[USPLabs]

Originally Posted by joebo

USP, Could you provide lab tests for the supply you sent to NP??

It has not been independently tested but the manufacture does have hand one out, but it comes down to trusting the supplier.

[TOYFORDOLET]

Could someone clarify this for me? So... icariins is a more general term constituting chemicals in that class? And icariin is a specific chemical of type icariins?

[saludable24]

Originally Posted by TOYFORDOLET

Could someone clarify this for me? So... icariins is a more general term constituting chemicals in that class? And icariin is a specific chemical of type icariins?

You got it.

[Chuck Diesel]

Originally Posted by TOYFORDOLET

Could someone clarify this for me? So... icariins is a more general term constituting chemicals in that class? And icariin is a specific chemical of type icariins?

right like ephedrine group alkaloids and ephedrine, like yohimbine alkaloids and yohimbine base. Well something like that but more like total ginsenosides in ginseng and then one specific gensinoside.

[USPLabs]

Originally Posted by TOYFORDOLET

Could someone clarify this for me? So... icariins is a more general term constituting chemicals in that class? And icariin is a specific chemical of type icariins?

This is an explanation for a scientist in China that deals with icarian. I am by no means an expert but she is.

Hello, recently we received many business partners feedback. In
international market, there are different Epimedium extracts. My
business partners are confused by their quality and price. Now, we
will introduce them clearely below.


Both of them declared they are Epimedium extract. However, there are
different in their COAs. One showed assay Icariin(HPLC), Another
showed Icariins(HPLC). The difference between them is "S" behaind
icariin. It really is a little difference. Someone will ignore it.
However, it caused big difference in quality and price.


Epimedium extract has a long history in chines traddtional medicine.
Chinese medicine experts researched it for many years and established
strictly quality standard. It was documented in chinese pharmacopoeia.
We will attached in our forum files. Members can download it freely.
This analysis method is stable and is used by chinese SFDA. It also is
a purchase standard accpeted by chinese epimeidum extract fomula GMP
factory.


Then, when Icariins came forth? When epimedium extract just entered
USA market, No one knew who set up a analysis method to identified
icariin. Maybe a researcher in a USA lab or a teacher in a university.
However, their method isn't precise. it can't separate icariin from
its impurity. Later, they found it is a mistake. Finally, they named
their result is Icariins, sometime they said it double icariin and
named correct single icariin.


Then, we will asked them, since you decleared "double", could you
showed us, what is their chmecal structure and CAS No.? What is their
molecular weight? what is your reference standards? One or two? As we
know, they only use Icariin as HPLC standard reference, then, how to
get the concentration result of double?


We did lots of works about epimedium extract. We compared two kinds of
analysis method. We found, Analysis method of Icariins can't separate
icariin. The peak of icariins were composed by 2-3 chemical substance.
One is icariin, another can't be identified.


Then, conclusion is clearly, Icariins analysis result is higher than
Icariin. The cost of Icariins is lower than Icariin. Lower price
abstract attension of market. However, please be careful in
specification

HPLC Method Testing Icariin

1. Instrument
Agilent-1100 Series (HPLC)
2. HLPC mobile phase
A: Acetonitrile-HPLC grade (filtered by 0.45 mfilm)
B: 0.1 phorphoric acid-HPLC grade (filtered by 0.45 m film)
3. Standard
Icariin ( purchase by NICPBP )
4. Preparation of sample solution
4.1 Weight 5mg extract exactly into10ml dissolution flask.
4.2 Add 20ml HPLC grade methanol and ultrasonic bath until sample has
dissolved, cool to room temperature, then diluting to volume with HPLC
grade methanol.
4.3 Filtering sample through a 0.45 m membrane filter.
5. Preparation of standard solution
Weight Icariin to make the standard solution with the concentration of
0.1mg/ml (Cs).
6. HPLC chromatogram condition
Column: Hypersil C18, 4.0mm I.D×250mm, 5 m
Mobile phase : A/B=25/ 75(v/v)
Flow rate :0.8ml/min
Column temperature:RT
Inject volume: 10 l
Detect Wavelength: UV 270nm
7. Calculation
Icariin % = Ai×Cs×10 ×100%
As×M
Ai: Peak area of extract sample
As: Peak area of Icariin standard
Cs: Concentration of Icariin standard (mg/ml)
M: Weight of extract sample (mg)

[bludevil]

Originally Posted by USPLabs

This is an explanation for a scientist in China that deals with icarian. I am by no means an expert but she is.

Hello, recently we received many business partners feedback. In
international market, there are different Epimedium extracts. My
business partners are confused by their quality and price. Now, we
will introduce them clearely below.


Both of them declared they are Epimedium extract. However, there are
different in their COAs. One showed assay Icariin(HPLC), Another
showed Icariins(HPLC). The difference between them is "S" behaind
icariin. It really is a little difference. Someone will ignore it.
However, it caused big difference in quality and price.


Epimedium extract has a long history in chines traddtional medicine.
Chinese medicine experts researched it for many years and established
strictly quality standard. It was documented in chinese pharmacopoeia.
We will attached in our forum files. Members can download it freely.
This analysis method is stable and is used by chinese SFDA. It also is
a purchase standard accpeted by chinese epimeidum extract fomula GMP
factory.


Then, when Icariins came forth? When epimedium extract just entered
USA market, No one knew who set up a analysis method to identified
icariin. Maybe a researcher in a USA lab or a teacher in a university.
However, their method isn't precise. it can't separate icariin from
its impurity. Later, they found it is a mistake. Finally, they named
their result is Icariins, sometime they said it double icariin and
named correct single icariin.


Then, we will asked them, since you decleared "double", could you
showed us, what is their chmecal structure and CAS No.? What is their
molecular weight? what is your reference standards? One or two? As we
know, they only use Icariin as HPLC standard reference, then, how to
get the concentration result of double?


We did lots of works about epimedium extract. We compared two kinds of
analysis method. We found, Analysis method of Icariins can't separate
icariin. The peak of icariins were composed by 2-3 chemical substance.
One is icariin, another can't be identified.


Then, conclusion is clearly, Icariins analysis result is higher than
Icariin. The cost of Icariins is lower than Icariin. Lower price
abstract attension of market. However, please be careful in
specification

HPLC Method Testing Icariin

1. Instrument
Agilent-1100 Series (HPLC)
2. HLPC mobile phase
A: Acetonitrile-HPLC grade (filtered by 0.45 mfilm)
B: 0.1 phorphoric acid-HPLC grade (filtered by 0.45 m film)
3. Standard
Icariin ( purchase by NICPBP )
4. Preparation of sample solution
4.1 Weight 5mg extract exactly into10ml dissolution flask.
4.2 Add 20ml HPLC grade methanol and ultrasonic bath until sample has
dissolved, cool to room temperature, then diluting to volume with HPLC
grade methanol.
4.3 Filtering sample through a 0.45 m membrane filter.
5. Preparation of standard solution
Weight Icariin to make the standard solution with the concentration of
0.1mg/ml (Cs).
6. HPLC chromatogram condition
Column: Hypersil C18, 4.0mm I.D×250mm, 5 m
Mobile phase : A/B=25/ 75(v/v)
Flow rate :0.8ml/min
Column temperature:RT
Inject volume: 10 l
Detect Wavelength: UV 270nm
7. Calculation
Icariin % = Ai×Cs×10 ×100%
As×M
Ai: Peak area of extract sample
As: Peak area of Icariin standard
Cs: Concentration of Icariin standard (mg/ml)
M: Weight of extract sample (mg)

[Bionic]

Originally Posted by dsade

No worries...it is still planned (and becoming more and more urgent, due to another project).

So far all material samples have been rejected.

Thanks for the reply and WOWEEEEE on the new project!!! Care to drop any hints?

[Lanbane]

My gosh.......... clarification to all reading and potentially confused:
Icariin and Icariins are 2 different things when it comes to a product label.

In essence, Jacob is pretty darn correct w/ everything he has said above.

[GuyverX]

Hulk want Dsade's 98% Icariin.
Hulk say it make gamma ray effect even stronger and make Hulk most powerfull in world.

[Chuck Diesel]

Originally Posted by GuyverX

Hulk want Dsade's 98% Icariin.
Hulk say it make gamma ray effect even stronger and make Hulk most powerfull in world.

Some people dont understand 1,000mg of 10% Icariin is pretty much the same as 200mg at 50% Icariin as 105mg of 98% Icariin.

Unless you have some bad extract or its not as potent as the supplier say it is (if the importer isnt testing it), its just a matter of getting a certain amout of Icariin for various uses.

I think some people think 60%, 50%, whatever % is "stronger" than the other. One maybe more "stonger" because its actually tested and contains a certain amount of Icariin.

With the entire Icariins, Icariin think, I know on my part it was an issue of Icariin versious total Epimedium flavonoids (which may be being refered to as Icariins versus flavonoids).

[GuyverX]

If I were capping the 1000mg would be okay.
But since I am just probably going to take the straight powder I prefer a higher strength and smaller dosage.

[Chuck Diesel]

Originally Posted by GuyverX

If I were capping the 1000mg would be okay.
But since I am just probably going to take the straight powder I prefer a higher strength and smaller dosage.

Yeah thats fine but I was just saying people in general think 500mg at 50% is stronger than 1250mg at 20% and thats not the case, the dif. is actually with the supplier and the quality of the Epimidium.

[Bionic]

Well, that and the fact that with the higher extract, you are getting more Icariin and not everything else in HGW that you may not want to take a higher dose of. So in that regard a higher extract is far superior than mega-dosing HGW.

[Lanbane]

Originally Posted by Bionic

Well, that and the fact that with the higher extract, you are getting more Icariin and not everything else in HGW that you may not want to take a higher dose of. So in that regard a higher extract is far superior than mega-dosing HGW.

True.... plus, there is a lot to be said for the extra space that can be utilized for other ingredients in a cap.