Abolishing Ageing: How to Live Forever

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by fitnecise View Post
    And what about the consequences of manipulating systems that eliminate toxins? Or the negative properties of the substances themselves? In small amounts in diet they may be generally beneficial, but chronically through supplementation, who knows.

    Hot off the press:
    I am not looking for a state of zero toxins in my system. Just a level that would not create a dysfunction.
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  2. There's nothing paradoxical about "the French paradox".

    Animal fats are healthy and very beneficial for the body.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    There's nothing paradoxical about "the French paradox".

    Animal fats are healthy and very beneficial for the body.
    I think the so-called French Paradox" is legitimate. Besides, the statement that animal fats (not including fish oil) are healthy and very beneficial is only true up to a point. After that, they may become counter-productive.
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    I think the so-called French Paradox" is legitimate. Besides, the statement that animal fats (not including fish oil) are healthy and very beneficial is only true up to a point. After that, they may become counter-productive.
    here is an interesting debate:

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPyme62niYM"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]


    and the MONICA study

    http://www.ehnheart.org/files/statis...05-092711A.pdf

    The best summaries of the relationship between dietary saturated fat and heart disease are on pages 66 and 28. Page 66 has a map indicating average saturated fat intake in each European country. Page 28 has another map indicating heart disease occurrence in those exact same countries over the exact same period of time.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades;
    There's nothing paradoxical about "the French paradox".

    Animal fats are healthy and very beneficial for the body.
    Something else on the legitimacy of the "French Paradox". Usually, the French cuisine (rich sauces, gourmet cheeses, and such like) should lead to a high incidence of coronary heart disease. The fact that it doesn't can be traced to the high consumption of resveratrol-containing red wine with their meals. As is well known, the consumption of plant polyphenols (from green tea, red-wine, apple, cocoa, and so on) with meals reduces what is known as post-prandial (after-meal) blood sugar and oxidative stress levels. When we eat, we might end up overeating, leading to post-prandial endothelial disorders that can impact us during most of the day. "Post-prandial oxidative stress" refers to the condition triggered by overloading our blood with fats and sugars for extended periods of time. This produces damage to the arterial wall (also due to high LDL oxidation), and can end up in higher risk of atherosclerosis, obesity, and diabetes.
    Consuming plant polyphenols (in the French case, wine polyphenols) with meals can help prevent these markers of dysfunction, helping the French to stay healthy. Even if one does not have the habit of drinking wine during meals, one can supplement with green tea extract and cocoa polyphenols after meals to obtain the same benefits.
    Last edited by strategicmove; 01-29-2008 at 06:06 AM.
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  6. Question


    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Something else on the legitimacy of the "French Paradox". Usually, the French cuisine (rich sauces, gourmet cheeses, and such like) should lead to a high incidence of coronary high disease. The fact that it doesn't can be traced to the high consumption of resveratrol-containing red wine with their meals. As is well known, the consumption of plant polyphenols (from green tea, red-wine, apple, cocoa, and so on) with meals reduces what is known as post-prandial (after-meal) blood sugar and oxidative stress levels. When we eat, we might end up overeating, leading to post-prandial endothelial disorders that can impact us during most of the day. "Post-prandial oxidative stress" refers to the condition triggered by overloading our blood with fats and sugars for extended periods of time. This produces damage to the arterial wall (also due to high LDL oxidation), and can end up in higher risk of atherosclerosis, obesity, and diabetes.
    Consuming plant polyphenols (in the French case, wine polyphenols) with meals can help prevent these markers of dysfunction, helping the French to stay healthy. Even if one does not have the habit of drinking wine during meals, one can supplement with green tea extract and cocoa polyphenols after meals to obtain the same benefits.
    Doesn't this just lead us back to Quercetin (the main representative of the flavonol class, found at high concentrations in onions, apples, red wine, broccoli, tea, and Ginkgo biloba)?

    Or is it resveratrol + a blend of polyphenolic compounds that produce the desired effect?

    See:
    A blend of polyphenols explains the stimulatory effect of red wine on human endothelial NO synthase.
    Nitric Oxide. 2005 Mar;12(2):97-104.

    A high intake of polyphenols is likely to have beneficial effects on the cardiovascular system. Especially red wine is a rich source of polyphenols, and we have previously shown that French red wine upregulates eNOS, a protective enzyme in the cardiovascular system. The current study tested (poly)phenols of red wine for their ability to enhance eNOS expression. Of the polyphenols tested, we found 3,4',5-trihydroxy-trans-stilbene (trans-resveratrol) to be the most efficacious stimulator of eNOS expression (and eNOS transcription), but this compound alone could not explain the total stimulatory effect of red wine. The flavanols catechin and epicatechin, the flavonols fisetin, myricetin, isoquercitrin and hyperoside, the anthocyanins delphinidin, malvidin, and paeonidin, gallic acid, and the hydroxycinnamic acids ferulic acid and sinapinic acid did not change eNOS expression or eNOS promoter activity in any substantial way. The flavonol quercetin inhibited eNOS expression (with no effect on eNOS promoter activity). Cinnamic acid was a rather potent enhancer of eNOS expression, however with an efficacy of only 170%. Surprisingly, it reduced eNOS promoter activity. The anthocyanins cyanidin, the hydroxycinnamic acids p-coumaric acid and caffeic acid, and the phenolic acids benzoic acid and vanillic acid also enhanced eNOS expression moderately (with no effect on eNOS promoter activity). Thus, the increase in eNOS in response to red wine involves several polyphenolic compounds with a major contribution from trans-resveratrol and lesser contributions from cinnamic and hydroxycinnamic acids, cyanidin, and some phenolic acids.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Doesn't this just lead us back to Quercetin (the main representative of the flavonol class, found at high concentrations in onions, apples, red wine, broccoli, tea, and Ginkgo biloba)?

    Or is it resveratrol + a blend of polyphenolic compounds that produce the desired effect?...[/B][/FONT][/INDENT]
    I believe a complex of polyphenols biased towards resveratrol would be superior to resveratrol alone. I currently take a combination of EGCG, Grape Seed Extract, and Cocoa Polyphenols twice per day, post-meals. My resveratrol comes from Post Cycle Support that I take daily for its general benefits, not for post-cycle-therapy purposes.
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post

    This is why trans-resveratrol uptake is dramatically improved with simultaneous quercetin supplementation. Not to mention the additional impact of including absorption enhancers such as Bioperine, Naringin, and Dihydroxybergamottin.

    The major quercetin metabolite in humans inhibits SIRT1 in one cell line. Don't forget that very little of any polyphenol will reach plasma, most to all will exist as conjugates. So most of the quercetin you are taking will exist as metabolites. (unless you have human data that shows it is actually effective?)

    The others probably haven't been studied so who knows the net effect.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    saying resveratrol isn't bioavailable is nice and all, I've noticed distinct significant effects from dosing 2g a day. There is also actual clinical data showing sperm count changes in humans, so i'm not sure how a non-bioavailable product would cause that. Its bioavailability sucks, yes, no question there, but thats not the same as no bioavailability. teflon has no bioavailability
    What kind of effects, do you notice, from the 2g's of Res?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by blackjackcat View Post
    What kind of effects, do you notice, from the 2g's of Res?


    The effect of 2g's of res baby!!


    (side note: great discussion guys!)

  11. Quote Originally Posted by MashedPotato View Post

    The effect of 2g's of res baby!!


    (side note: great discussion guys!)
    Cool, I could always use more hair! : )

  12. Quote Originally Posted by fitnecise View Post
    The major quercetin metabolite in humans inhibits SIRT1 in one cell line. Don't forget that very little of any polyphenol will reach plasma, most to all will exist as conjugates. So most of the quercetin you are taking will exist as metabolites. (unless you have human data that shows it is actually effective?)

    The others probably haven't been studied so who knows the net effect.
    I found research suggesting that a much larger EGCG dose reaches plasma when taken after an overnight fast. One of the theories is that an acute fast depletes glucuronidation reaction precursors. So perhaps res in the morning before any meals would work.

  13. One thing that is over looked is how your mental state can effect your health. There is research that suggests your mind, can change your DNA. The book, Biology of Belief gives a great deal of info on this matter and will change how you look at being healthy.

    If your looking for real world science geek studies on the minds effect on DNA, this book is perfect.

  14. stress is going to be a big part in aging and diseases with our age.

    if you want to live longer, i'd look towards releiving stress, possibly mind over matter techniques, as well as diet.

    but you must grow a beard as well

  15. Quote Originally Posted by RenegadeRows View Post
    stress is going to be a big part in aging and diseases with our age.

    if you want to live longer, i'd look towards releiving stress, possibly mind over matter techniques, as well as diet.

    but you must grow a beard as well
    Agree. Stress management is an important part of the equation!
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