Why can't you stack EAAs, and BCAAS?

  1. New Member
    Fatal Wisdom's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    26
    Posts
    371
    Rep Power
    277
    Level
    16
    Lv. Percent
    72.25%

    Why can't you stack EAAs, and BCAAS?


    Just curious?

    I know eeas are for bulking, and bcaas for maintaing/cutting.

    But it'd be nice to do both lol

  2. Senior Member
    asianbabe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Age
    29
    Posts
    1,616
    Rep Power
    1810
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    59.73%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    For my workouts I use mix one scoop of Purple Wraath with one scoop of Xtend. If cost is not an issue, I don't see why you cannot. Anyway, EAAs have BCAAs in them, so in a sense you are getting "both"
  3. Registered User
    Ubiquitous's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,462
    Rep Power
    1851
    Level
    42
    Lv. Percent
    2.51%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    If you do some research on the particular amino acids you are talking about, you will notice something that makes your post a little redundant.

    BCAAs are EAAs. They are just Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine. They are the ones singled out because they have benefits that BBers and PLers, or anyone who trains would want. There are certain aminos in EAAs that have slight contraindications with the bioavailability with the 3 BCAAs alongside.

    Regardless, both will do your body good. You do know that they are just, in laymans terms, high grade uncut protein?
    •   
       

  4. New Member
    Fatal Wisdom's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    26
    Posts
    371
    Rep Power
    277
    Level
    16
    Lv. Percent
    72.25%

    Haha, yes!

    Thank you wise half pony man!

    <3



    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    If you do some research on the particular amino acids you are talking about, you will notice something that makes your post a little redundant.

    BCAAs are EAAs. They are just Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine. They are the ones singled out because they have benefits that BBers and PLers, or anyone who trains would want. There are certain aminos in EAAs that have slight contraindications with the bioavailability with the 3 BCAAs alongside.

    Regardless, both will do your body good. You do know that they are just, in laymans terms, high grade uncut protein?
  5. Diamond Member
    strategicmove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    10,754
    Rep Power
    774633
    Level
    68
    Lv. Percent
    25.26%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    ...

    BCAAs are EAAs. They are just Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine. They are the ones singled out because they have benefits that BBers and PLers, or anyone who trains would want. There are certain aminos in EAAs that have slight contraindications with the bioavailability with the 3 BCAAs alongside....
    Generally agree, except for the highlighted area. BCAAs are the most anabolic EAAs. Within BCAAs, Leucine is the most anabolic. However, for BCAAs to deliver maximum results, the rest of the Essential Amino Acids must be present. So, concentrating on BCAAs alone, at the exclusion of the other EAAs is as sub-optimal as concentrating on Leucine alone, at the exclusion of other BCAAs. It is hard to understand why there should be a compatibility/bioavailability issue within EAAs!
    Product Educator | USPowders
    Statements made by this online persona are the sole property of the owner, and do not necessarily reflect USPowders’ opinion as a whole.
  6. Registered User
    Ubiquitous's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,462
    Rep Power
    1851
    Level
    42
    Lv. Percent
    2.51%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    I had found a study that showed that excess methionine (an EAA) had a negative effect on weight. When methionine and arginine levels were lowered in the contolled diet, weight gain occured.

    I suppose it might be pure speculation to consider it a direct contraindication between Methionine and the positive effects of strict BCAA supplementation, but it did pique my interest when I found it.

    here is the study. American Society for Nutrition © 1996

    Optimizing the Pattern of Essential Amino Acids as the Sole Source of Dietary Nitrogen Supports Near-Maximal Growth in Kittens -- Taylor et al. 126 (9): 2243 -- Journal of Nutrition

    Optimizing the Pattern of Essential Amino Acids as the Sole Source of Dietary Nitrogen Supports Near-Maximal Growth in Kittens1,2,3,

    Timothy P. Taylor*, James G. Morris*, Neil H. Willits and Quinton R. Rogers*,4
    * Department of Molecular Biosciences Department of Statistics, University of California, Davis, CA 95616

    Most experiments conducted to determine the optimal essential amino acid (EAA) nitrogen to total nitrogen (E:T) ratio in rats, chicks and other species have shown that weight gain and nitrogen retention are optimal when the ratio is between 0.5 and 0.65. Two experiments were conducted to determine if weight gains of kittens fed EAA as a sole source of dietary nitrogen were equivalent to those of kittens fed a control diet that contained equal amounts of EAA and dispensable amino acids (DAA). In the first experiment, kittens fed diets that contained only EAA lost weight. Amino acid analysis of plasma showed that the concentration of methionine was 9.1 times that of controls, supporting the premise that the weight loss that occurred was the result of an adverse effect of excess methionine. Also, plasma threonine and arginine were elevated whereas proline and asparagine were very low. In the second experiment, feeding lower concentrations of methionine and arginine in a diet containing only EAA resulted in weight gains and nitrogen retention that were not significantly different from results for kittens fed the control diet (E:T ratio = 0.5). The addition of proline and asparagine to this EAA diet or their removal from the control diet did not improve or reduce weight gain or nitrogen retention. It is concluded that the decreased weight gain found in kittens (and probably other species) fed only EAA is the result of an adverse effect of excesses of methionine and possibly other EAA, and not the inability to synthesize DAA. If excesses of certain EAA are avoided, near-maximal weight gain can be achieved without any DAA in the diet.

    KEY WORDS: • essential amino acids • dispensable amino acids • feline • kittens

    1 Supported by WALTHAM Centre for Pet Nutrition, Waltham-on-the-Wolds, UK.

    2 Presented in part at Experimental Biology 94, April 24–28, 1994, Anaheim, CA [Taylor, T., Morris, J. G. & Rogers, Q. R. (1994) Essential amino acids without dispensable amino acids support normal weight gain in kittens. FASEB J. 8: A545 (abs. 3157)].

    3 The costs of publication of this article were defrayed in part by the payment of page charges. This article must therefore be hereby marked "advertisement" in accordance with 18 USC section 1734 solely to indicate this fact.

    4 To whom correspondance and reprint requests should be addressed.

    Manuscript received 8 September 1995. Revision accepted 30 May 1996.
  7. Senior Member
    nelix's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,329
    Rep Power
    757
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    47.49%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Maybe there is a blend of aminos that is worth while somewhere in the middle of BCAA and EAA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    I had found a study that showed that excess methionine (an EAA) had a negative effect on weight. When methionine and arginine levels were lowered in the contolled diet, weight gain occured.

    I suppose it might be pure speculation to consider it a direct contraindication between Methionine and the positive effects of strict BCAA supplementation, but it did pique my interest when I found it.

    here is the study. American Society for Nutrition © 1996

    Optimizing the Pattern of Essential Amino Acids as the Sole Source of Dietary Nitrogen Supports Near-Maximal Growth in Kittens -- Taylor et al. 126 (9): 2243 -- Journal of Nutrition

    Optimizing the Pattern of Essential Amino Acids as the Sole Source of Dietary Nitrogen Supports Near-Maximal Growth in Kittens1,2,3,

    Timothy P. Taylor*, James G. Morris*, Neil H. Willits and Quinton R. Rogers*,4
    * Department of Molecular Biosciences Department of Statistics, University of California, Davis, CA 95616

    Most experiments conducted to determine the optimal essential amino acid (EAA) nitrogen to total nitrogen (E:T) ratio in rats, chicks and other species have shown that weight gain and nitrogen retention are optimal when the ratio is between 0.5 and 0.65. Two experiments were conducted to determine if weight gains of kittens fed EAA as a sole source of dietary nitrogen were equivalent to those of kittens fed a control diet that contained equal amounts of EAA and dispensable amino acids (DAA). In the first experiment, kittens fed diets that contained only EAA lost weight. Amino acid analysis of plasma showed that the concentration of methionine was 9.1 times that of controls, supporting the premise that the weight loss that occurred was the result of an adverse effect of excess methionine. Also, plasma threonine and arginine were elevated whereas proline and asparagine were very low. In the second experiment, feeding lower concentrations of methionine and arginine in a diet containing only EAA resulted in weight gains and nitrogen retention that were not significantly different from results for kittens fed the control diet (E:T ratio = 0.5). The addition of proline and asparagine to this EAA diet or their removal from the control diet did not improve or reduce weight gain or nitrogen retention. It is concluded that the decreased weight gain found in kittens (and probably other species) fed only EAA is the result of an adverse effect of excesses of methionine and possibly other EAA, and not the inability to synthesize DAA. If excesses of certain EAA are avoided, near-maximal weight gain can be achieved without any DAA in the diet.

    KEY WORDS: • essential amino acids • dispensable amino acids • feline • kittens

    1 Supported by WALTHAM Centre for Pet Nutrition, Waltham-on-the-Wolds, UK.

    2 Presented in part at Experimental Biology 94, April 24–28, 1994, Anaheim, CA [Taylor, T., Morris, J. G. & Rogers, Q. R. (1994) Essential amino acids without dispensable amino acids support normal weight gain in kittens. FASEB J. 8: A545 (abs. 3157)].

    3 The costs of publication of this article were defrayed in part by the payment of page charges. This article must therefore be hereby marked "advertisement" in accordance with 18 USC section 1734 solely to indicate this fact.

    4 To whom correspondance and reprint requests should be addressed.

    Manuscript received 8 September 1995. Revision accepted 30 May 1996.
  8. Registered User
    Ubiquitous's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,462
    Rep Power
    1851
    Level
    42
    Lv. Percent
    2.51%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    BCAA is the optimal profile I think. As was discussed they are the aminos singled out from the group of EAAs for our purposes. It's not that the other EAAs don't help, I was just stating that too much Methionine has shown some negative effects on weight in controlled studies on kittens.

    I have cat in me, so I was concerned.
  9. New Member
    methodice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    417
    Rep Power
    348
    Level
    16
    Lv. Percent
    55.77%

    Interesting study you gave ubiqu
  10. Senior Member
    nelix's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,329
    Rep Power
    757
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    47.49%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    BCAA (in me) yields more side effects then EAA... So I am on a mission to find out a better alternative to both.
  11. Registered User
    Ubiquitous's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,462
    Rep Power
    1851
    Level
    42
    Lv. Percent
    2.51%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Try Gemma (pea) protein, it has a good amino profile. Just go for Leucine if you feel shafted.
  12. Senior Member
    nelix's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,329
    Rep Power
    757
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    47.49%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    Try Gemma (pea) protein, it has a good amino profile. Just go for Leucine if you feel shafted.
    Leucine mixed with a single serve of xtend is my current thing, tastes good, has heaps of leucine, does not make my pants baggy (if you know what I mean? )
  13. Diamond Member
    strategicmove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    10,754
    Rep Power
    774633
    Level
    68
    Lv. Percent
    25.26%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous;
    I had found a study that showed that excess methionine (an EAA) had a negative effect on weight. When methionine and arginine levels were lowered in the contolled diet, weight gain occured.

    I suppose it might be pure speculation to consider it a direct contraindication between Methionine and the positive effects of strict BCAA supplementation, but it did pique my interest when I found it...
    The amount of methionine you would find in a typical EAA product should not come close to doing any damage. Stand-alone methionine supplementation is hardly recommended. This, as you know, is because high levels of methionine, a sulphur-containing amino acid and precursor of S-Adenosyl-Methionine (SAMe), can lead to elevated homocysteine levels. Homocysteine, also a sulfur-containing amino acid, can be converted into methionine and vice versa. High homocysteine levels are thought to be significantly more dangerous than high cholesterol levels. High methionine levels can be neutralized by consumption of methylators and cofacors such as choline/trimethylglycine, folic acid, zinc, selenium (selenomethionine), B6, B12, and so on.

    So, to summarize, in the absence of additional supplemental methionine intake, EAAs are consistently effective.
    Product Educator | USPowders
    Statements made by this online persona are the sole property of the owner, and do not necessarily reflect USPowders’ opinion as a whole.
  14. Diamond Member
    strategicmove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    10,754
    Rep Power
    774633
    Level
    68
    Lv. Percent
    25.26%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous;
    BCAA is the optimal profile I think. As was discussed they are the aminos singled out from the group of EAAs for our purposes. It's not that the other EAAs don't help, I was just stating that too much Methionine has shown some negative effects on weight in controlled studies on kittens.

    I have cat in me, so I was concerned.
    For EAAs to be effective, a minimum balance is required. Singling out BCAAs alone is sub-optimal. A useful approach, for purposes of recovery and anabolism, would be to take additional BCAAs (on top of the EAAs). Many take additional Leucine (on top of the base EAAs and additional BCAAs) to trigger even better recovery, more anabolism, and deeper fat loss (especially the stubborn brown fat around our lower back/mid-section or "love handles").
    Product Educator | USPowders
    Statements made by this online persona are the sole property of the owner, and do not necessarily reflect USPowders’ opinion as a whole.
  15. Registered User
    Ubiquitous's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  231 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,462
    Rep Power
    1851
    Level
    42
    Lv. Percent
    2.51%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Off topic, that brown adipose tissue is interesting stuff. I have had the strong warm feelings on my back when I was deep in ketosis. That's when I came across the BAT researching possible causes. It was later confirmed to me in a book by the eccentric Dan Duchaine.

    Huh, that makes more sense strategic move. Pray tell what are your credentials? Are you a student?
  16. Diamond Member
    strategicmove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    10,754
    Rep Power
    774633
    Level
    68
    Lv. Percent
    25.26%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous;
    .... Pray tell what are your credentials? Are you a student?
    No, I am not a student. Interesting avatar
    Product Educator | USPowders
    Statements made by this online persona are the sole property of the owner, and do not necessarily reflect USPowders’ opinion as a whole.
  17. Diamond Member
    strategicmove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    10,754
    Rep Power
    774633
    Level
    68
    Lv. Percent
    25.26%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by nelix;
    Leucine mixed with a single serve of xtend is my current thing, tastes good, has heaps of leucine, does not make my pants baggy (if you know what I mean? )
    Xtend appears to be a staple for many!
    Product Educator | USPowders
    Statements made by this online persona are the sole property of the owner, and do not necessarily reflect USPowders’ opinion as a whole.
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. EAAs and BCAA instead of Protein powder?
    By corsaking in forum Supplements
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 12-24-2009, 04:48 PM
  2. Flavored EAA and BCAA? Is this rumor true?
    By clownbaby in forum Nutraplanet
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 09-02-2009, 04:13 PM
  3. how should you stack deca and test e?
    By juicey in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 05-04-2008, 03:44 AM
  4. Would you stack ErgomaxLMG and MDHT...
    By Knowbull in forum Cycle Info
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-20-2006, 02:57 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in