Seeking supplement advice...

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    Seeking supplement advice...


    Hey, I want to thank you all ahead of time for taking the time to offer your advice and experience I appreciate it!

    I'm new to the weight lifting scene, been going strong now for about 3 months and I'm looking into supplements. I did search the forums but I didnt find anything that was particularly answering my questions.

    I am 205lbs and 6'1". My goal is to build and cut some very nice muscle and lose some weight ( I got a spare tire going I want to get rid of ). So keeping the wieght loss thing in mind I need to know...

    Supplement suggestions...pre&post workout..
    When to take them?
    What is a cycle?
    Creatine, is it worth it?
    Diet suggestions..

    Once again I really appreciate any advice and or feedback in relation to my questions. Thanks.

    -=Sureal=-

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    IMO you should choose to either cut or build muscle, not both at the same time. If you want to build quality muscle, you are going to have to have a caloric surplus and vice versa for dropping bodyfat. If you are already a little overweight I would try to cut first. 3 months in I would rec. the basics--1.5g protein per day, good multi-vitamin (i like animal pak b/c of the bcaa's and efa's), possibly creatine (safe and proven for strength increase). Stick to slow digesting carbs 1 -1 1/2 hrs before workout with a protein shake. Post workout I like to consume a small amount of fast digesting carbs w/ my protein shake. A cycle is probably referring to gear, prosteroids, or prohormones. You shouldn't mess with any of these....especially only being in the game for 3 months. Just keep the diet clean....lots of quality protein and if you want to cut bodyfat keep the carbs on the lower side and taper them throughout the day. Cardio is your best friend if you wanna drop the lbs!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sureal View Post
    Hey, I want to thank you all ahead of time for taking the time to offer your advice and experience I appreciate it!

    I'm new to the weight lifting scene, been going strong now for about 3 months and I'm looking into supplements. I did search the forums but I didnt find anything that was particularly answering my questions.

    I am 205lbs and 6'1". My goal is to build and cut some very nice muscle and lose some weight ( I got a spare tire going I want to get rid of ). So keeping the wieght loss thing in mind I need to know...

    Supplement suggestions...pre&post workout..
    When to take them?
    What is a cycle?
    Creatine, is it worth it?
    Diet suggestions..

    Once again I really appreciate any advice and or feedback in relation to my questions. Thanks.

    -=Sureal=-
    First and foremost, since you've only been at it for 3 months, realize that you are going to make some amazing gains in the next 6-9 months due to rapid gains that everyone tends to make when they first start lifting seriously. As for supplements, there are only a very few that I'd look into this early in the game. I would agree with the above post, in that the first thing you should look for is a decent multi-vitamin, invest in some form of whey protein if you haven't already, and a creatine product. These three alone will help you achieve some pretty amazing results in your first 6-12 months of lifting.

    As far as multi's go there are plenty out there, and its all up to you. I'm sure some people here will toss up suggestions, but I feel that most are pretty similar. Whey protein is also based off opinion, there are plenty of good companies out there (Optimum Nutrition being a popular one). Most people will probably suggest just plain old creatine monohydrate as this is the most proven creatine and seems to work for most people.

    Now you asked about timing. Multi anytime during the day as long as you get it in. Whey protein after your workout. And creatine before and after your workout. And yes creatine is worth it. And is probably one of the safest products you're going to find.

    Diet suggestions. Best suggestion I can give you is to sign up on www.fitday.com as its free and it will help you keep track of your calories. This is essential when first starting as most people don't realize how many calories or how few they are consuming.

    Good luck!
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    Where to begin...ah, I know, welcome to the board!

    ...Instead of cutting for 3 months, why not get your feet wet with a good ole fashioned recomp? Look to maybe have your caloric intake about 500 over maintenace level. How often are you planning on training a week? Somewhere between 4 and 6 days a week is ideal.

    If you have been lifting for 3 months it may be time to switch up your workout routine. Hit a large muscle group each day, chest/back/legs, and if you've been doing a pyramid type workout, switch it to a 5x5 and lift heavy, or do light weight and higher reps, anything to create some confusion.

    Preworkout, your best preworkout supp is a high slow carb meal about an hour before you train. A lot of guys on the forum like this product called P-Slin which is taken 15 minutes before that meal. I don't think you should really be spending money just yet on supps until you get locked in for awhile, but do what you gotta do bro.

    Postworkout, quick release protien + quick/high GI carbs like maltodextrin or WMS to force feed your muscles. There is a post somewhere that states that BCAA's are best immediate postworkout followed by your post workout meal 30 minutes later. All of which is in that window of opportunity.

    I definately recommend a multi vitamin, calcium supp, fish oil, digestive enzymes and probiotics. You will get many additions and subtractions to that list talking with people, those are just my basics.
    Other than those your only real supplement should be a protien supplement, unless of couse you can eat whole food sources instead.

    Cycle, no. Not yet.

    Creatine...if you're trying to lose weight I'm not sure if creatine would be the route you're trying to take. It moves more water into your muscles which potentially adds size and strength gains. There might be a differing opinion on this subject, that is just mine.

    Diet suggestions, 80% of your success/failure resides in your diet. 500 cals over maintenance level (quick calc for maintenace is 'weight x 15 = maintenace level') You want high protien, high carb, moderate healthy fats. My main sources for those three are whey, oats, and fish oil. If you want to create a diet log there are sites like http://www.fitday.com which can help you track and plan a diet.

    Good luck bro, I hope I didn't ramble on ya too badly. And goodluck. Welcome to the board.
    "I am legally blind and if I can Squat,deadlift and over all get myself to the gym then anyone can get their a$$ in gear and get strong!!" - malleus25
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    Thanks...


    Wow, thanks guys for the warm welcome and advice.

    So far I have picked up a big tub of GNC whey protein and I have been using that for the last month. I will get the multi and start using that for sure.

    Some questions I have that generated from your posts.

    -Slow carbs and Fast carbs? Not sure how to tell, whats a good example of both. What kind of foods do you all really eat?

    -Length and type of cardio? Heard you can burn muscle if you do too much cardio is this correct?

    -Best time of day to lift/cardio?

    I had a visit with my doctor today (I have rheumatoid arthritis) and he said to stay away from the creatine because it can cause dehydration in folks who have an auto immune disease like I do. Maybe small amounts would be ok though?

    -What are BCAA's and Epa's?

    -I figured my maintenance level would be 2985. Is this # how many calories I should consume?

    Sorry for so many questions I just want to be well informed and make sure I dont waste any more months of training without good info. I'm pretty sure right now my diet sucks. I usually just eat whatever my wife makes for example...Lasagna, Taco's, Fettucini, turkey sandwiches, cereal, casseroles, hamburgers. Probably not good huh, LOL. I do not eat fast food though so Im ok there

    Anyways thanks again guys, ill look forward to hearing from you all again!!

    -=Sureal=-
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sureal View Post
    Wow, thanks guys for the warm welcome and advice.

    So far I have picked up a big tub of GNC whey protein and I have been using that for the last month. I will get the multi and start using that for sure.

    Some questions I have that generated from your posts.

    -Slow carbs and Fast carbs? Not sure how to tell, whats a good example of both. What kind of foods do you all really eat?

    -Length and type of cardio? Heard you can burn muscle if you do too much cardio is this correct?

    -Best time of day to lift/cardio?

    I had a visit with my doctor today (I have rheumatoid arthritis) and he said to stay away from the creatine because it can cause dehydration in folks who have an auto immune disease like I do. Maybe small amounts would be ok though?

    -What are BCAA's and Epa's?

    -I figured my maintenance level would be 2985. Is this # how many calories I should consume?

    Sorry for so many questions I just want to be well informed and make sure I dont waste any more months of training without good info. I'm pretty sure right now my diet sucks. I usually just eat whatever my wife makes for example...Lasagna, Taco's, Fettucini, turkey sandwiches, cereal, casseroles, hamburgers. Probably not good huh, LOL. I do not eat fast food though so Im ok there

    Anyways thanks again guys, ill look forward to hearing from you all again!!

    -=Sureal=-


    You can type in Glycemic Index chart into a search browser and I'm pretty sure you will find a chart with various foods on it listing how fast they absorb. The lower numbers mean they are low GI carbs, like oats, apples, etc. High GI carbs would be things like white potato, white bread, white rice, pineapple etc.

    As for your cardio if you are wanting to burn fat, doing cardio on an intense setting for no longer than 15 mins and logging your progress will increase your resting metabolism, which is what burns the fat when your watching tv for example. Once you max out the resistance or w/e you will be doing your cardio on, try aiming to go a longer distance in that 15 mins.

    And add about 200-300 more calories to your maintaince cals to give your body a surplus. If you're one of those people who can eat anything and not gain a lb, you might want to add another 200-300 cals on top of the extra 200-300 making it 400-600.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sureal View Post
    -What are BCAA's and Epa's?

    -I figured my maintenance level would be 2985. Is this # how many calories I should consume?
    Your maintenance level is what your body requires to maintain your current size. Lower it slightly to aid with losing weight, increase it to gain weight. Increasing your calories with healthy foods and diet and exercise will aid with putting on lean mass.

    BCAA's are branched chain amino acids, they are the primary aminos used in muscle synthesis.

    EPA is a form of omega3 found in fish oil. DHA, another omega3 is in there are well. You can get omega3s from flax oil as well but that's ALA, Alpha Linolenic Acid, not to be confused with the antioxidant Alpha-Lipoic Acid. Anywho, the ALA in flax oil is a lower form of omega3 when compared to EPA and DHA. The health benefits from Omega3s are near endless, I love em.

    As for my diet. It's primarily oats, whey, green beans, wheat bread, raisins, psyllium and red meat. Not exciting but it gets the job done for me.
    "I am legally blind and if I can Squat,deadlift and over all get myself to the gym then anyone can get their a$$ in gear and get strong!!" - malleus25
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    All the advice so far has been pretty much spot on. All I can say is get your stuff from NutraPlanet.com. Best website in the world. Much cheaper than GNC.
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    Whoops I just noticed that I was talking about a caloric surplus, and you want to lose weight correct?
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    I've responded best to early morning fasted cardio when I am trying to cut. As far as resistance training goes, I don't think that there is a "best" time of day as far as what I've experienced. Just be sure that your pre and post workout nutrition are in line and chose the time of day that you feel will allow you to train with the most intensity and the heaviest weight. You should be eating about 6 meals a day. I like to have 3 solid meals and 3 snacks (at least two of which include a protein shake). Really can't stress the diet thing enough regardless of wether you're striving for size or fat loss. If you don't stay clean and get your protein, your hard work won't produce the results you expect.
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    ~ Fundamental Guidelines ~
    • Workout hard - There are many different workout regimes, many that work well. Generally: Strength training is in the 6 rep range / Bodybuilding in the 8-10 rep range. - Rep range warmup: 15 ( sets 1 & 2 ) Working: 10, 8, 6 last three sets add drop sets to failure )

    • Fast Efficient Workouts = 1hr - This is not hard and fast but studies have shown that Cortisol rises after 1hr

    • Protein shake immediately after workout and then protein meal with carbs etc within 1hr

    • Creatine - Mono or CEE you decide. Both before and after workout.

    • Daily meals - 5 - 6 day ( including shakes ) protein = 1g per pound of body weight. Meal 1 ( breakies ) is shake plus oatmeal or whatever else you want ( apple is good fibre / system crap mover ), Meal 6 is post workout shake with creatine etc and then solid food meal. Carbs tapered down from morning to evening and fats tapered up from morning to evening. Protein is a constant.

    • Sleep 8 - 10 hrs a night ( very imp for all natural BB'ers )

    • Supps - Do you note the order in which these are and where supps come??? - a) Multivitamin / B complex b) Whey protein c) creatine e) Test boosters / stacks etc

    ~ Exercises ~
    • Squats - Biggest muscle and boosts test like crazy, work em hard and see results big time.

    • Deadlifts / Chins / Bent over Rows / Pulldowns - 1st attempt either an palm up or palm down chin at the beginning of your back workout, if you can do one, try two, if you can do 15, add weight. Most important for back is to make the mind / muscle connection. Concentrate ( start with low weight and excellent form ) on getting a good contraction and not swinging with the weight. Calm controlled up down with good squeeze of lats at bottom of rep. All about the connection / squeeze

    • Leg press

    • Flat Bench Dumbell / Barbell - Always swap it up, it takes more muscle etc to do dumbells ( stabilizing muscles etc ) but switch it up - Start with dips to hit lower chest then move to flat bench / incline.

    • Core work - Abs / lower back - work the weaker harder.

    This should give you a good idea....Best thing for test.....squats ....good form, warm up well, be careful and grow!
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    Thank you all so much for all of the advice. I have already put into effect the advice given and I feel alot healthier and more energetic.

    Neoborn was talking about boosting Test....is that short for Testosterone? If so can someone enlighten me on how testosterone comes into play for me in reference to body building! Thanks.

    -=Sureal=-
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    http://www.malehealth.co.uk/userpage1.cfm?item_id=1785

    In short it's what makes you a man. In a women estrogen is essentially what hormonally makes her a woman. These hormones basically cause the changes that change a man into a man and a woman into a woman ....basically of course ....I'm no Dr.
  

  
 

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