*ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION-NEW Beta-Alanine, creatine comparison article in MD!!

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    Exclamation *ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION-NEW Beta-Alanine, creatine comparison article in MD!!






    I just received my electronic version of Muscular Development(Nov pg190) and saw another one of our beta-alanine articles published. They actually forgot Sebastian's name on the article this time, as Anssi and Sebastian collaborated on this write-up..lol But none the less, Sebastian wrote the beta-alanine section and Anssi wrote the leucine section.

    This article is a head on comparison with creatine, showing their similarities and differences. As you all know, beta-alanine consistently gets touted as the next creatine for obvious reasons.

    The point of this article was to show why it is often touted this way, but at the same time, also explain how this statement can be misleading if the details are not fully understood. Hopefully the intention of this article is understood and the reader realizes that beta-alanine DOES NOT replace creatine. At the same time getting the point across, that they do share many parallels, which brings about the comparison.

    You all know I love beta-alanine, but I also have huge respect for creatine and do not want beta-alanine to be known as a replacement to creatine. Not only would it be inaccurate to market beta-alanine this way, it could also stop people from properly understanding how beta-alanine works and how different it is from creatine!

    Creatine is one of my all time favorite supplements and NOTHING can ever replace it. I believe both creatine and beta-alanine to be the two most effective ergogenic aids in sports nutrition by FAR.















    IntraXCell-FAQ-THE DEFINITIVE Beta-Alanine thread-

    SteelEdge FAQ-

    Our product summary review thread-

    Beta-Alanine(IntraXCell) study-

    Beta-Alanine & PreWO articles in Muscular Development!

    Our beta-alanine article- science meets real world results, in Muscular Development-


    ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION interviews OLYMPIC hopeful Michael James!








    Thank you for your support and we have another VERY different article that should be out in MD next month!

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    good article...i am yet to try beta-alanine but i am defiantly planning on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewh10987 View Post
    good article...i am yet to try beta-alanine but i am defiantly planning on it.
    You should give it a try man, its great stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skircus7;
    You should give it a try man, its great stuff
    Agree. A very versatile compound. Be sure, though, to add L-Histidine to it, if it is not already included in the formula. That way, the body can make L-Carnosine out of both of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Agree. A very versatile compound. Be sure, though, to add L-Histidine to it, if it is not already included in the formula. That way, the body can make L-Carnosine out of both of them.
    Is this essential or just a suggestion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewh10987;
    Is this essential or just a suggestion?
    It is essential. Carnosine is a multi-functional di-peptide made up of Beta-Alanine and L-Histidine. Carnosine is actually the real star, not Beta Alanine. However, Carnosine is significantly more expensive to consume as a supplement and research has established that the ingestion of Beta-Alanine and L-Histidine, the two components of Carnosine, is a highly efficient way to elevate cellular Carnosine levels. Beta-Alanine without L-Histidine does not adequately deliver Carnosine, except cellular L-Histidine levels are already very high. Some manufacturers assume this and leave out L-Histidine from their products. I would not take Beta-Alanine without L-Histidine. Essential!
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    It is essential. Carnosine is a multi-functional di-peptide made up of Beta-Alanine and L-Histidine. Carnosine is actually the real star, not Beta Alanine. However, Carnosine is significantly more expensive to consume as a supplement and research has established that the ingestion of Beta-Alanine and L-Histidine, the two components of Carnosine, is a highly efficient way to elevate cellular Carnosine levels. Beta-Alanine without L-Histidine does not adequately deliver Carnosine, except cellular L-Histidine levels are already very high. Some manufacturers assume this and leave out L-Histidine from their products. I would not take Beta-Alanine without L-Histidine. Essential!
    Incorrect, please read our beta-alanine thread.


    Shouldn’t I take extra histidine along with Beta-Alanine since histidine is a component of carnosine?

    No. Histidine is already present in high concentrations in muscle, while Beta-Alanine is only present only in small amounts. Researchers have determined that it is beta-alanine that drives carnosine synthesis, not histidine. Since this has been proven repeatedly in research, there is no need to supplement with extra histidine to increase carnosine levels. There are potentially some select populations like vegans, vegetarians or the elderly that may not get enough histidine in their diets and are thus deficient, which may compromise optimal carnosine levels. But, we still don’t recommend taking just extra histidine with Beta-Alanine. Instead, we recommend these groups and simply bump up their total protein intake which will in turn solve their possible histidine deficiency. For the majority of healthy people, only Beta –Alanine is needed as histidine deficiency is rare and no extra supplementation is needed to increase carnosine concentrations.

    *THE Beta-Alanine, Carnosine Thread, Brought to you by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N;
    Incorrect, please read our beta-alanine thread.


    Shouldn’t I take extra histidine along with Beta-Alanine since histidine is a component of carnosine?

    No. Histidine is already present in high concentrations in muscle, while Beta-Alanine is only present only in small amounts. Researchers have determined that it is beta-alanine that drives carnosine synthesis, not histidine. Since this has been proven repeatedly in research, there is no need to supplement with extra histidine to increase carnosine levels. There are potentially some select populations like vegans, vegetarians or the elderly that may not get enough histidine in their diets and are thus deficient, which may compromise optimal carnosine levels. But, we still don’t recommend taking just extra histidine with Beta-Alanine. Instead, we recommend these groups and simply bump up their total protein intake which will in turn solve their possible histidine deficiency. For the majority of healthy people, only Beta –Alanine is needed as histidine deficiency is rare and no extra supplementation is needed to increase carnosine concentrations.

    *THE Beta-Alanine, Carnosine Thread, Brought to you by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION*
    I think you are the one that has misread my post. Nowhere in my post did I say carnosine synthesis was driven by histidine! I also indicated many manufacturers leave out histidine from their beta alanine formulas due to the assumption that histidine is available in adequate amounts at the cellular level. But because this assumption is not always correct, and because the addition of histidine to a beta-alanine formula does not create a disadvantage, leaving out histidine is almost always a sub-optimal path. And, by the way, I did not recommend ingesting ADDITIONAL histidine with a beta alanine formula. I recommended a product containing both. My overall preference, whenever possible, is to do a genuine carnosine cycle by ingesting a minimum of 1gr of carnosine per day for at least 4 to 6 weeks to saturate my cellular carnosine levels. After that I can return to the usual beta-alanine-plus-histidine combination.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    I think you are the one that has misread my post. Nowhere in my post did I say carnosine synthesis was driven by histidine! I also indicated many manufacturers leave out histidine from their beta alanine formulas due to the assumption that histidine is available in adequate amounts at the cellular level. But because this assumption is not always correct, and because the addition of histidine to a beta-alanine formula does not create a disadvantage, leaving out histidine is almost always a sub-optimal path. And, by the way, I did not recommend ingesting ADDITIONAL histidine with a beta alanine formula. I recommended a product containing both. My overall preference, whenever possible, is to do a genuine carnosine cycle by ingesting a minimum of 1gr of carnosine per day for at least 4 to 6 weeks to saturate my cellular carnosine levels. After that I can return to the usual beta-alanine-plus-histidine combination.
    The assumption that histidine is in adequate amounts in the body is accurate, which is why it is a waste to add it in a supplement and in no way suboptimal. Histidine deficiency even in sedentary people is incredibly uncommon and a moot point for exercise enthusiast with the way we ingest protein. ONLY when there is a deficiency in histidine, are CARN concentrations compromised. A rat study showed this atleast.

    Your statement ""I did not recommend ingesting ADDITIONAL histidine with a beta alanine formula. I recommended a product containing both."" This means you are suggested additional histidine to beta-alanine.

    The research is DEAD clear, that since histidine is already present in adequate amounts, that it is ONLY beta-alanine that is needed for CARN synthesis.

    Dr.Harris THE pioneer of performance beta-alanine research has repeatedly shown this by comparing ending intramuscular CARN concentrations with one group of subjects taking carnosine(BA+his) and the other taking just beta-alanine.

    This original assumption of combining the two came from some old horse studies done by Dr.Harris.

    Combining histidine with beta-alanine, shows a lack of understanding of CARN synthesis. On top of that, the tiny amounts I see in some products...well

    Again, unless you are seriously malnourished in protein, ingesting histidine with beta-alanine is just a waste.



    Regarding your last statement of taking straight carnosine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    Why not just take Carnosine instead of Beta-Alanine?



    When you ingest carnosine intact, most of it is broken down in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract into its constituent amino acids, beta-alanine and histidine. Some intact carnosine does escape the GI tract freely but even that amount is quickly broken down in our blood by the enzyme carnosinase. In a very short time, all the carnosine you just ingested is either eliminated or broken down into beta-alanine and histidine. These two amino acids are then taken into the muscle, where they are converted back into carnosine with the help of the enzyme carnosine synthetase.

    Unfortunately, only about 40% of the carnosine you take actually contains beta-alanine, making it an inefficient source at best. You are better off, from both efficiency and a financial standpoint, taking Beta-Alanine directly. You would have to take substantially more carnosine just to approach the increased concentrations of carnosine achieved by taking the scientifically recommended dose of Beta-Alanine. Clearly, taking Beta-Alanine is the superior solution to increasing carnosine levels.
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    I would definitely feel better with a product formulation containing beta alanine AND histidine, until I see a study that concludes that the presence of histidine compromises beta-alanine efficacy. The entire idea behind beta-alanine supplementation is to elevate and sustain cellular carnosine levels. We are simply trying to mimic a natural process. Nature does the same thing with direct carnosine (= beta alanine + histidine), and we do it with just beta alanine. As far as I recall, after supplementing beta alanine, the body will use up some presumably available cellular histidine to produce carnosine. If cellular histidine levels are inadequate, no carnosine synthesis occurs. So, I still see a need to use histidine in the usual small quantities, unless this is clinically established to compromise carnosine systhesis. If histidine were not necessary, why should a direct ingestion of carnosine be even worthy of consideration?
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    just started my bottle of intraXcell! I have a ticket on the BA train! lol!

    Nice articles, guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    I would definitely feel better with a product formulation containing beta alanine AND histidine, until I see a study that concludes that the presence of histidine compromises beta-alanine efficacy. The entire idea behind beta-alanine supplementation is to elevate and sustain cellular carnosine levels. We are simply trying to mimic a natural process
    . Nature does the same thing with direct carnosine (= beta alanine + histidine), and we do it with just beta alanine. As far as I recall, after supplementing beta alanine, the body will use up some presumably available cellular histidine to produce carnosine. If cellular histidine levels are inadequate, no carnosine synthesis occurs.
    That's the whole point, they are NOT inadequate..lol We get TONS of histidine like we do with all the other amino acids. Even the sedentary person in this country over consumes protein(histidine) You are somehow missing this point I keep trying to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    So, I still see a need to use histidine in the usual small quantities, unless this is clinically established to compromise carnosine systhesis. If histidine were not necessary, why should a direct ingestion of carnosine be even worthy of consideration?
    If you read the beta-alanine research, you would not be stating what you are, it's as simple as that.

    And again. of course histidine is nessesary for CARN synthesis, but we already get MORE then enough in our diets.

    Lastly the direct ingestion of carnosine should NOT be worthy of consideration based of the fact we know it is simply broken down into beta-alanine and histidine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    Why not just take Carnosine instead of Beta-Alanine?



    When you ingest carnosine intact, most of it is broken down in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract into its constituent amino acids, beta-alanine and histidine. Some intact carnosine does escape the GI tract freely but even that amount is quickly broken down in our blood by the enzyme carnosinase. In a very short time, all the carnosine you just ingested is either eliminated or broken down into beta-alanine and histidine. These two amino acids are then taken into the muscle, where they are converted back into carnosine with the help of the enzyme carnosine synthetase.

    Unfortunately, only about 40% of the carnosine you take actually contains beta-alanine, making it an inefficient source at best. You are better off, from both efficiency and a financial standpoint, taking Beta-Alanine directly. You would have to take substantially more carnosine just to approach the increased concentrations of carnosine achieved by taking the scientifically recommended dose of Beta-Alanine. Clearly, taking Beta-Alanine is the superior solution to increasing carnosine levels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macedaddy View Post
    just started my bottle of intraXcell! I have a ticket on the BA train! lol!

    Nice articles, guys.

    Awesome, please let us know if you have any questions




    Thanks for the kind words about the articles. We get so many questions of people asking us if beta-alanine replaces creatine, I felt the need to defend creatine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N;
    That's the whole point, they are NOT inadequate..lol We get TONS of histidine like we do with all the other amino acids. Even the sedentary person in this country over consumes protein(histidine) You are somehow missing this point I keep trying to make.



    If you read the beta-alanine research, you would not be stating what you are, it's as simple as that.
    You may be an expert in the pharmacology of beta-alanine, but believe me, Sir, I have read "the beta-alanine" research.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N;
    And again. of course histidine is nessesary for CARN synthesis, but we already get MORE then enough in our diets.
    You mentioned yourself in an earlier contribution that certain groups of the population (vegans and such like) may not be getting enough histidine. This justifies my irritation regarding the theoretical assumption that we all get more than enough histidine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N;
    Lastly the direct ingestion of carnosine should NOT be worthy of consideration based of the fact we know it is simply broken down into beta-alanine and histidine.
    The beta-alanine (plus histidine) route was adopted in the first place because it is the most effective (cost-effective) way to boost carnosine levels. If carnosine were not that expensive, it would be the option of choice!
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    You may be an expert in the pharmacology of beta-alanine, but believe me, Sir, I have read "the beta-alanine" research.
    Great, then you will know unless a histidine deficiency is present(extremely rare) it's a complete waste to supplement with extra histidine!

    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    You mentioned yourself in an earlier contribution that certain groups of the population (vegans and such like) may not be getting enough histidine. This justifies my irritation regarding the theoretical assumption that we all get more than enough histidine.
    Very true, but read my entire statement. I still don't suggest taking extra histidine, but rather to bump up their protein intake.

    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    The beta-alanine (plus histidine) route was adopted in the first place because it is the most effective (cost-effective) way to boost carnosine levels. If carnosine were not that expensive, it would be the option of choice!
    How come? Why not just make sure you have a normal amount of protein in your diet and just take beta-alanine?

    Anyway, do as you please, but atleast be aware of what I said
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N;
    Great, then you will know unless a histidine deficiency is present(extremely rare) it's a complete waste to supplement with extra histidine!
    "Extremely rare" is an extremely strong statement!

    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N;
    Anyway, do as you please, but at least be aware of what I said.
    So far, I have not seen any compellingly new set of insights that would warrant a radical change of path on my side.

    It has been a rather entertaining discussion so far. I beg to take my leave now, so we do not spend the rest of the thread repeating previous points.

    Thank you, Sir!
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    man it's like a battle going on here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cellardude;
    man it's like a battle going on here
    No chance, Cellar! I don't do battles...
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