Why can't you stack EAAs, and BCAAS?

[Fatal Wisdom]

Just curious?

I know eeas are for bulking, and bcaas for maintaing/cutting.

But it'd be nice to do both lol

 

[asianbabe]

For my workouts I use mix one scoop of Purple Wraath with one scoop of Xtend. If cost is not an issue, I don't see why you cannot. Anyway, EAAs have BCAAs in them, so in a sense you are getting "both"

 

[Ubiquitous]

If you do some research on the particular amino acids you are talking about, you will notice something that makes your post a little redundant.

BCAAs are EAAs. They are just Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine. They are the ones singled out because they have benefits that BBers and PLers, or anyone who trains would want. There are certain aminos in EAAs that have slight contraindications with the bioavailability with the 3 BCAAs alongside.

Regardless, both will do your body good. You do know that they are just, in laymans terms, high grade uncut protein?

 

[Fatal Wisdom]

Haha, yes!

Thank you wise half pony man!

<3

If you do some research on the particular amino acids you are talking about, you will notice something that makes your post a little redundant.

BCAAs are EAAs. They are just Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine. They are the ones singled out because they have benefits that BBers and PLers, or anyone who trains would want. There are certain aminos in EAAs that have slight contraindications with the bioavailability with the 3 BCAAs alongside.

Regardless, both will do your body good. You do know that they are just, in laymans terms, high grade uncut protein?

 

[strategicmove]

...

BCAAs are EAAs. They are just Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine. They are the ones singled out because they have benefits that BBers and PLers, or anyone who trains would want. There are certain aminos in EAAs that have slight contraindications with the bioavailability with the 3 BCAAs alongside....

Generally agree, except for the highlighted area. BCAAs are the most anabolic EAAs. Within BCAAs, Leucine is the most anabolic. However, for BCAAs to deliver maximum results, the rest of the Essential Amino Acids must be present. So, concentrating on BCAAs alone, at the exclusion of the other EAAs is as sub-optimal as concentrating on Leucine alone, at the exclusion of other BCAAs. It is hard to understand why there should be a compatibility/bioavailability issue within EAAs!

 

[Ubiquitous]

I had found a study that showed that excess methionine (an EAA) had a negative effect on weight. When methionine and arginine levels were lowered in the contolled diet, weight gain occured.

I suppose it might be pure speculation to consider it a direct contraindication between Methionine and the positive effects of strict BCAA supplementation, but it did pique my interest when I found it.

here is the study. American Society for Nutrition © 1996

Optimizing the Pattern of Essential Amino Acids as the Sole Source of Dietary Nitrogen Supports Near-Maximal Growth in Kittens -- Taylor et al. 126 (9): 2243 -- Journal of Nutrition

Optimizing the Pattern of Essential Amino Acids as the Sole Source of Dietary Nitrogen Supports Near-Maximal Growth in Kittens1,2,3,

Timothy P. Taylor*, James G. Morris*, Neil H. Willits and Quinton R. Rogers*,4
* Department of Molecular Biosciences Department of Statistics, University of California, Davis, CA 95616

Most experiments conducted to determine the optimal essential amino acid (EAA) nitrogen to total nitrogen (E:T) ratio in rats, chicks and other species have shown that weight gain and nitrogen retention are optimal when the ratio is between 0.5 and 0.65. Two experiments were conducted to determine if weight gains of kittens fed EAA as a sole source of dietary nitrogen were equivalent to those of kittens fed a control diet that contained equal amounts of EAA and dispensable amino acids (DAA). In the first experiment, kittens fed diets that contained only EAA lost weight. Amino acid analysis of plasma showed that the concentration of methionine was 9.1 times that of controls, supporting the premise that the weight loss that occurred was the result of an adverse effect of excess methionine. Also, plasma threonine and arginine were elevated whereas proline and asparagine were very low. In the second experiment, feeding lower concentrations of methionine and arginine in a diet containing only EAA resulted in weight gains and nitrogen retention that were not significantly different from results for kittens fed the control diet (E:T ratio = 0.5). The addition of proline and asparagine to this EAA diet or their removal from the control diet did not improve or reduce weight gain or nitrogen retention. It is concluded that the decreased weight gain found in kittens (and probably other species) fed only EAA is the result of an adverse effect of excesses of methionine and possibly other EAA, and not the inability to synthesize DAA. If excesses of certain EAA are avoided, near-maximal weight gain can be achieved without any DAA in the diet.

KEY WORDS: • essential amino acids • dispensable amino acids • feline • kittens

1 Supported by WALTHAM Centre for Pet Nutrition, Waltham-on-the-Wolds, UK.

2 Presented in part at Experimental Biology 94, April 24–28, 1994, Anaheim, CA [Taylor, T., Morris, J. G. & Rogers, Q. R. (1994) Essential amino acids without dispensable amino acids support normal weight gain in kittens. FASEB J. 8: A545 (abs. 3157)].

3 The costs of publication of this article were defrayed in part by the payment of page charges. This article must therefore be hereby marked "advertisement" in accordance with 18 USC section 1734 solely to indicate this fact.

4 To whom correspondance and reprint requests should be addressed.

Manuscript received 8 September 1995. Revision accepted 30 May 1996.

 

[nelix]

Maybe there is a blend of aminos that is worth while somewhere in the middle of BCAA and EAA.

I had found a study that showed that excess methionine (an EAA) had a negative effect on weight. When methionine and arginine levels were lowered in the contolled diet, weight gain occured.

I suppose it might be pure speculation to consider it a direct contraindication between Methionine and the positive effects of strict BCAA supplementation, but it did pique my interest when I found it.

here is the study. American Society for Nutrition © 1996

Optimizing the Pattern of Essential Amino Acids as the Sole Source of Dietary Nitrogen Supports Near-Maximal Growth in Kittens -- Taylor et al. 126 (9): 2243 -- Journal of Nutrition

Optimizing the Pattern of Essential Amino Acids as the Sole Source of Dietary Nitrogen Supports Near-Maximal Growth in Kittens1,2,3,

Timothy P. Taylor*, James G. Morris*, Neil H. Willits and Quinton R. Rogers*,4
* Department of Molecular Biosciences Department of Statistics, University of California, Davis, CA 95616

Most experiments conducted to determine the optimal essential amino acid (EAA) nitrogen to total nitrogen (E:T) ratio in rats, chicks and other species have shown that weight gain and nitrogen retention are optimal when the ratio is between 0.5 and 0.65. Two experiments were conducted to determine if weight gains of kittens fed EAA as a sole source of dietary nitrogen were equivalent to those of kittens fed a control diet that contained equal amounts of EAA and dispensable amino acids (DAA). In the first experiment, kittens fed diets that contained only EAA lost weight. Amino acid analysis of plasma showed that the concentration of methionine was 9.1 times that of controls, supporting the premise that the weight loss that occurred was the result of an adverse effect of excess methionine. Also, plasma threonine and arginine were elevated whereas proline and asparagine were very low. In the second experiment, feeding lower concentrations of methionine and arginine in a diet containing only EAA resulted in weight gains and nitrogen retention that were not significantly different from results for kittens fed the control diet (E:T ratio = 0.5). The addition of proline and asparagine to this EAA diet or their removal from the control diet did not improve or reduce weight gain or nitrogen retention. It is concluded that the decreased weight gain found in kittens (and probably other species) fed only EAA is the result of an adverse effect of excesses of methionine and possibly other EAA, and not the inability to synthesize DAA. If excesses of certain EAA are avoided, near-maximal weight gain can be achieved without any DAA in the diet.

KEY WORDS: • essential amino acids • dispensable amino acids • feline • kittens

1 Supported by WALTHAM Centre for Pet Nutrition, Waltham-on-the-Wolds, UK.

2 Presented in part at Experimental Biology 94, April 24–28, 1994, Anaheim, CA [Taylor, T., Morris, J. G. & Rogers, Q. R. (1994) Essential amino acids without dispensable amino acids support normal weight gain in kittens. FASEB J. 8: A545 (abs. 3157)].

3 The costs of publication of this article were defrayed in part by the payment of page charges. This article must therefore be hereby marked "advertisement" in accordance with 18 USC section 1734 solely to indicate this fact.

4 To whom correspondance and reprint requests should be addressed.

Manuscript received 8 September 1995. Revision accepted 30 May 1996.

 

[Ubiquitous]

BCAA is the optimal profile I think. As was discussed they are the aminos singled out from the group of EAAs for our purposes. It's not that the other EAAs don't help, I was just stating that too much Methionine has shown some negative effects on weight in controlled studies on kittens.

I have cat in me, so I was concerned.

 

[methodice]

Interesting study you gave ubiqu

 

[nelix]

BCAA (in me) yields more side effects then EAA... So I am on a mission to find out a better alternative to both.

 

[Ubiquitous]

Try Gemma (pea) protein, it has a good amino profile. Just go for Leucine if you feel shafted.

 

[nelix]

Try Gemma (pea) protein, it has a good amino profile. Just go for Leucine if you feel shafted.

Leucine mixed with a single serve of xtend is my current thing, tastes good, has heaps of leucine, does not make my pants baggy (if you know what I mean? )

 

[strategicmove]

I had found a study that showed that excess methionine (an EAA) had a negative effect on weight. When methionine and arginine levels were lowered in the contolled diet, weight gain occured.

I suppose it might be pure speculation to consider it a direct contraindication between Methionine and the positive effects of strict BCAA supplementation, but it did pique my interest when I found it...

The amount of methionine you would find in a typical EAA product should not come close to doing any damage. Stand-alone methionine supplementation is hardly recommended. This, as you know, is because high levels of methionine, a sulphur-containing amino acid and precursor of S-Adenosyl-Methionine (SAMe), can lead to elevated homocysteine levels. Homocysteine, also a sulfur-containing amino acid, can be converted into methionine and vice versa. High homocysteine levels are thought to be significantly more dangerous than high cholesterol levels. High methionine levels can be neutralized by consumption of methylators and cofacors such as choline/trimethylglycine, folic acid, zinc, selenium (selenomethionine), B6, B12, and so on.

So, to summarize, in the absence of additional supplemental methionine intake, EAAs are consistently effective.

 

[strategicmove]

BCAA is the optimal profile I think. As was discussed they are the aminos singled out from the group of EAAs for our purposes. It's not that the other EAAs don't help, I was just stating that too much Methionine has shown some negative effects on weight in controlled studies on kittens.

I have cat in me, so I was concerned.

For EAAs to be effective, a minimum balance is required. Singling out BCAAs alone is sub-optimal. A useful approach, for purposes of recovery and anabolism, would be to take additional BCAAs (on top of the EAAs). Many take additional Leucine (on top of the base EAAs and additional BCAAs) to trigger even better recovery, more anabolism, and deeper fat loss (especially the stubborn brown fat around our lower back/mid-section or "love handles").

 

[Ubiquitous]

Off topic, that brown adipose tissue is interesting stuff. I have had the strong warm feelings on my back when I was deep in ketosis. That's when I came across the BAT researching possible causes. It was later confirmed to me in a book by the eccentric Dan Duchaine.

Huh, that makes more sense strategic move. Pray tell what are your credentials? Are you a student?

 

[strategicmove]

.... Pray tell what are your credentials? Are you a student?

No, I am not a student. Interesting avatar

 

[strategicmove]

Leucine mixed with a single serve of xtend is my current thing, tastes good, has heaps of leucine, does not make my pants baggy (if you know what I mean? )

Xtend appears to be a staple for many!