Negative Beta-Alanine Study? - AnabolicMinds.com

Negative Beta-Alanine Study?

  1. New Member
    ironman0370's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Age
    44
    Posts
    8
    Rep Power
    89

    Reputation

    Negative Beta-Alanine Study?


    Anyone seen this? I apologize if this has already been posted, but I DID use my friend, the search button, LOL.

    I know it's only one study, there are a TON of holes in it (since I don't have the full text (yet)), but I thought it might spark some good conversation.

    Thanks,
    jst

    The effects of 10 weeks of resistance training combined with beta-alanine supplementation on whole body strength, force production, muscular endurance and body composition.

    Kendrick IP, Harris RC, Kim HJ, Kim CK, Dang VH, Lam TQ, Bui TT, Smith M, Wise JA.Amino Acids. 2008 Jan 4

    Carnosine (Carn) occurs in high concentrations in skeletal muscle is a potent physico-chemical buffer of H(+) over the physiological range. Recent research has demonstrated that 6.4 g.day(-1) of beta-alanine (beta-ala) can significantly increase skeletal muscle Carn concentrations (M-[Carn]) whilst the resultant change in buffering capacity has been shown to be paralleled by significant improvements in anaerobic and aerobic measures of exercise performance. Muscle carnosine increase has also been linked to increased work done during resistance training. Prior research has suggested that strength training may also increase M-[Carn] although this is disputed by other studies. The aim of this investigation is to assess the effect of 10 weeks resistance training on M-[Carn], and, secondly, to investigate if increased M-[Carn] brought about through beta-ala supplementation had a positive effect on training responses. Twenty-six Vietnamese sports science students completed the study.

    The subjects completed a 10-week resistance-training program whilst consuming 6.4 g.day(-1) of beta-ala (beta-ALG) or a matched dose of a placebo (PLG). Subjects were assessed prior to and after training for whole body strength, isokinetic force production, muscular endurance, body composition. beta-Alanine supplemented subjects increased M-[Carn] by 12.81 +/- 7.97 mmol.kg(-1) dry muscle whilst there was no change in PLG subjects.

    There was no significant effect of beta-ala supplementation on any of the exercise parameters measured, mass or % body fat. In conclusion, 10 weeks of resistance training alone did not change M-[Carn].

  2. Professional Member
    size's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    4,232
    Rep Power
    2267

    Reputation

    Interesting. This is a good find as the research on beta alanine that I have seen, has been very positive.
  3. Board Sponsor
    Rodzilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    100
    Rep Power
    134

    Reputation

    have not seen that one yet, good find.

    won't stop me from using (I know that was not your intent)

    I thought I saw some info somewhere on BA making certain allergies flare up, has anyone seen that?
    •   
       

  4. Elite Member
    djbombsquad's Avatar
    Stats
    5'5"  150 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    6,848
    Rep Power
    353386

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I saw the study too but I am currently using BA. Maybe if we used BAEE it would absorbe better?!?!? NOSHOTGUN uses that form of BA.
  5. NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
    Steveoph's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    12,523
    Rep Power
    41243

    Reputation

    I read the full text and it was interesting to say the least. Their methods were good, and they noticed opposite results to Hoffman et al 2006.

    Also it isn`t the absorption that is the problem, see Tallon et al 2005 and Kim et al 2006 for studies that showed Beta-Alanine is an effective means at raising the carnosine levels, the questions this study puts forth is whether those increased levels actually mean greater strength gains.
  6. Board Sponsor
    Rodzilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    100
    Rep Power
    134

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    I saw the study too but I am currently using BA. Maybe if we used BAEE it would absorbe better?!?!? NOSHOTGUN uses that form of BA.
    lol, don't get everyone started. BA already absorbs very well.
  7. Diamond Member
    strategicmove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    10,754
    Rep Power
    774630

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    It would be useful to see the full text, if possible. Hard to accept the conclusions based on the abstract. This is the first time some of us will read that 6.4g daily of beta alanine did not increase cellular carnosine levels after 10 weeks. Four weeks are usually sufficient. Besides, most people do not take beta-alanine or carnosine to cut body fat per se, so it should not be a negative outcome, if beta alanine does not deliver this.
    Product Educator | USPowders
    Statements made by this online persona are the sole property of the owner, and do not necessarily reflect USPowders’ opinion as a whole.
  8. NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
    Steveoph's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    12,523
    Rep Power
    41243

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    It would be useful to see the full text, if possible. Hard to accept the conclusions based on the abstract. This is the first time some of us will read that 6.4g daily of beta alanine did not increase cellular carnosine levels after 10 weeks. Four weeks are usually sufficient. Besides, most people do not take beta-alanine or carnosine to cut body fat per se, so it should not be a negative outcome, if beta alanine does not deliver this.
    Full text problem solved Now you will see what they meant (They had no problem with the carnosine levels, it`s the lack of any significant effect by these increased levels).

    If anybody else needs it, I might be able to help you out via PM
  9. Diamond Member
    strategicmove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    10,754
    Rep Power
    774630

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph;
    Full text problem solved ...
    Thanks for the e-mail.
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Steveoph again."
    Product Educator | USPowders
    Statements made by this online persona are the sole property of the owner, and do not necessarily reflect USPowders’ opinion as a whole.
  10. Advanced Member
    Dutchman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    72
    Posts
    533
    Rep Power
    520

    Reputation

    I read this one somewhere recently. Isn't this the trial run with 26 Korean students? I have lived in Asia for many years and I still have this feeling that we often have some different physical structures, for example the famous one with Japanese intolerance of alcohol. Someone far smarter than I needs to review this in detail.
  11. Senior Member
    slow-mun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,149
    Rep Power
    1173

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    I saw the study too but I am currently using BA. Maybe if we used BAEE it would absorbe better?!?!? NOSHOTGUN uses that form of BA.
    Nope, I don't think it would,
    Written By Dr. Roger Harris

    Beta Alanine Ethyl Ester HCl
    19 Nov 2007

    Correctly named = Ethyl 3-aminopropionate hydrochloride

    WARNING
    We have seen a few alarming cases of beta alanine ethyl ester HCl advertised for sale on the internet. While it may seem that this is a new form of beta alanine, we must draw your attention to the safety data of this unnatural product.

    Sigma Aldrich, one of the major global pharmaceutical and chemical suppliers, states on its own website Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS), the following:
    Quote:
    1 - Toxicological Information
    SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS OF EXPOSURE
    To the best of our knowledge, the chemical, physical, and toxicological properties have not been thoroughly investigated.

    MSDS is the international data standard covering a wide range of safety information intended for research and industrial handling of products and complies with international treaties. As a major global pharmaceutical company Sigma Aldrich really are a company that have access to current safety information.

    Here's the link if you may want to go to and check for yourself.

    Or alternatively you can go through the WWW to their site and do a search for the chemical and then click to see the MSDS page. The company is Sigma Aldrich.

    Why you should be concerned.
    This is not a natural chemical. It is not beta alanine. Whilst the name retains the words beta alanine it is not the same - it is chemically changed and the correct full name is ethyl 3-aminopropionate hydrochloride.

    Without genuine clinical safety trials, which can take decades, to investigate safety for humans and possible long term side effects, it is not possible to say that this ethyl ester derivative is safe.

    Technical stuff
    Part of the molecule has been covalently esterified (in this case to add on a -CH2CH3 or ethyl side chain). Esterifcation is a reaction between a carboxylic acid group -COOH with an alcohol group. Covalent bonds are chemically strong and do not simply dissolve or break down in the body unless they come under chemical attack or the body has a specific enzyme to perform this function.

    HCl
    The term hydrochloride is not part of the chemical structure. It is not covalently bonded to the rest of the molecule and only forms a weak 'ionic' association. The HCl is released as soon as it is mixed with water or when it enters the stomach for example, in contrast to the ethyl ester.

    Chemically changing a molecule and toxicity.
    Curiously there are two serious problems that are always overlooked (or deliberately avoided) when those sorts of products are marketed.
    1. To be effective the ethyl side chain must be removed because it alters the chemical properties and prevents the specific enzymes from utilising the so-called beta alanine 'part' of the molecule.
    2. The new ester chemical might be so close in shape to the original that not only does it find the necessary enzyme but it may also bind to it blocking the reaction site. If this happens permanently this is known as Non-competitive inhibition and this can be toxic.

    Urban myth
    The belief is that by altering the structure the chemical becomes more easily absorbed - however beta alanine (the real thing already is easily absorbed).

    A similar myth has been created for creatine ethyl ester. Again, to be effective the ethyl ester side chain MUST be removed - otherwise you don't have creatine you actually have (?-Methylguanido)-acetyl-ethyl ester. This could be removed by a blood plasma borne esterase enzyme - totally defeating the claimed benefits in the first place. Because as soon as the side chain is chemically removed all you have once again is creatine that still has to be transported into muscle cells via the transporter- Didn't they tell you this bit? It would be interesting to see the results of a kinetics study of the effect of creatine ethyl ester upon Creatine Kinase (CK). CK is the body's only enzyme that can utilise creatine by adding a phosphate group - ready then to be used to regenerate ATP. CK is found in 3 isoforms: muscle, blood and brain. Something to risk toxic effects with? We think not.



  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. New Beta Alanine study and differences across races
    By Synapsin in forum Supplements
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-18-2013, 10:07 PM
  2. CEE an beta alanine AAKG negative side effects
    By Graham in forum Supplements
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-30-2008, 01:43 AM
  3. beta-alanine
    By thedon3534 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 90
    Last Post: 04-10-2008, 09:27 AM
  4. Replies: 36
    Last Post: 10-22-2007, 12:03 AM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-31-2007, 10:46 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in