Overly complex products

EasyEJL

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I was just looking at a bunch of products shopping for what I will buy for late jan/feb use, and was thinking about this again. I don't want to call some products "garbage can" or "kitchen sink" formulations, but I really do prefer supplements that only have a few ingredients. It makes it much easier to use together, and be sure of how much of what is going in your system. Heck, there is even at least 1 protein out that that includes an aromatase inhibitor amongst its boatload of ingredients. It seems to me that the trend is getting worse.
 
Big BAMA

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Are you making fun of IDS and sustonol 250 now 500?
I feel the same way you do. crappy products marketed to a uninformed public.
 

pyrotechnik

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can you say, "muscletech?" working at GNC I spend way too much time reading supplement labels, and let me tell you, there's over 80 ingredients in their new scam called "Anabolic Halo"... people come and return their products cause they make them sick, and you never even know which ingredient makes them sick cause there's 50 gazillion ingredients in there! too much filler ingredients, too much money.
 

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Then i guess you wont be running a cycle of muscle techs anabolic halo? I was going run a 2 week pulse cycle of anabolic halo, then i will probably run anabolic halo for pct and then start my 3 day cut where i will probably run anabolic halo.
 
EctoPower

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I was just looking at a bunch of products shopping for what I will buy for late jan/feb use, and was thinking about this again. I don't want to call some products "garbage can" or "kitchen sink" formulations, but I really do prefer supplements that only have a few ingredients. It makes it much easier to use together, and be sure of how much of what is going in your system. Heck, there is even at least 1 protein out that that includes an aromatase inhibitor amongst its boatload of ingredients. It seems to me that the trend is getting worse.
Agreed. I've avoided purchasing some stuff that looked interesting in the past because they threw in CEE or something else I didn't want. I think there are quite a few "kitchen sink" formulations out there and it does make it hard to tell what is going on. Also, it goes to the whole "proprietary blend" issue as well. I understand that companies need to protect their formulations, but it becomes impossible to determine the dosage of each ingredient and we all have to be lab rats playing with different dosages to find the right one.

That said, I'm not sure much can be done about proprietary blends. However, it would be nice to see purer supplements that don't try to do it all in one. That might help keep the cost down in some cases too.
 
Big BAMA

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Please refer to it as "Dat Dere Muscletech"
 
Cellardude

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Agreed. I've avoided purchasing some stuff that looked interesting in the past because they threw in CEE or something else I didn't want. I think there are quite a few "kitchen sink" formulations out there and it does make it hard to tell what is going on. Also, it goes to the whole "proprietary blend" issue as well. I understand that companies need to protect their formulations, but it becomes impossible to determine the dosage of each ingredient and we all have to be lab rats playing with different dosages to find the right one.

That said, I'm not sure much can be done about proprietary blends. However, it would be nice to see purer supplements that don't try to do it all in one. That might help keep the cost down in some cases too.
things like powerfull, AP,p-slin are very simple formulations yet they are incredibly effective. RPM and Drive is pretty simple as well. Common ingredients but combined at their dosages, extremely effective.
 
dsade

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Bring Back Hot Stuff!!!!!!!
 

ryan6f7

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hot stuff!!!!! if you stacked hot stuff with anabolic halo you would be taking every supplement ever invented in the history of supplements!
 
EasyEJL

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I was actually thinking about the EST protein. kinda worries me that it has propadrol in it "but its only the ai portion of propadrol" they say, but propadrol is a single ingredient... :blink:
 

jasonschaffin

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propadrol is not a single ingredient. It is a progestin and an AI.
 
EctoPower

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I was actually thinking about the EST protein. kinda worries me that it has propadrol in it "but its only the ai portion of propadrol" they say, but propadrol is a single ingredient... :blink:
Wait, they actually did that? I remember hearing that they might put Propadrol in their protein and I really thought it was a joke! :jaw:

Holly hell... that's totally irresponsible, in my opinion.

By the way, this is post number 666 for me! :twisted:
 
prld2gr8ns

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I was actually thinking about the EST protein. kinda worries me that it has propadrol in it "but its only the ai portion of propadrol" they say, but propadrol is a single ingredient... :blink:
Actually I think it's sans the ai portion:

Courtesy NP webpage:

EST has fortified Ana-Pro Blend with Propadrol (6-17 dihydroxy- etiocholove -3-ol proponate)
 
EasyEJL

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well, no matter how you slice it, that is sorta creepy to mee. not like theres not other stuff I find odd in a protein drink like creatine also in there
 

JJC

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On the bottle of ana-pro, its listed as a single ingredient

Propadrol™ 10mg
The scary part is that if someone didn't know it was in there and decided to take multiple servings of the protein multiple times per day, that 10 mg gets multiplied with each serving!

I don't know what a typical dose of Prop is, but that protein can suddenly turn into a full cycle real quickly if you were running out of food and decided to use powders instead.

YIKES! :jaw:
 
EasyEJL

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and I mean really, how many times before has a protein drink included something you would get banned from natural bodybuilding competitions for?
 
EctoPower

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The scary part is that if someone didn't know it was in there and decided to take multiple servings of the protein multiple times per day, that 10 mg gets multiplied with each serving!

I don't know what a typical dose of Prop is, but that protein can suddenly turn into a full cycle real quickly if you were running out of food and decided to use powders instead.

YIKES! :jaw:
This is what I was thinking too. You know how many times I double scoop my protein?

1 cap of Propadrol has 30mg. I have taken up to 60mg at a time and that may be normal. But still, say somebody takes down a double protein shake first thing in the morning and maybe another after their workout. Normally that would be pretty much standard operating procedure. But in this case, the person would be ingesting 40mg of Propadrol.

It's also terrifying that it may be Propadrol sans AI. Since it is a progestin, wouldn't it be more dangerous without the AI in there? I can just picture some high school kid getting gyno, then telling Matt Lauer that the only supplement he ever took was Ana-Pro. Like we need more controversy in the supplement world!
 

JJC

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and I mean really, how many times before has a protein drink included something you would get banned from natural bodybuilding competitions for?
Exactly.

And once there is a scare that protein contains PHs/Steroids, then I wouldn't be surprised that governing bodies like the NCAA would crack down on using protein powders etc...I can definitely see people saying, "I heard there was a protein that had roids in it! All of those proteins must have roids in them too!"

Ugh. This is just more sneaky marketing to an already uneducated public.
 
rms80

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I have a rule- I try to keep it under 8 ingredients per product :D
 
EasyEJL

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I have a rule- I try to keep it under 8 ingredients per product :D
I really think past 4 or 5 gets messy unless it is a multivitamin, or going to be the only thing you take. And i'm an addict, so I can't manage to take just one thing.
 
EctoPower

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I really think past 4 or 5 gets messy unless it is a multivitamin, or going to be the only thing you take. And i'm an addict, so I can't manage to take just one thing.
You are an addict... I've seen a picture of your stash!

In fact, in your original post you said you were looking for something to take in jan/feb... you don't already own enough? :lol:
 
rpen22

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Actually I think it's sans the ai portion:

Courtesy NP webpage:

EST has fortified Ana-Pro Blend with Propadrol (6-17 dihydroxy- etiocholove -3-ol proponate)
I may be wrong, but at first glance that looks like 3-OHAT to me, which would mean that it is the AI portion. It's a metabolite of 6-OXO, I believe.
 
eatingisfun

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and I mean really, how many times before has a protein drink included something you would get banned from natural bodybuilding competitions for?
Maybe all those baseball players can blame it on their protein powder now!
 

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Don't you think that many companies have put a little something extra(not on the label) in things such as protein powder for the launch of the product to get great reviews and then remove it later. It would be nice to have a product serve its purpose so you knew what you were able to stack with it or when best to use it. I don't like it when they claim to do 50 different things like it is the only product that you will ever need. In total agreement with you on this one.
 
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I was thinking about keeping it stupid simple and getting 500g of Cit Malate and dosing about 6g per day and seeing how that works out. I've heard great things about high dosing CM, and I usually do about 3g pre-WO now and I have some pretty good workouts just from that and BA.
It's the anti-kitchen sink :)
 
EasyEJL

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You are an addict... I've seen a picture of your stash!

In fact, in your original post you said you were looking for something to take in jan/feb... you don't already own enough? :lol:
yeah, well :) actually i haven't bought anything since october i think, so basically i'm close to dry on non hormonal stuff, other than AN products, or will be by late jan. Err, well other than the 4 containers of protein, the ON seasonal flavors :) I'm really thinking Hemodraulix, drive, plus additional forslean. but i was poking around to see if there was anything else new and exciting, and looked at that ana-pro again....
 
EctoPower

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yeah, well :) actually i haven't bought anything since october i think, so basically i'm close to dry on non hormonal stuff, other than AN products, or will be by late jan. Err, well other than the 4 containers of protein, the ON seasonal flavors :) I'm really thinking Hemodraulix, drive, plus additional forslean. but i was poking around to see if there was anything else new and exciting, and looked at that ana-pro again....
Well, since you know what you're doing, maybe the ana-pro is worth a run... assuming it fits your goals. If you're prone to BP issues on PHs, you'll want some hawthorn berry while taking that stuff. I may be the only person to have this issue, but I got a major BP headache on Propadrol because I didn't have HB in the mix. Lethargy too. If you just stick with a scoop per day (10mg Propadrol) it might not be a big deal. But who knows?

I saved the picture of your stash from a few months ago. If you've already gone through most of that, then you are a supplement freakazoid!
 
EasyEJL

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lots of it got traded around too, or given away :) I still have most of the protein, and the bulk bcaa, beta alanine, taurine, glutamine. and somehow i've ended up with more hormonal stuff in my trades.
 
EctoPower

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lots of it got traded around too, or given away :) I still have most of the protein, and the bulk bcaa, beta alanine, taurine, glutamine. and somehow i've ended up with more hormonal stuff in my trades.
Nice!
 

jasonschaffin

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Originally Posted by prld2gr8ns
Actually I think it's sans the ai portion:

Courtesy NP webpage:

EST has fortified Ana-Pro Blend with Propadrol (6-17 dihydroxy- etiocholove -3-ol proponate)
I may be wrong, but at first glance that looks like 3-OHAT to me, which would mean that it is the AI portion. It's a metabolite of 6-OXO, I believe.
Your are not wrong. That is a metabolite of 6-oxo, similar to what is found in Novadex XT but the ketones have all been changed to hydroxyl groups. I believe it also has a propionate ester.

Novedex XT (60 caps)

Manufacturered By: Gaspari
Supplement Facts

Serving Size: 1 capsule
Servings per Container: 60


Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Proprietary Blend 60mg
[6, 17-keto-etiocholeve-3-ol tetrahydropyranol],
[3, 17-keto-etiochol-triene],
[3%rsquo,5,7-trihydroxy-4%rsquo-methoxyflavone].
EDIT: I made that sound like fact. From what I can tell/heard that is what it seems.
 
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EasyEJL

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yeah, but i'm still confused then as to whether propadrol's action is primarily caused by the AI portion or the other part, and why it is listed a propadrol on the ana-pro. I mean what do they call the "designer hormone" part of propadrol then? and either way, I'm still not sure I like the idea of a steroidal AI in my protein mix. or creatine for that matter
 
strategicmove

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I really think past 4 or 5 gets messy unless it is a multivitamin, or going to be the only thing you take. And i'm an addict, so I can't manage to take just one thing.
If "overly complex" refers to the number of different ingredients in a blend or product, an "overly complex" product may still be effective! The key, as we all know, is to use ingredients that are synergistic. If they turn out to be 10, more or less, then so be it, as long as they each make an individual difference to the whole product. So, the number of different ingredient's used does not put me as off as the chronic under-dosing of ingredients in a formula :thumbsup:
 
strategicmove

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I really think past 4 or 5 gets messy unless it is a multivitamin, or going to be the only thing you take. And i'm an addict, so I can't manage to take just one thing.
Sounds like you prefer (overly) complex products :D
 
EasyEJL

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Sounds like you prefer (overly) complex products :D
no, just multiple products. For instance I like a simpler pre workout forumla because of what other supps I take as well. like beta alanine for instance. it doesn't have a huge impact on preworkout, but some drinks have it. i'd prefer mixes that don't as many of them are "proprietary blends" and I don't know how much ba is in them, and it will then monkey with my overall ba strategy
 
heebs10

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does muscle techs anabolic halo require pct? just kidding...

anyways i think some companies just dont do much research when formulating their products and try to compensate by throwing everything they can find in to it.

i also think the way some companies think that the consumers (mostly the noobs) think more is always better. i guess those two points are pretty obvious though.
 

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