Need to cut badly, starting DCP/Leviathan/Naplam need advice

ich1ban

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Hi Guys,

I was reading around and decided to try DCP/Leviathan in combination with
SAN Shredded (diuretic)
Avant Research Napalm
Cytosport Musclemilk (been my regular drink for a while now)

I started working out about a year ago, when i started i couldn't even lift the 45lb bar once , now i do 225 max.

I believe i have "bulked up" enough, now i need to cut and get really lean. Is there anything else i need to take or is the above mentioned items sufficient?

My diet is now in check, broken down to 5 meals, i lift for half hr and HIIT for 20-30mins 4 times a week

5"8' 245lbs 25%bf

thanks for the help, i hope to loose weight, im flabby i'm tired of not seeing any definition!
 
nosnmiveins

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drop the Muscle milk and grab some whey isolate, muscle milk has a lottttt of fat in it...maybe try to incorporate some sesamin oil in there to, everything else looks good
 
Skircus7

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take out the Muscle Milk....replace it with ON 100% whey or something else with low carbs/fat.

The napalm will make you retain some water, so do not let that discourage you!....It's more about your diet/workout routine than anything. Hit the gym hard and be disciplined in the kitchen.

Good Luck man :thumbsup:
 
ich1ban

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great! i appreciate the advice, i did notice it has a fat in it so i'll go an switch to some whey isolates.

i'll take a look at sesamin oil as well, i see many people here add it to their daily supps

thanks!
 
Rodja

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Switch to a protein blend instead of just WPI. WPI has a tendency to put you into acidosis because it digested so quickly. Start with 9 caps of DCP for 5-7 days, then drop down to 6/day. I would suggest to not use a diuretic with DCP because it may lead to cramping. For the Napalm, start with 1 squirt, 2x/day to assess your reaction, then work up to 3 squirts, 2x/day. Use Napalm for 3 weeks and then 1-2 weeks off.
 
asianbabe

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Rodja's recommended dosages are spot on.

You can add in oils/lignans such as Fish oil, sesamin and/or CLA if you liked, they would be a little bit better than that cals/fat in muscle milk.

You didn't mention how many days you lift, is it 4? HIIT is also quite taxing on the system, you may want to intersperse them with a couple of sessions of moderately high intensity cardio instead of going "all out".

Otherwise good luck with the stack, with discipline should yield some good results.
 
Rodja

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Rodja's recommended dosages are spot on.

You can add in oils/lignans such as Fish oil, sesamin and/or CLA if you liked, they would be a little bit better than that cals/fat in muscle milk.

You didn't mention how many days you lift, is it 4? HIIT is also quite taxing on the system, you may want to intersperse them with a couple of sessions of moderately high intensity cardio instead of going "all out".

Otherwise good luck with the stack, with discipline should yield some good results.
Good point. Use your strength levels as a gauge to see if you may be over-dieting. Take it slowly and reduce your kcals to only 10-12% under maintenance. Something you may want to do is to reduce your lifting volume by a few sets per muscle group. You will still be providing a stimulus, but you will taxing your body and CNS less.
 
ich1ban

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sweeet thank you for the advice!!!

I can't wait to start, i should have them by Friday >_< :woohoo:
 
methodice

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Nice advice here. In regards to the DCP you say start with 9 a day then drop to 6 after the first week. Why is that?
 
methodice

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Interesting. Where does it get loaded into? How is it eliminated?
 
Rodja

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Interesting. Where does it get loaded into? How is it eliminated?
TTA has a 12 hour half-life so it can take some time before it's effects are seen. Loading it will help to increase the amount of TTA in the system.
 
ich1ban

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Damn i think i spent about $140 in total for everything heh

I bought some PAL Aspire36 caps as well hahahaha :woohoo:

BTW Rodja what does CNS mean?

thanks
 
SilentBob187

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Muscle Milk recently reformulated. Dropped the fat from 18g to 12g and added 5 grams of fiber. Not saying they're the best choice out there, just saying. I'm not sure if the question has been asked or not but when and how often a day are you planning on using the protien you decided on? That could possibly change the answers from the people on here.
 
ich1ban

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Sevename: Thank you sir! I'm still trying to get used to the abbreviations used in the forums :)

Muscle Milk recently reformulated. Dropped the fat from 18g to 12g and added 5 grams of fiber. Not saying they're the best choice out there, just saying. I'm not sure if the question has been asked or not but when and how often a day are you planning on using the protien you decided on? That could possibly change the answers from the people on here.
Yeah i actually bought the MuscleMilk-Lite (less fat&cal) orginally so that is coming but i went ahead a bought the ON Whey 2lb tub as well.

As far as the protein intake, i will just follow the dosage instructions, if i remember correctly most are 2 servings on regular maintenance days and 2 servings + 1 extra serving after workout days. I could possibly cut out some of the maintenance days and take in some skim milk, eggs, baked chicken or tuna if i can away with lower fat/cal
 
ich1ban

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Was just curious, i have a bottle of BSN Nitrix laying around, can i mix it with the current stack i have?
 
SilentBob187

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Isn't nitrix just another NO product? If that's the case then I suppose you could use it with your stack. But then again I am not a fan of BSN. Up to you.
 
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asianbabe

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I don't see a problem with using Nitrix, shouldn't interfere with the stack.
 

Colin

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I would save the Napalm for when you get to a lower body fat as at 25% the fat loss induced via Napalm will not be readily visible.For males,around 15% and below is a good point to start using fat loss topicals.It will surely work at 25% b/f though but visual results will not be so apparent.

I would also not use a diuretic at all,especially in conjunction with the DCP.

For strength and LBM retention while dieting,as well as aesthetic reasons e.g.enhanced muscular fullness,I suggest using SyntheSIZE. It also serves as an excellent nutrient repartitioning tool.

As others have suggested,I highly recommend picking up some Sesathin or Sesamin,it's very cheap in bulk form.Taking it with fish oil is cash-money,as this study indicates:



Dietary sesamin and docosahexaenoic and eicosapentaenoic acids synergistically increase the gene expression of enzymes involved in hepatic peroxisomal fatty acid oxidation in rats.
Arachchige PG, Takahashi Y, Ide T.

Laboratory of Nutritional Biochemistry, National Food Research Institute, Tsukuba 305-8642, Japan.

The interaction of sesamin, one of the most abundant lignans in sesame seed, and highly purified docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) or eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) in the form of ethyl ester in affecting hepatic fatty acid oxidation was examined in rats. In the first experiment, 3 groups of rats were fed with purified experimental diets free of n-3 fatty acid ethyl ester and containing 0%, 0.2%, and 0.4% sesamin (1:1 mixture of sesamin and episesamin), and 2 groups of animals were fed with a 2% DHA ethyl ester diet containing either 0% or 0.2% sesamin. In the second trial, 4 groups of rats were fed with either a 0% or a 2% EPA ethyl ester diet containing 0% or 0.2% sesamin. After 15 days of feeding, DHA and EPA ethyl esters added to a sesamin-free diet little affected the activity and messenger RNA (mRNA) levels of various enzymes involved in fatty acid oxidation. Sesamin increased the activity levels of various hepatic enzymes involved in fatty acid oxidation irrespective of the presence or absence of n-3 fatty acid ethyl ester in diets. However, the diet containing sesamin and DHA or EPA ethyl ester in combination increased many of these parameters synergistically. In particular, the peroxisomal palmitoyl-coenzyme A oxidation rate and acyl-coenzyme A oxidase activity level were much higher in rats fed with sesamin and DHA or EPA in combination than in animals fed with a diet free of n-3 fatty acid ethyl ester and containing sesamin. Analyses of mRNA levels revealed that a diet simultaneously containing sesamin and n-3 fatty acid ethyl ester increased the gene expression of various enzymes involved in peroxisomal fatty acid oxidation in a synergistic manner. However, the combination of sesamin and n-3 fatty acid ethyl esters was ineffective in causing a synergistic increase in mRNA levels of enzymes of mitochondrial fatty acid oxidation, microsomal cytochrome P-450 IV A1, and cytosolic liver-type fatty acid-binding protein. It was concluded that sesamin and DHA or EPA ethyl ester synergistically increased hepatic fatty acid oxidation primarily through up-regulation of the gene expression of peroxisomal fatty acid oxidation enzymes. The results essentially reproduced those observed in our previous study with a diet containing both fish oil and sesamin despite the fact that DHA and EPA ethyl esters were much less effective than fish oil in increasing hepatic fatty acid oxidation.

PMID: 16483883 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
ich1ban

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Thanks Colin.

Yeah i was thinking that the effects won't be very visible with the tire around my waist. For some reason i can see my six pack though so i was a little excited haha.

As far as the diuretic, yes thanks i will hold back on that one as many suggested possibly until i finish the stack.

I went ahead and picked up Sesathin and SyntheSIZE and should expect them next week. I still have a bottle of fish oil so i'll stack them together :D

My day kinda sucked, all my supps were supposed to come today but the FedEx guy came like 8:30AM on a saturday, so i was asleep. I won't be able to get it until Wednesday. I was so pissed off i ran for 3 hours and mumbling ****, ****, ***** along the way.

*sigh* 4 more days....
 
Stay Puft

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Jeeeeeebus, check out Colin throwing out the literature. They do that on this board? Ata Boy, +reps4u.
 

Cordwood

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just curious, how to people take the seasathin oil, and what doses? I bought the primaforce that came with the syringe, and have squirted 1.25 ml in my mouth twice, and it's pretty nasty. Just suck it up? I cant imagine it mixing with something.
 

Sir Savage

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Just for the record, Napalm is an Avant Research product. ;)
 
asianbabe

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just curi
ous, how to people take the seasathin oil, and what doses? I bought the primaforce that came with the syringe, and have squirted 1.25 ml in my mouth twice, and it's pretty nasty. Just suck it up? I cant imagine it mixing with something.
I quite like the taste of sesathin, well not like, but it is to me by no means close to unbearable. I just do 1-2 squirts if I ever eat a high fat meal. You could chew some gum afterwards?

Or stick it in further so it goes straight down your throat and you don't have to taste it.


/oh gosh what am I talking about now.
 
ich1ban

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wow yeh that was awesome lol :p

levi rd + dcp got me a lil nauseous, high, but super focused on day 1-4 but now im focused and when i do any workout i sweat much much more. its awesome.

i'm 241.2 now, just checked few hrs ago
 
ich1ban

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Well i am now 241.2 down from 245.

I lost 3.8lbs in 6days? Probably mixed with water loss but thats still cool.

training sessions are Mon Wed Sat Sun

2-3 sets x 5-7 reps, I plan to increase my weights by 5-10lbs every week.

Shrugs
Upright Row
Military Press
Overhand barbell curls
Underhand barbell curls
Close grip push ups
Wide Grip push ups or Benchpress
Ab Crunch with 35lb plate
Squats
Deadlifts
15-20mins at 3.5mph

I stay in the gym for about 1.5-2 hours

I'm thanking DCP and Leviathan R for that

My experience with Napalm is pretty good as well, i used it on my arms, chest and upper Ab. I could see better definition of my biceps and triceps. Plus for a person that is 240-ish 25%bf, i could see some Ab definition for sure, its amazing.
 
AnonyMoose

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remove the muscle milk and go for a whey iso or milk protein iso

best - moose
 

Rodzilla

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have you started the Napalm yet, or are you saving it until you lower your BF a bit more?
 
ich1ban

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have you started the Napalm yet, or are you saving it until you lower your BF a bit more?
yeah i started it on my arms/chest i'm seeing some definition now. I originally was going to use it on my midsection but Colin recommended that i wait till i get a lower bf%
 

Rodzilla

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yeah i started it on my arms/chest i'm seeing some definition now. I originally was going to use it on my midsection but Colin recommended that i wait till i get a lower bf%
Colin is a smart dude
 
ich1ban

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just wanted to let you guys know that this stack is doing very well for me...thanks for all the advices

Starting Stat: 245lbs 5"8'
01/02/08 Stats: 245lbs
01/08/08 Stats: 241.5lbs
01/12/08 Stats 236.5lbs [-8.5lbs Post-Workout]
01/13/08 Stats 231.5lbs [-13.5lbs Post-workout] WTF? Exact same scale and YMCA dude checked it for me
01/16/08 Stats 234.5lbs - Verified by the Personal Trainer at YMCA
01/18/08 Stats 227.5lbs - -17.5lbs Verified by the Personal Trainer at YMCA
 
SgtP

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just wanted to let you guys know that this stack is doing very well for me...thanks for all the advices

Starting Stat: 245lbs 5"8'
01/02/08 Stats: 245lbs
01/08/08 Stats: 241.5lbs
01/12/08 Stats 236.5lbs [-8.5lbs Post-Workout]
01/13/08 Stats 231.5lbs [-13.5lbs Post-workout] WTF? Exact same scale and YMCA dude checked it for me
01/16/08 Stats 234.5lbs - Verified by the Personal Trainer at YMCA
01/18/08 Stats 227.5lbs - -17.5lbs Verified by the Personal Trainer at YMCA
thats some crazy weight loss. Good Job!
 
ich1ban

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is your strength holding up?
Yeah steadily increasing, but mostly endurance is what i feel. I just don't get tired after many reps.

below is from my log for today
Barbell press - I used to hate barbells because my arms get shaky and hurts my wrists, i always tried to avoid it. Now i can't get enough of it!
2x10 30lbs (warm up)
2x10 35lbs (warm up)
2x10 40lbs (warm up)
2x8 45lbs
2x6 55lbs
2x4 65lbs

Cable Row
10x90lbs
10x115lbs
8x130lbs
6x145lbs
6x160lbs

Deadlift
2x10 115lbs
2x8 175lbs

Cable Arm Curls - Short Grip
10x115lbs
10x130lbs
2x8 145lbs (2sets)

30mins of Cycling (Hill Option)
I'm guessing i am loosing alot of water along the way, but i still drink almost 2gallons a day. I bought myself a water "PUR" faucet filter and can drink straight from the tap now.
 
asianbabe

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damn, that is some great progress. Good work!!!
 
San Quinn

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It pours the Muscle Milk down the drain or else it gets the hose again


Now it places the Muscle Milk in the basket


:ntome:


Very nice weight loss! Is it giving you a wired type feeling at all? I dont do too well to some stims and was interested in Levi and DCP to start a cut in a couple months.

Keep up the good work
 
ich1ban

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damn, that is some great progress. Good work!!!
TYTY

It pours the Muscle Milk down the drain or else it gets the hose again


Now it places the Muscle Milk in the basket


:ntome:


Very nice weight loss! Is it giving you a wired type feeling at all? I dont do too well to some stims and was interested in Levi and DCP to start a cut in a couple months.

Keep up the good work
The first few days maybe day 1-4 i was getting too concentrated, like i concentrate looking at one thing and if i move my eyes i get a little nauseous. That's why they recommend a lower dosage :p But everything works fine now, no weird feelings at all :)
 

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