2nd ds/ps cycle, looking for input

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    2nd ds/ps cycle, looking for input


    Alright guys, I am starting to plan out my 2nd cycle and am debating between m-drol or havoc/epistane. My first cycle was 4 weeks of havoc at 20/30/30/30 and I saw some decent gains. I was looking for a recomp. Now im looking to put on a bit of size and was just wondering what yall think I should do. M-drol kind of worries me because of the harshness of the compound. Some people have said I should run havoc again but maybe at 30/30/40/40.
    About me: Im 21, 5'9 200 pounds at about 12% bodyfat. I have been lifting for 3 years and am looking to put on some more size.

    Any help is appreciated.

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    Havoc looks good at that dosage. You may even be able to pull off 5 weeks as long as ancilliaries are in order and sides minimal. I don't think you need to make more complicated than that, maybe tryout trisorbagen with it. Other than that make food your #1 friend and plan your training seriously. Good luck.
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    just for good measure, cycle support/life support and a SERM are a must.
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    If you go with EPI... No SERM is required, rather Post Cycle Support and/or Derm Sustain. EPI is very mild and easy on shut down. M-Drol, however, if it's a good batch, can be hard on the boys down stairs and is toxic. A SERM is recommended.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew76 View Post
    If you go with EPI... No SERM is required, rather Post Cycle Support and/or Derm Sustain. EPI is very mild and easy on shut down. M-Drol, however, if it's a good batch, can be hard on the boys down stairs and is toxic. A SERM is recommended.
    really a SERM is not necessary even if epi is run for 5 weeks 20/30/30/40/40, like gtrain was recommending? is it because of its anti e properties or because it just doesn't convert to e? you wouldn't even recommend clom just to get the boys going, or will shutdown still be very mild at that point?
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    With EPI being so mild and actually having anti-E properties, the safest thing, IMHO - would be Post Cycle Support that the sinner(BOB) made for such cycles. SERM's are needed for harsh or strong PH/PS's like Superdrol, Tren, etc...

    Don't be confused though, EPI does not fight estrogen the way Torem, Nolva does... But EPI is easy on shut down.

    I've got friends that only used E-Form after a cycle of EPI (20,20,40,60) and their bloodwork came back awesome...

    The idea of "taking the kitchen sick" for PCT is funny to me. I like to stick with 2 items at the max. That's of course you have the proper blood work too...

    Quote Originally Posted by heebs10 View Post
    really a SERM is not necessary even if epi is run for 5 weeks 20/30/30/40/40, like gtrain was recommending? is it because of its anti e properties or because it just doesn't convert to e? you wouldn't even recommend clom just to get the boys going, or will shutdown still be very mild at that point?
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew76 View Post
    With EPI being so mild and actually having anti-E properties, the safest thing, IMHO - would be Post Cycle Support that the sinner(BOB) made for such cycles. SERM's are needed for harsh or strong PH/PS's like Superdrol, Tren, etc...

    Don't be confused though, EPI does not fight estrogen the way Torem, Nolva does... But EPI is easy on shut down.

    I've got friends that only used E-Form after a cycle of EPI (20,20,40,60) and their bloodwork came back awesome...

    The idea of "taking the kitchen sick" for post cycle therapy is funny to me. I like to stick with 2 items at the max. That's of course you have the proper blood work too...
    thanks for the reply, very informative as always. you think the AI in dermacrine sustain is strong enough to block e rebound or would you think its a good idea to add a little of another mild AI or low dose of ATD if you are not using e-form in your pct?
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    SERM, SERM, SERM, SERM, SERM don't some of you guys get tired of repeating this over and over. Do some of you guys acutally know why you are recommending a SERM?

    I wonder if Gixxer82 would recommend a SERM? He really knows his stuff when it comes to steroids.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew76 View Post
    With EPI being so mild and actually having anti-E properties, the safest thing, IMHO - would be Post Cycle Support that the sinner(BOB) made for such cycles. SERM's are needed for harsh or strong PH/PS's like Superdrol, Tren, etc...

    Don't be confused though, EPI does not fight estrogen the way Torem, Nolva does... But EPI is easy on shut down.

    I've got friends that only used E-Form after a cycle of EPI (20,20,40,60) and their bloodwork came back awesome...

    The idea of "taking the kitchen sick" for post cycle therapy is funny to me. I like to stick with 2 items at the max. That's of course you have the proper blood work too...

    I agree, pct has gotten way out of hand, to the point were people are spending more $ on that than on the cycle itself+ancillaries.
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    thanks for the help guys.
    One more question, if I was to not use a serm for pct then what would yall recommend?
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    Read the thread... they're 2 posted...
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