Excess Arachidonic Acid is damagingthe inflammation and Joint

[John Smeton]

If you look at the Special Winter edition 2007-2008 Life extension magazine it has all the diagrams and information. Simply put excess
Arachidonic Acid is damaging. This is how it works Consumption of Arachidonic acid-rich foods such as egg yolk, red meat, poultry, dairy products and organ meat, and of course taking it directly leads to a lot of Arachidonic Acid in the body. A lot of Arachidonic acid converts to increased production of 5-Lipoxygenase(5-LOX), which interferes with healthy Cellular divison.) 5-LOX breaks down to eccess accumulation of leukotriene B4, a pro-inflamatory compound that attacks the joints, arterial wall, and other tissues

There is one supplement out there that inhibits the production of 5-Lipoxygenase so this can be useful.

Fish and olive oils are not recommended because they block the InFlammation and Joint Destruction Arachidonic Acid causes.

These are pure facts!

In defense of Arachidonic Acid, if it works it works. Some one on this board pmed me warnign me not to try it. We have a few logs here that says it working.


Offense of Arachidonic Acid it better work d.a.m.n. like it says and not any less because the side effcts and damage to arterie walls, joints and inflammation are no way the price to pay for two pounds. It better be at least ten pounds. and than you better take a break and get plenty of fish and olive oil in.

 

[Aeternitatis]

What happens when things get "simply put"? Well, they often get misrepresented.

That's all. :rasp:

 

[Topfueljunkie]

Oh boy ! Here we go again with another "Arachidonic Acid is bad for you" thread ! I gotta tell ya man that there have been numerous studies done AA that Molecular did ensuring safety AND efficacy before the release of X-factor. There was a double blind, placebo controlled evaluation done on x-factor (which is AA) and there were NO significant changes in clinical safety markers indicating detrimental effects to health. JJOHN!!!!!....Get in here and help a bro out!:rant:

Edit: Tell 'em Aety!!!

 

[krogtaar]

wow you are smart...biochemist?

 

[matthew76]

Smelton - I could actually understand your post - - - - this time, so congrates on that!

But bro, ANYTHING can be bad for you. No matter what drug, supplement, fruit, toilet paper - it all can be bad for you. Someone will find a way to throw a negative spin on it - trust me! If you do not feel comfortable taking it - you have that choice.

Even the 'natural' supplements can be bad.

 

[Topfueljunkie]

wow you are smart...biochemist?

who? me?

 

[John Smeton]

Smelton - I could actually understand your post - - - - this time, so congrates on that!

But bro, ANYTHING can be bad for you. No matter what drug, supplement, fruit, toilet paper - it all can be bad for you. Someone will find a way to throw a negative spin on it - trust me! If you do not feel comfortable taking it - you have that choice.

Even the 'natural' supplements can be bad.

Of course, Matthew too much of anythingcan be bad for you.Im stating facts. If it turns out to work and relatively safe, Ill be happy to put on another ten pounds of muscle on my big ass. Have you tryed arachidonic-acid yourself or are you trying it?

 

[Topfueljunkie]

Smelton - I could actually understand your post - - - - this time, so congrates on that!

Now THAT'S FUNNY!

 

[John Smeton]

wow you are smart...biochemist?

Nope its in the life extension magazine.

 

[John Smeton]

Crowler, I see you in the thread, what is your take on excess arachidonic-acid?

 

[TripDog]

Smelton - I could actually understand your post - - - - this time, so congrates on that!

But bro, ANYTHING can be bad for you. No matter what drug, supplement, fruit, toilet paper - it all can be bad for you. Someone will find a way to throw a negative spin on it - trust me! If you do not feel comfortable taking it - you have that choice.

Even the 'natural' supplements can be bad.

:clap2::clap2: GOOD POST brother................check your E-mail!!!!

 

[matthew76]

I'm not going to try it - it's just not for me.

Of course, Matthew too much of anythingcan be bad for you.Im stating facts. If it turns out to work and relatively safe, Ill be happy to put on another ten pounds of muscle on my big ass. Have you tryed arachidonic-acid yourself or are you trying it?

 

[BullzEye]

Oh Geez, not this sh*t again!

 

[ReaperX]

There seems to be a lot of controversy about AA. I already ordered a couple bottles of X-Factor anyway just to try it out.

Since I am natural and I don't want to use hormonal supplements this is a good alternative to try, which is why I am trying it out. At the same time one cycle of X-Factor will not kill you.

Despite what bad press AA gets, I find it hard to believe that X-Factor is worse than Superdrol.

 

[ReaperX]

At any rate, at least for me there are not a lot of decent options out there right now for natural quality supps so I decided to just give x-factor a whirl....again.

 

[edwards]

good info smeton. all information that helps
people make informed decisions is good.

 

[ReaperX]

I like the idea of supplementing long-term with AA though (i.e. 1 gel/day only). I think the safety aspect is dose dependent.

 

[strategicmove]

We need to approach this rather "sensitive" issue in a balanced fashion. No one is attacking X-Factor. It appears to be a solid formulation. There are very good reviews of the product here, as we all know. Yet, it is still legitimate to draw attention to the inflammatory properties of arachidonic acid. Smeaton_yea's points are valid. I have also done one thread and several posts on arachidonic acid on this forum. And even reproduced the charts from Life Extension to show arachidonic acid's role in the inflammatory cascade, plus the different anti-inflammatory agents that can be used to neutralize arachidonic acid.

I understand jjohn's position on this product. And respect it. I think highly of him as a true believer in his product. X-Factor is a successful product. I would personally not use it, though, as I do not want to expose my system to such onslaught of inflammatory agents over an extended period of time. This does not take anything away from X-Factor and its efficacy. To everyone his own :thumbsup:

 

[dsade]

First you need to account for the fact that AA is incorporated into your celullar membrane. The act of working out FREES that AA and sends it into the cascade that results in production of prostaglandins (thus triggering growth).

Excess AA intake, without working out, would be the culprit IMO.

Think of your membranes like a sponge, and working out like squeezing the sponge...once you free the AA to do its thing, you will not have a huge amount accumulating to do much, if any, damage.

 

[ReaperX]

First you need to account for the fact that AA is incorporated into your celullar membrane. The act of working out FREES that AA and sends it into the cascade that results in production of prostaglandins (thus triggering growth).

Excess AA intake, without working out, would be the culprit IMO.

Think of your membranes like a sponge, and working out like squeezing the sponge...once you free the AA to do its thing, you will not have a huge amount accumulating to do much, if any, damage.

Per daily serving, what amount would be considered 'excess' ?

 

[dsade]

Per daily serving, what amount would be considered 'excess' ?

I have no way to know.

Depends how hard you work out, and your own body's efficiency/reactions.

There is no short answer, but I would call 2 grams upper limit. My methodology is sound...I pulled the answer out of my butt.

 

[ReaperX]

I just checked the FDA's website. There are different amounts for running omega-3+omega-6 acids together.

However, if you were to just run omega-6 solo (i.e. Archadonic Acid) the 'safe level' is 30mg/kg of bodyweight each day. This was published in 2001.


Hope this helps.

 

[ReaperX]

For me even playing it modest, this runs around a 'safe level' of over 2g/ED which I don't consume nearly that much.

The thing is there is no time limit set, so personal judgement would be needed in this.

 

[jjohn]

Per daily serving, what amount would be considered 'excess' ?

Some trials have been done saying AA is safe (for someone phisically active) at 1700 mg. So 1 gram (MAX dosage recommended) was proven safe and effective. And like Dsade said, the key phrase in all this is: "Training FREES AA".

The problem with all this is that AA is elevated in people who are fat and unhealthy, and nutritionists still think there is a correlation.

High AA levels are to be expected in a sedentary person BUT cannot simply be linked to bad health.

Here is a study that you need to read bud:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/79918-new-arachidonic-acid.html

 

[ReaperX]

Some trials have been done saying AA is safe (for someone phisically active) at 1700 mg. So 1 gram (MAX dosage recommended) was proven safe and effective. And like Dsade said, the key phrase in all this is: "Training FREES AA".

The problem with all this is that AA is elevated in people who are fat and unhealthy, and nutritionists still think there is a correlation.

High AA levels are to be expected in a sedentary person BUT cannot simply be linked to bad health.

Here is a study that you need to read bud:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/79918-new-arachidonic-acid.html

I kinda want to do a 1.25g 100 day thing like yours though.

 

[John Smeton]

First you need to account for the fact that AA is incorporated into your celullar membrane. The act of working out FREES that AA and sends it into the cascade that results in production of prostaglandins (thus triggering growth).

Excess AA intake, without working out, would be the culprit IMO.

Think of your membranes like a sponge, and working out like squeezing the sponge...once you free the AA to do its thing, you will not have a huge amount accumulating to do much, if any, damage.

Nice Dsade. This is new information.I didnt know AA is freed if your work out. Where did you get this information from?

 

[jjohn]

Nice Dsade. This is new information.I didnt know AA is freed if your work out. Where did you get this information from?

Me. I know everything.

 

[dsade]

Nice Dsade. This is new information.I didnt know AA is freed if your work out. Where did you get this information from?

It is somewhat of a mechanical reaction. When you perturb the membrane (from injury, etc) the AA is released as an immediate signal to increase sensitivity to pain (hey...you just jacked up your shoulder...might want to stop using it dumbass...here, let me make it hurt really bad). This is how Advil, etc reduce pain...by blocking this effect.

Anyway, the initial injury signal is also a POWERFUL intercellular communication signal as well as an intracellular recovery signal.

Prostaglandins are amazing in this way...not only do they signal within the cell to begin preparation for rapid healing/recovery, but they also travel to adjacent cells spreading the same signal.

 

[thesinner]

AA is needed for the production of leukotrienes and prostraglandins.

Perhaps you're familiar with a certain class of drugs known as NSAIDs, which are used for arthritis patients. These block the cyclooxygenase enzymes needed to produce prostraglandins and whatnot, which are associated with joint inflammation. Ever hear people talking about the use of Ibuprofen and/or Aspirin can deter muscle gains? They're blocking the formation of the same things AA promotes.

Take the good with the bad.

 

[AnonyMoose]

If you look at the Special Winter edition 2007-2008 Life extension magazine it has all the diagrams and information. Simply put excess
Arachidonic Acid is damaging. This is how it works Consumption of Arachidonic acid-rich foods such as egg yolk, red meat, poultry, dairy products and organ meat, and of course taking it directly leads to a lot of Arachidonic Acid in the body. A lot of Arachidonic acid converts to increased production of 5-Lipoxygenase(5-LOX), which interferes with healthy Cellular divison.) 5-LOX breaks down to eccess accumulation of leukotriene B4, a pro-inflamatory compound that attacks the joints, arterial wall, and other tissues

There is one supplement out there that inhibits the production of 5-Lipoxygenase so this can be useful.

Fish and olive oils are not recommended because they block the InFlammation and Joint Destruction Arachidonic Acid causes.

These are pure facts!

In defense of Arachidonic Acid, if it works it works. Some one on this board pmed me warnign me not to try it. We have a few logs here that says it working.


Offense of Arachidonic Acid it better work d.a.m.n. like it says and not any less because the side effcts and damage to arterie walls, joints and inflammation are no way the price to pay for two pounds. It better be at least ten pounds. and than you better take a break and get plenty of fish and olive oil in.

Fish and olive oils are not recommended because they block the InFlammation and Joint Destruction Arachidonic Acid causes. - so that means they would be good to take along with it or not good to take in conjunction with it?

 

[dsade]

AA is needed for the production of leukotrienes and prostraglandins.

Perhaps you're familiar with a certain class of drugs known as NSAIDs, which are used for arthritis patients. These block the cyclooxygenase enzymes needed to produce prostraglandins and whatnot, which are associated with joint inflammation. Ever hear people talking about the use of Ibuprofen and/or Aspirin can deter muscle gains? They're blocking the formation of the same things AA promotes.

Take the good with the bad.

IMO, what is great about XF is that it works by tipping the balance slightly...not a sledgehammer approach of hormones, but a nudge over towards increased production that yields some quite impressive results.

 

[ReaperX]

Fish and olive oils are not recommended because they block the InFlammation and Joint Destruction Arachidonic Acid causes. - so that means they would be good to take along with it or not good to take in conjunction with it?

Well, I believe the inflammation is only one aspect about AA. I think the other benefits that AA has to offer will not be negated via fish oils/ olive oils.

 

[AnonyMoose]

Well, I believe the inflammation is only one aspect about AA. I think the other benefits that AA has to offer will not be negated via fish oils/ olive oils.

thx -


r u following me?

 

[ReaperX]

thx -


r u following me?

I'm outside watching you through the window.

 

[dsade]

I'm outside watching you through the window.

I wondered what that moist slapping sound was.


/calls cops.

 

[ReaperX]

I wondered what that moist slapping sound was.


/calls cops.

Mos 'def. I'm almost done tho.

 

[thesinner]

http://cvphysiology.com/Blood Flow/BF013.htm

here's a pretty good writeup on AA metabolism. Has a nice flow chart, that's easy to follow.

 

[dsade]

http://cvphysiology.com/Blood Flow/BF013.htm

here's a pretty good writeup on AA metabolism. Has a nice flow chart, that's easy to follow.

Well if THAT didn't give me an interesting idea/application.

 

[thesinner]

dammit. I need to stop giving you ideas.

 

[ReaperX]

AA transdermal.

 

[dsade]

AA transdermal.

This was actually the idea that got me my job at Avant...localized transdermal AA.

This idea is a slight variation...more like WHAT tissues would you apply this too (and combined with the rest of my formula.)

 

[thesinner]

kleenex?

 

[dsade]

kleenex?

Yes, please.....AA talk really pumps my nads...I tend to get really overexcited.

 

[thesinner]

PGF2a is a potent luteolytic. I'm not surprised their brewin' overtime.

 

[dsade]

PGF2a is a potent luteolytic. I'm not surprised their brewin' overtime.

You're getting warmer.

 

[johnyq]

LEF...

Let me guess, they were selling their own patented AA binder/remover on page 2?



That magazine is always good for a massive

 

[thesinner]

You're getting warmer.

Well let's see.

It increases IGF receptor density.
Increases LH.
Shuts down mammary production.
Increases Resting Body Temp. (so you really are getting warmer).

PGF2a is used as a "morning after" drug for many farm animals. (cows, pigs, elephants, and of course, goats)

 

[John Smeton]

Honestly Im sketipical.

Dsade,Your saying that the inflammation isnt a factor because working out takes this factor out, correct?

How about the joint issues and aa attacking artertie walls , and whatever else AA does still exist. I guess thats the price one must pay. Which now transfers to a user of AA

John, are you noticing inflammation? How about your joints how are they holding up?

 

[AdelV]

xfactor gave me 0 results and caused a bicep injury..(how do I know it was related? ive never had injuries in my life, no joint pains or muscle aches, last week os xfactor and i wasnt even going hard, INJURY)

thats what i say about it..

 

[jjohn]

xfactor gave me 0 results and caused a bicep injury..(how do I know it was related? ive never had injuries in my life, no joint pains or muscle aches, last week os xfactor and i wasnt even going hard, INJURY)

thats what i say about it..

That just doesn't mean a thing....

When I started taking CEE 2 years ago, I got a hernia. It must've been the CEE I never had an injury before...