Universal Shock Therapy
- 09-24-2007, 01:12 PM
Universal Shock Therapy
Thinking about gettin some sincework very well for me. Curious though it has Gree Tea Extract in it, which i assume is their caffeine additive. Anyone know how much though? Im tryin to drop caffeine and the only other i could think of was Ragnarok...Maybe. I may buy stuff to mix myself but i am to lazy. If it comes down to it i will just buy a combo of stuff to use.
- 09-24-2007, 01:17 PM
I do not know how muchis in it. It is part of the 20g proprietary formula mix. I have used it and enjoyed it. Not too much of a caffeine buzz.
09-24-2007, 02:05 PM
I've tried my friend's WTF Pumped last weekend, it tastes pretty good except the flavor tastes like lemonade vomit.
I'm thinking about Shock Therapy or Ragnarok after I am done with MHP's Trac NO Extreme. It is OK, but I dunno I think I'm gonna try something else next. Let me know those products both look good.
09-24-2007, 02:38 PM
09-24-2007, 02:41 PM
I don't mind stims in a pre-workout, but off the top of my head only Endorush and WTF Pumped I was ok with the stims. MHP's TRAC NO Extreme is stim free and decent as well.
NO-XPLODE, SuperPump250 were an overkill with stims. They just had way too much, and it caused me to crash afterwards.
09-24-2007, 02:44 PM
09-24-2007, 02:45 PM
09-24-2007, 02:46 PM
09-24-2007, 02:49 PM
So SMASH is pretty good then ? I'm just leery about stim pre-workouts cuz they seem to be a hit or miss for me.
WTF Pump'd has stims and fortunately it is under control which I really like.
09-24-2007, 02:49 PM
09-24-2007, 02:55 PM
I may just go with out a PreWO this time around and save the cash. Focus on nutrition cause im gettin the AX stuff and some Poseidon. Also goin to try DiCreatine Malate or SWOLE, Celldude says its pretty good stuff.
09-24-2007, 03:02 PM
09-24-2007, 03:07 PM
09-24-2007, 03:42 PM
i've used shock and no-xplode. shock is nice bro. work your way up to 1.5-2 scoops preworkout and its some crazy energy. the price per serving is pretty ridiculous too
09-24-2007, 03:44 PM
09-24-2007, 04:06 PM
09-24-2007, 04:33 PM
NO Shotgun used a shotgun approach on their product. Everything is 'ethyl ester'.....and somehow that is supposed to induce hyperplasia....huh....
09-24-2007, 05:07 PM
09-24-2007, 05:32 PM
09-24-2007, 06:06 PM
09-24-2007, 06:38 PM
HorsePower Blend 5800mg †:
Beta-Alanine, Glycerol Monostearate, Medium Chain Triglycerides, Citrulline Ethyl Ester Malate, L-Norvaline, Guanidinopropionic Acid, Gynostemma Pentaphyllum, Ornithine Alpha Ketoglutarate, Arginine Ketoisocaproate, R-Alpha Lipoic Acid, Rutaecarpine, And Glycocyamine.
No, this isn’t the tagline for a new type of creatine, it means that there’s a semi-popular creatine-like product on the market that may actually be harmful to your health. What’s worse is that there are now several copycat products on the market as well! As if that wasn’t bad enough, one of the potentially dangerous compounds (oh yes, there’s more than one!) that this product contains is ergolytic; i.e. something that decreases athletic performance.
This potentially dangerous ergolytic chemical is Guanidinopropionic Acid (GPA), which binds the creatine transporter and plugs it up so creatine can’t be transported into various tissues (similar to the concept of tamoxifen blocking the estrogen receptor, not allowing estrogen to bind). This is a problem, because most of our tissues can’t make creatine so it has to be transported in, and blocked transporters means a reduction in cellular creatine levels.
Bear in mind that creatine isn’t just a supplement, it’s a naturally occurring substance in our bodies that we need to survive! You know the impact of having 20% more creatine, now imagine having 80% less creatine! GPA induced creatine depletion can not only reduce muscle strength after a mere seven days of consumption (Gagnon et al., 2002), but has also been shown to convert fast-twitch muscle to slow-twitch (Ren et al., 1995)! So this substance might make you weaker and slower!
While these consequences should be enough to make you avoid supplements containing this chemical, there’s also a potentially dangerous side to consider: both our hearts and our brains have creatine transporters!!! Any time you start to mess around with our two most vital organs, it can’t be good. Fortunately, the brain seems to temporarily compensate for decreases in energy supply caused by GPA (O'Gorman et al., 1996), but do we really want our bodies to have to adapt to reduced energy levels? Of course not!
We also don’t want our hearts to be affected by GPA supplementation, but they are! In fact, 3 different studies showed that creatine levels in the heart dropped by 80-87% with GPA consumption in rats (Boehm et al., 2003, Neubauer et al., 1999; Horn et al., 2001). Now you can see why it’s nearly impossible to perform human studies using this substance! Clearly, you have to wonder what the manufacturers were thinking when they approved production of this supplement.
"But wait, there’s MORE! Order now and you’ll get another potentially dangerous ingredient for free!" One particular supplement ("SWOLE") combines GPA with another potentially dangerous substance known as Glycocyamine (G-amine). Sadly, G-amine (also known as guanidinoacetate) has been picked up by a few different supplement companies who obviously don’t do any research on what they’re getting people to ingest.
The reason G-amine is so popular (from a marketing standpoint, not from the consumers’) is because it is the precursor to creatine. Just like Testosterone can come from andro, creatine comes from G-amine. The theory is that you jack up G-amine levels and you get a whole bunch more creatine. The really asinine part is that, you can just directly take creatine!
We can’t take Testosterone due to legal reasons, so we have to find other ways to increase its levels—enter prohormones (among other effective things). But for our purposes, there’s no reason to worry about creatine precursors because we can just take the substance directly. The whole precursor concept is really hot when it comes to marketing to laymen, which is where this supplement takes off.
Unfortunately, consuming this chemical seems to have the undesirable effect of elevating blood levels of a substance called homocysteine, which is a very strong risk factor for cardiovascular disease (Stead et al., 2001). Cardiovascular disease is easily the number one killer in the Western World, and the last thing we need to do is increase our risk for it. Conversely, taking creatine decreases homocysteine levels, raising even more therapeutic possibilities for this supplement. As if to spit on your grave, if you’re supplementing with creatine, G-amine may also decrease its uptake by muscles (Zugno et al., 2003).
Sadly, the FDA has already spoken to the company that produces this "combo of harm," because another of its supplements caused liver damage… you’d think that they would have learned. Unfortunately, these substances aren’t just isolated to a single product—they’re popping up in all kinds of different supplements (including some protein powders)! It’s my opinion that products containing either of these substances should be pulled off the market and the formulas changed, but the FDA can’t do anything until harm has already been done. This means that it’s up to us to spread the word about these substances. Most importantly, before you supplement with something, do your research and KNOW WHAT YOU’RE CONSUMING!
— Research suggests that once fully loaded, only minimal amounts of creatine are needed to maintain the muscle’s loaded state.
— Research suggests that creatine usually needs to be taken only after workouts (see Caveat).
— Reducing creatine intake may serve to prevent muscle creatine transporter downregulation.
— More active and muscular individuals may need to consume greater quantities to maintain intramuscular creatine levels.
— Adding a little sodium to your creatine containing drink may enhance its uptake.
— Guanidinopropionic Acid (GPA) and Glycocyamine (G-amine) are potentially dangerous compounds appearing in several supplement products—GET THE WORD OUT.
— Use these guidelines to tailor your optimum creatine intake protocol, and be wary of accepting any info as dogma.
This is also why I stopped taking NO Shotgun
09-24-2007, 10:26 PM
Shock Therapy is some good stuff, probably my fav with it being so dam cheap for 50 servings, I never had to use more than a heaping scoop. The only thing I dont like is the proprietary ingredient profile, but theres like 20 grams per scoop so it helps make me believe there is plenty of whats advertised. I really like the anti-ox blend.
09-25-2007, 01:49 AM
It hasn't killed anyone yet. I'm more worried about all the aspartame/sucralose/etc we ingest in every pre-workout drink, protein shake, chewing gum, etc. Tons of that isht.
09-25-2007, 09:16 AM
The problem with glycocyamine is the interaction with the methyl groups in the liver. Most companies include betanine at a 5:1 ratio so there is no 'robbing' of the methyl groups from the liver and the methyl donor comes from the betanine.
I emailed BSN about this and that is what they told me. I won't be using stuff with Glycocyamine though.
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