Are Caseins Really Worth It? (Prebed)
10-20-2007 01:34 AM
Are Caseins Really Worth It? (Prebed)
So I've used casein like most bodybuilders based upon the idea that during sleep when th ebody is in a fasted state, muscle can be broken down to be used as fuel - which seems to be the general consensus in terms of marketing for these types of products.
so RER is a measurement which shows the types of fuel actually used for energy (fat, protein, carbs etc). Normal resting RER is ~.8, which is a mixture of fats and carbs. At .7, the body would be using mostly fats as fuel, and at an RER value of 1, the body is using carbohydrates. Anything above an RER value of 1 shows that the lactic threshold has been exceeded and the resulting lactic acid buffers are increasing CO2 eliminated from the body.
So it is actually said that muscle proteins will not be used by the body for energy until nearly all carbs and fats were used first - basically under extreme starvation such as can be seen in concentration camp victims etc.
That being said, according to the ACSM, basically the proteins are not being used for energy and thus the marketing is innacurrate, correct?
Furthermore I was told that current research states that any proteins that are denatured are actually used by our body to form new proteins (basically a brief stint of "catabolism" to spur "anabolism").
I wanted to see everyone's opinion on this - please feel free to correct me if I've mistaken anything.
10-20-2007 10:02 AM
Running with the Big Boys
Micellar casein is a non-denatured form of casein. Another option is to have a milk protein supplement or to eat whole eggs. The logic behind the "pre-bed" protein is to have a slower stream of amino acids available for recovery and growth or to try to minimize catabolism if cutting.
10-20-2007 10:10 AM
I have hydrolysed casein here... I imagine it to be a good mix of fast and slow protein (as obviously it's not 100% broken down)...
The BCAA ratio on casein seemed better, so I got it...
10-20-2007 11:10 AM
Basically what I was asking was - is catabolism during sleep even a significant thing to worry about.
Originally Posted by Rodja
10-20-2007 12:10 PM
I don't think so at all. I started a thread about this yesterday. I seem to sleep a lot better without having the casein before bed. Better sleep = better gains. I for one think you need that fast during sleep.
Originally Posted by Wedgylx
10-20-2007 01:31 PM
I think taking a slow absorbing protein shake before bed is a very good idea. Do you mix your shake with water? maybe that's why you are experiencing frequent urination? Maybe you are drinking too much water in the evening and that is keeping you awake? Long story short, I think getting at least 30 grams of protein and around 10-15 grams of fat before bed is a very good idea.
10-20-2007 04:33 PM
Personally, my favorite source of protein before bed is casein. Cheap, I don't mind eating it, and it's basically pure casein.
10-20-2007 04:58 PM
If your last meal is say an hour before you hit the sack, then I don't necessarily recommend pounding down another protein shake unless, A. you are hungry, B. You are bulking and trying to gain weight (or on anabolics which would help utilize the protein more efficiently). What I do is phase out starches and wheats\grains etc towards the end of the day and replace them with fiber (greens) and fats. I don't find myself craving carbs either, and in turn I am not bloated or anything when going to bed or upon waking. i happen to time my meals so that one of them falls an about 45 mins before I fall asleep. I usually just drink a whey shake in water with a handful of almonds or some natty pb. One should try to fill and maintain their glycogen stores throughout the beginning and middle of the day, where the carbs are more likely to do this, and if you over eat carbs, they will be used as energy hopefully. At night time they would probably just be stored(...as fat).
Takes some time to see how it will work for your body and your schedule.
Another thing is if you eat a balanced meal on your normal (e.g every three hour schedule) and its about two hours before bed...have some BCAA's or EAA's before right before bed, with maybe some fish oils or fats (cumulatively =many fewer calories.) and if you find yourself hungry when you wake up to urinate (which you should if your drinking enough) then have a little casein with some amino's....Dont forget that you will be eating a balanced carb rich breakfast upon waking to fill up those glycogen stores for the next day. If your stores do happen to deplete whilst sleeping, then you still have a steady stream of amino's (from the BCAA's and the bit of casein if you have that too.) and your body should [I]hopefully[I] resort to stored fat to burn for energy once the blood glucose is too low.
Glutamine=good before bed too
10-20-2007 05:51 PM
Casein Pre bed no more!
Maybe somehow we can merge these two?
10-21-2007 12:13 AM
good idea. I posted the same thing in both
Originally Posted by T-Bone
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