BCAAs and macros...

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    BCAAs and macros...


    So i have heard BCAAs count as protein (calories) and that they dont.

    Also i am kinda confused about this. Since BCAAs are only Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine, they are not a complete protein (im prety sure) so how does that help you? I thought the theory behind BCAAs is that since they are protein in the simplest form your body can utilize them faster.

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    never heard they count as protein... I what was meant was they help your body utilize the protein you intake more efficiently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1 View Post
    never heard they count as protein... I what was meant was they help your body utilize the protein you intake more efficiently.
    agree. That is the way how I see it being counted as "protien".


    Leucine & protein synthesis

    In skeletal muscle, leucine stimulates protein synthesis through multiple independent mechanisms. The first mechanism is increased insulin secretion [7], and insulin is well known to increase body protein balance. However, leucine still stimulates protein synthesis in concentrations that do not increase insulin in vivo, and mechanisms by which leucine increases protein synthesis other than insulin secretion have been identified [7-9]. By itself, leucine stimulates protein synthesis through the mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) pathways, 70-kDa ribosomal protein S6 kinase activity, and enhances eIf4E-binding protein phosphorylation and the association of eukaryotic initiation factor (eIF)4E with eIF4G, effects that have been determined both in vitro and in vivo in humans [9-10]. These effects are directly mediated by leucine, rather than a metabolite, and the specifics of the process are not yet well established [7].

    Multiple animal studies have confirmed the importance of leucine in protein synthesis and/or inhibition of protein catabolism. In vitro in rat muscles, leucine alone stimulates protein synthesis as effectively as all amino acids together [10]. Similarly, leucine and a complete meal were equally as effective at stimulating protein synthesis in fasted rats [11]. However, not all studies have yielded the same results, and this is likely due to the fact that other amino acids and factors are required to synthesize protein [9].

    Studies have also been carried out in humans at rest, which primarily indicate that BCAA's inhibit protein breakdown under this condition. In studies with humans restricted to bed rest, BCAA supplementation decreases nitrogen losses when compared with non-essential amino acids [12]. While some studies indicate that BCAA administration decreases protein breakdown but doesn't increase protein synthesis in humans [9], others indicate that they do increase protein synthesis [8]. This is probably due to differences in study conditions. One study indicated that insulin infusion did not increase protein synthesis, but the combination of insulin and BCAA's did [13].

    Further research has examined the interaction between exercise, BCAA's, and protein synthesis. Since BCAA concentrations are reduced during exercise, it is postulated that BCAA supplementation before, during, or after exercise may have a strong effect on improving muscle protein balance. A study in rats found that leucine stimulated muscle protein synthesis postexercise independently of increased plasma insulin [14]. In humans, studies have found increased protein synthesis and/or decreased protein breakdown when BCAA's are administered before, during, and after various types of exercise, although a few studies have not produced positive results [8, 11, 15-16].

    Although it is clear that leucine is the most important of the BCAA's in stimulating protein synthesis, leucine supplementation alone is not recommended. This is because this can cause an amino acid imbalance, and although the other two BCAA's are less important, inhibiting them by increasing leucine intake may have negative consequences. Increasing dietary leucine decreases the concentrations of valine and isoleucine and blood and muscle tissue, and keeping a dietary balance of BCAA's is particularly important when compared with other amino acids [2]. A high amount of dietary leucine in the long-term depresses food intake and growth in various animals [10]. Thus, it is important to get all of the BCAA's together, rather than supplement with leucine alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cellardude View Post
    Although it is clear that leucine is the most important of the BCAA's in stimulating protein synthesis, leucine supplementation alone is not recommended. This is because this can cause an amino acid imbalance, and although the other two BCAA's are less important, inhibiting them by increasing leucine intake may have negative consequences. Increasing dietary leucine decreases the concentrations of valine and isoleucine and blood and muscle tissue, and keeping a dietary balance of BCAA's is particularly important when compared with other amino acids [2]. A high amount of dietary leucine in the long-term depresses food intake and growth in various animals [10]. Thus, it is important to get all of the BCAA's together, rather than supplement with leucine alone.
    That's exactly what I needed a week or two ago when somebody was asking about pure Leucine supplementation. Where did you pull this from Cellar?

    Also if you're megadosing BCAA (in the range of 50g a day in some cases) I think you should count it in your protein #'s even though it's so specialized, but I don't go that high and I'm no expert on BCAA's expect I take about 10-15 around my workout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph View Post
    That's exactly what I needed a week or two ago when somebody was asking about pure Leucine supplementation. Where did you pull this from Cellar?

    Also if you're megadosing BCAA (in the range of 50g a day in some cases) I think you should count it in your protein #'s even though it's so specialized, but I don't go that high and I'm no expert on BCAA's expect I take about 10-15 around my workout.
    Well according to Layne Norton 3g of Leucine between meals jumpstarts your protein synthesis and is not enough to throw it out of balance, thats what i do atleast. I think it would be stupid to megadose Leucine like some ppl do tho
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1 View Post
    never heard they count as protein... I what was meant was they help your body utilize the protein you intake more efficiently.
    Yeah, some ppl say to count it as protein
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    I don't count it in my protein consumption, But I do use Bcaa's in my daily supp's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph View Post
    That's exactly what I needed a week or two ago when somebody was asking about pure Leucine supplementation. Where did you pull this from Cellar?

    Also if you're megadosing BCAA (in the range of 50g a day in some cases) I think you should count it in your protein #'s even though it's so specialized, but I don't go that high and I'm no expert on BCAA's expect I take about 10-15 around my workout.
    I got it off bulk nutrition.

    They have some pretty neat articles on basic supplements. Good read if you ever have the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1;
    never heard they count as protein... I what was meant was they help your body utilize the protein you intake more efficiently.
    BCAAs definitely count (and should be counted) as proteins! BCAAs (Leucine, Iso-Leucine, Valine) are part of essential amino acids, EAAs (Leucine, Iso-Leucine, Valine, Lysine, Methionine, Phenylalanine, Threonine, and Tryptophan). These EAAs, combined with non-essential amino acids, NEAAs (Alanine, Arginine, Aspartic Acid, Asparagine, Cysteine and Cystine, Glutamic Acid, Glutamine, Glycine, Histidine, Proline, Serine, and Tyrosine), produce the complete profile of the 20 "true" amino acids. These amino acids are the building blocks of proteins, but are counted as proteins when you supplement them. By the way, arginine and histidine are essential amino acids for infants, since they are unable to produce them yet. Furthermore, carnitine, citrulline, hydroxyproline, ornithine, and taurine are amino-acid co-factors. As such, they are either precursors of, or products, of the 20 so-called "true" amino acids. In any case, when you take 20gr or so of your protein shake, you do not say you took 20gr of amino acids. You say 20gr of proteins, even though the shake is made up of essential and non-essential amino acids. So, the true amino acids (BCAAs, EAAs, and NEAAs) all count as proteins.
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    They have calories. So count them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    BCAAs definitely count (and should be counted) as proteins! BCAAs (Leucine, Iso-Leucine, Valine) are part of essential amino acids, EAAs (Leucine, Iso-Leucine, Valine, Lysine, Methionine, Phenylalanine, Threonine, and Tryptophan). These EAAs, combined with non-essential amino acids, NEAAs (Alanine, Arginine, Aspartic Acid, Asparagine, Cysteine and Cystine, Glutamic Acid, Glutamine, Glycine, Histidine, Proline, Serine, and Tyrosine), produce the complete profile of the 20 "true" amino acids. These amino acids are the building blocks of proteins, but are counted as proteins when you supplement them. By the way, arginine and histidine are essential amino acids for infants, since they are unable to produce them yet. Furthermore, carnitine, citrulline, hydroxyproline, ornithine, and taurine are amino-acid co-factors. As such, they are either precursors of, or products, of the 20 so-called "true" amino acids. In any case, when you take 20gr or so of your protein shake, you do not say you took 20gr of amino acids. You say 20gr of proteins, even though the shake is made up of essential and non-essential amino acids. So, the true amino acids (BCAAs, EAAs, and NEAAs) all count as proteins.
    that will make my watermelon xtend taste even better knowing that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by asianbabe View Post
    They have calories. So count them.
    thought i read a post by cl where someone asked how many cals were in serving of pw, and the answer was around 5 per serving.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    thought i read a post by cl where someone asked how many cals were in serving of pw, and the answer was around 5 per serving.
    Link? Should be roughly 4cals/g - if a serving is 10-11g, it would be more like 40cals...
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt;
    thought i read a post by cl where someone asked how many cals were in serving of pw, and the answer was around 5 per serving.
    Fat: 1 gramme = 9 calories
    Protein: 1 gramme = 4 calories
    Carbohydrates: 1 gramme = 4 calories
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    Quote Originally Posted by asianbabe View Post
    Link? Should be roughly 4cals/g - if a serving is 10-11g, it would be more like 40cals...
    just looked up pw, it shows zero cals, i think that is why the question got asked in first place. sorry i dont have a clue where i read that post at, its been awhile.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Fat: 1 gramme = 9 calories
    Protein: 1 gramme = 4 calories
    Carbohydrates: 1 gramme = 4 calories
    excuse me if i am on the wrong track here, but should'nt bcaa's be considered like an extract of protein. sort of like divaniil and nettle. so the caloric content of protein would'nt be relevant to bcaa's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt;
    excuse me if i am on the wrong track here, but should'nt bcaa's be considered like an extract of protein. sort of like divaniil and nettle. so the caloric content of protein would'nt be relevant to bcaa's.
    Like I indicated in my earlier post, BCAAs are amino acids, and as such are a part of the building blocks of proteins. Even proteins have a caloric equivalent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    thought i read a post by cl where someone asked how many cals were in serving of pw, and the answer was around 5 per serving.
    i know xtend is 20 cals per scoop (im pretty sure, maybe 20cals per 2 scoops?)
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    if u look at the bottle of extend it doesnt have any caloric quantities and purple wrath actually claims 0 cals
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    if u look at the bottle of extend it doesnt have any caloric quantities and purple wrath actually claims 0 cals
    yes, because the FDA doesnt require or doenst allow BCAA/EAA products to put cals on their labels, dont ask me why
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    yup just found an study and it varies for each, but the aminos are carryin between 3.9 and 5.3 calories per gram
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