i only take 5 grams on workout days.

[VolcomX311]

yea i think most people feel nowadays you don't need to load creatine. so it is pretty legit i only take 5 grams on workout days.

I've heard both, to load or not load? Anyone else got any input? Kre-Alkalyn claims no load, Mono claims load. I would rather it be a no load situation, but some clarification from others would be great.

According to the calculator I'd have to load 29g of creatine a day for 10 days. That's a lot of loading and I was under the impression that the body will only absorb up to 10g a day.

[j0sh710]

ya i was wondering it also has some other things in it that, makes me wonder like saying that creatine makes you use less muscle fibers causing less muscle growth???

[renegade100]

ya i was wondering it also has some other things in it that, makes me wonder like saying that creatine makes you use less muscle fibers causing less muscle growth???

not loading just takes longer to saturate your system. 20mg a day on the days i lift and it works fine. 10MG BEFORE AND 10 AFTER.

[strategicmove]

not loading just takes longer to saturate your system. 20mg a day on the days i lift and it works fine. 10MG BEFORE AND 10 AFTER.

You probably meant "grammes", not "milligrammes."

[bound]

Okay, so we've got this, which sounds convincing, and we've got the arguement for using alternating three days of 20 or so grams with three days off, which also sounds legit, and the one that says that once you are saturated, it really only takes about a gram a day to keep you saturated.

So which is it?

[pistonpump]

ya i was wondering it also has some other things in it that, makes me wonder like saying that creatine makes you use less muscle fibers causing less muscle growth???

never heard that before..

i say **** loading, its a waste imo

[strategicmove]

Everyone seems to have their favourite approach to using creatine. Loading, of any type, in my opinion is an outdated approach. I basically use the equivalent of 5g of creatine daily, as long as I have it in my stack.

[EctoPower]

Okay, so we've got this, which sounds convincing, and we've got the arguement for using alternating three days of 20 or so grams with three days off, which also sounds legit, and the one that says that once you are saturated, it really only takes about a gram a day to keep you saturated.

So which is it?

You're expecting a straight answer?

Essentially it will take longer to saturate your muscles to an effective dose of CM without loading. Eventually they'll get there though. So it's personal preference. You mentioned the 3 days on/3 days off cycling and that is sort of like loading for 3 days, then stopping, then loading again. IMO that gets the muscles saturated in 3 days and keeps them there. I feel strength increases by day 4 or 5 (that is, 1 or 2 days after the 3 day load) and they don't waiver until I stop taking CM.

IMO, whoever said only 10g of CM can be absorbed in a day is completely full of sh*t. And whoever said CM decreases one's ability to grow muscle is also full of sh*t. I've never seen any evidence to suggest that either of these statements are true and CM is the most studied supplement EVER.

I think the guy who wrote that article is way off base. Let's start with this: "I am also not going to waste half the space of the article on references." Right, because you wouldn't want anybody to check your sources.

Also, he recommends CEE, which I think is evidence enough that he doesn't know what he's talking about. CEE is not "40x stronger than CM." It's just not. In fact, CM may be 40 times stronger than CEE because CEE is essentially worthless. But that's been debated to death anyway.

Lastly is the issue of recruiting less muscle fibers to move the load. This may be true of how CM works in the muscle, but that means you will not be able to build muscle only if you never progressively load from one lift to the next. That is, if you lift the same amount of weight everytime, you're not going to grow. Duh. This is true whether you use CM or not. Say I bench 225 today and CM allows me to move it 6 times with only 90% of the muscle fibers that it would take without CM. Next time I bench 235 6 times and it takes 90% of the muscle fibers that it would normally take to move that load without CM. Did I not recruit new muscle fibers to lift the heavier load? Did the muscle fibers that worked on both loads not have to grow in anticipation of future increasing loads? I don't understand how CM would inhibit growth in this example and Stettler's argument makes no sense to me.

Plus he didn't provide references, so I can't check his work. Whatever.

[Distilled Water]

I say eff it!!!!

15-20gr/day or nothing for me

[Big BAMA]

I don't load it, but if I take cheap creatine mono I drop one.

[VolcomX311]

Lastly is the issue of recruiting less muscle fibers to move the load. This may be true of how CM works in the muscle, but that means you will not be able to build muscle only if you never progressively load from one lift to the next. That is, if you lift the same amount of weight everytime, you're not going to grow. Duh. This is true whether you use CM or not. Say I bench 225 today and CM allows me to move it 6 times with only 90% of the muscle fibers that it would take without CM. Next time I bench 235 6 times and it takes 90% of the muscle fibers that it would normally take to move that load without CM. Did I not recruit new muscle fibers to lift the heavier load? Did the muscle fibers that worked on both loads not have to grow in anticipation of future increasing loads? I don't understand how CM would inhibit growth in this example and Stettler's argument makes no sense to me.

Plus he didn't provide references, so I can't check his work. Whatever.

Creatines exact function is to offer its phosphate to adenosine di-phosphates once its tri-phosphate form has been used to un-attach the myosin cross bridge head from the actin... in Laymen's term, creatine allows for greater contraction. Define strong contraction: A strong contraction is not one single bursting contraction, it's the summation of tens of thousands of micro contractions of myofilaments within milliseconds. The quicker you can contraction, the stronger the contraction in a sense and by quicker I mean the faster your myosin can pull actin over, release, recharge, re-attach and pull again, tens of thousand of times in a very short time frame. Creatine effects the stage of release (or cocking as physiologists may say), because the release of cross bridges requires ATP.

All this to say, if anything Creatine is going to perpetuate greater recruitment as oppose to less. Creatine will allow for greater activity/performance at the myofilament level, which would lead to greater microtrauma, which would lead to greater inflammation, which would perpetuate supercompensation or growth.

P.S. The intensity of your lift will have a much greater effect on muscle recruitment then any supplement. I'm not so sure whoever wrote this article knows anything about what he's talking about.

P.S.S. CEE is not proven to be more effective then Mono, but I stand neutral on this issue nonetheless.

P.S.S.S. I don't want you to feel like we're attacking you or anything, i know sometimes responses can sound personal as if we think you wrote the article and we're directly rebuking the author or something, we're not bro. It's all in the family.

[Xodus]

I'm pretty sure that high dose recommendation came from EAS / Bill Phillips when they were charging like $50 for a hundred grams of creatine. Had to support the 'purple palace' you know...


Muscle creatine loading in men

E. Hultman, K. Soderlund, J. A. Timmons, G. Cederblad and P. L. Greenhaff
Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, University Medical School, Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham, United Kingdom.

The effect of dietary creatine and supplementation on skeletal muscle creatine accumulation and subsequent degradation and on urinary creatinine excretion was investigated in 31 male subjects who ingested creatine in different quantities over varying time periods. Muscle total creatine concentration increased by approximately 20% after 6 days of creatine supplementation at a rate of 20 g/day. This elevated concentration was maintained when supplementation was continued at a rate of 2 g/day for a further 30 days. In the absence of 2 g/day supplementation, total creatine concentration gradually declined, such that 30 days after the cessation of supplementation the concentration was no different from the presupplementation value. During this period, urinary creatinine excretion was correspondingly increased. A similar, but more gradual, 20% increase in muscle total creatine concentration was observed over a period of 28 days when supplementation was undertaken at a rate of 3 g/day. In conclusion, a rapid way to "creatine load" human skeletal muscle is to ingest 20 g of creatine for 6 days. This elevated tissue concentration can then be maintained by ingestion of 2 g/day thereafter. The ingestion of 3 g creatine/day is in the long term likely to be as effective at raising tissue levels as this higher dose.

[EctoPower]

Creatines exact function is to offer its phosphate to adenosine di-phosphates once its tri-phosphate form has been used to un-attach the myosin cross bridge head from the actin... in Laymen's term, creatine allows for greater contraction. Define strong contraction: A strong contraction is not one single bursting contraction, it's the summation of tens of thousands of micro contractions of myofilaments within milliseconds. The quicker you can contraction, the stronger the contraction in a sense and by quicker I mean the faster your myosin can pull actin over, release, recharge, re-attach and pull again, tens of thousand of times in a very short time frame. Creatine effects the stage of release (or cocking as physiologists may say), because the release of cross bridges requires ATP.

All this to say, if anything Creatine is going to perpetuate greater recruitment as oppose to less. Creatine will allow for greater activity/performance at the myofilament level, which would lead to greater microtrauma, which would lead to greater inflammation, which would perpetuate supercompensation or growth.

P.S. The intensity of your lift will have a much greater effect on muscle recruitment then any supplement. I'm not so sure whoever wrote this article knows anything about what he's talking about.

P.S.S. CEE is not proven to be more effective then Mono, but I stand neutral on this issue nonetheless.

P.S.S.S. I don't want you to feel like we're attacking you or anything, i know sometimes responses can sound personal as if we think you wrote the article and we're directly rebuking the author or something, we're not bro. It's all in the family.

Volc,

I like your explanation a lot and it makes sense. I sort of mis-spoke because I meant to say that even if his premise were true, then... I sort of effed that up. But I think the bottom line we both agree on is that intensity, with or without creatine, will result in muscle stimulation/growth and CM certainly does not impede that.

Good discussion!

[VolcomX311]

Volc,

I like your explanation a lot and it makes sense. I sort of mis-spoke because I meant to say that even if his premise were true, then... I sort of effed that up. But I think the bottom line we both agree on is that intensity, with or without creatine, will result in muscle stimulation/growth and CM certainly does not impede that.

Good discussion!

I was just confirming your original position with unnecessary detail to drive the point home

[j0sh710]

ok ya after ready what you guys have to say it makes me feel better, just high itensity and i will stick with my creatine dose.

[dadream]

Why does he say to take creatine in a hot beverage?? I've never heard any recommendations for creatine like that. He didn't go on to say why,any one else care to??

[VolcomX311]

Why does he say to take creatine in a hot beverage?? I've never heard any recommendations for creatine like that. He didn't go on to say why,any one else care to??

I think we've all already come to an agreement that the author was an idiot.

[ITHURTZ]

ya he says hot beverage, but then anything over 80 makes it useless..... body is 98.6 so.....