Best muscle-hardening supplement?

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  1. Best muscle-hardening supplement?


    I seem to have an issue (maybe due to how I lift, but maybe genetics) with my arms specifically not looking hard, except when holding a heavy weight or lifting a heavy weight. I am not sure what this is due to, but it's annoying. My muscles look hard and full as hell when I, for example, lift the 90 lb dumbbells off of the rack and then sling them up to shoulder-height to begin military presses, but when I am not holding the DBs, my arms look "flat."

    I also follow a pretty low-carb diet, never getting near 250 grams a day. I'm at most around 150, and more normally around 100 grams, sometimes being as low as 30.

    What would people recommend (supplement, dietary, or training advice) to get more of a "hard" and "strained" look to the muscles, while they are at rest?


  2. muscle harding feeling has to do with the your blood flow I believe. I think its the low carb diet that is causing the flat feeling. I remember when I was on anabolic pump I had a nice muscle harding effect all over. Maybe you should try that.
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  3. How many carbs are we talking?

    I am talking about the look of muscle-tension. I only get it when I have weight in my hands, or when I was using Epistane. It also occurs for about an hour after a dose of IGF-2, but the hardness seems to fade. I'm thinking it has more to do with low carbs than it does training parameters or supplementation, or even genetics.

    I'm still not sure though and I'm kinda scared to bump carbs too high for the sake of an aesthetic effect.

  4. I agree. More carbs will help fill out your muscles. Whenever I ran a low carb, moderate/high fat, and high protein diet, I felt/looked flat, felt weaker, had less energy, and was not nearly as vascular.

    As far as hardening supps go...I'm not exactly sure. I think almost any anti-e and/or test booster or something containing divanil. I've also heard ecdy products will harden you up...but I haven't tried any yet. Hopefully someone else can be more helpful here...

    Honestly, it looks like your bodyfat is already pretty low so normally I would've said that could be it, but maybe your arms are just not big enough to stretch the skin like you're looking for. I've got the same problem tho, so don't feel too bad!

  5. Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    How many carbs are we talking?

    I am talking about the look of muscle-tension. I only get it when I have weight in my hands, or when I was using Epistane. It also occurs for about an hour after a dose of IGF-2, but the hardness seems to fade. I'm thinking it has more to do with low carbs than it does training parameters or supplementation, or even genetics.

    I'm still not sure though and I'm kinda scared to bump carbs too high for the sake of an aesthetic effect.
    I think so too. I doubt it has much to do with your training or supplements. I think it is the fact that your low on carbs. you can bump up the carbs and add in anabolic pump. My carb intake was extremely high while on anabolic pump. In fact i took 100g of carbs post workout. many users of anabolic pump have reported swelling of muscles, harding and some fat lost. I myself didnt experience fat lost but I didnt get fatter.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    How many carbs are we talking?

    I am talking about the look of muscle-tension. I only get it when I have weight in my hands, or when I was using Epistane. It also occurs for about an hour after a dose of IGF-2, but the hardness seems to fade. I'm thinking it has more to do with low carbs than it does training parameters or supplementation, or even genetics.

    I'm still not sure though and I'm kinda scared to bump carbs too high for the sake of an aesthetic effect.
    Well there you go. You liked when you were using Epistane, didn't you? In that case, get an anti-e. Try transdermal formestane(5g of formestane + 1 bottle of penetrate). You will start to harden up and see some nice vascularity. Once you're done, you will lose some of that look but since I used it I can still get the veins across my shoulders and chest to pop.

    But also look into playing around with your carb intake.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by JJC View Post
    I agree. More carbs will help fill out your muscles. Whenever I ran a low carb, moderate/high fat, and high protein diet, I felt/looked flat, felt weaker, had less energy, and was not nearly as vascular.

    As far as hardening supps go...I'm not exactly sure. I think almost any anti-e and/or test booster or something containing divanil. I've also heard ecdy products will harden you up...but I haven't tried any yet. Hopefully someone else can be more helpful here...

    Honestly, it looks like your bodyfat is already pretty low so normally I would've said that could be it, but maybe your arms are just not big enough to stretch the skin like you're looking for. I've got the same problem tho, so don't feel too bad!


    stretching skin wise anabolic pump gave me that streching skin wise look. It improved my arms in overall hardness especially PWO with the 100 grams of carbs. if your looking for more of a skin streching look anabolic pump is what you looking for. Overall hardness, insane pumps, skin strectching actually. It's quite amazing. maybe others might be able to chime in with their experiences with Anabolic pump. I recieved a mega sample from a friend (60 pills) and I noticed some nice gains and hardness from it. but yeah I do believe your carb intake is whats causing that flat muscle look.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Cellardude View Post
    I think so too. I doubt it has much to do with your training or supplements. I think it is the fact that your low on carbs. you can bump up the carbs and add in anabolic pump. My carb intake was extremely high while on anabolic pump. In fact i took 100g of carbs post workout. many users of anabolic pump have reported swelling of muscles, harding and some fat lost. I myself didnt experience fat lost but I didnt get fatter.
    I didn't get much out of Anabolic Pump nor P-Slin (although I think P-Slin > AP for me). But P-Slin is another option if you wanted to try something like AP. So is ALA.

    Those supps are kind of frightening to me though, because I feel that I am a little carb sensitive. Taking in 60-100g carbs in one sitting always made me feel a little uneasy...you might feel the same way too. But any of those supps will help keep the spike in blood sugar low.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by JJC View Post
    I didn't get much out of Anabolic Pump nor P-Slin (although I think P-Slin > AP for me). But P-Slin is another option if you wanted to try something like AP. So is ALA.

    Those supps are kind of frightening to me though, because I feel that I am a little carb sensitive. Taking in 60-100g carbs in one sitting always made me feel a little uneasy...you might feel the same way too. But any of those supps will help keep the spike in blood sugar low.
    I did just buy P-Slin, but I don't think I'll go beyond that and get AP, because I just can't do that kind of carb intake at 3 meals a day, plus P-Slin.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Cellardude View Post
    muscle harding feeling has to do with the your blood flow I believe. I think its the low carb diet that is causing the flat feeling. I remember when I was on anabolic pump I had a nice muscle harding effect all over. Maybe you should try that.


    carb depletion will flatten you out.


    Some good supps for increasing hardness would be:
    Ecdysterones
    Anabolic Pump
    HyperdrolX2

    if funds permit, you can stack all 3 of them together for a crazy sick harness/recomp stack

  11. Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    I did just buy P-Slin, but I don't think I'll go beyond that and get AP, because I just can't do that kind of carb intake at 3 meals a day, plus P-Slin.
    Yeah I hear ya. It was always hard to remember to take the stupid pill three times a day and before carb containing meals. It was just too much carbs, too many times per day.

    P-Slin was better, IMO...althought I don't think I'd buy it again. Give it a shot though. It will help give you some peace of mind when you bump of your carb count before workouts. Plus if you time it right, you will be able to glean some clean, real, non-stim energy from it. Maybe look into ALA too, that should help with the increased carb intake as well.

    But like I mentioned before, you liked Epistane which has SERM-like/anti-estrogen properties. So an anti-e could help too. You've got some options to look into now though.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Some good supps for increasing hardness would be:
    Ecdysterones
    At high enough dosage (>1.5 grams a day of active) I agree.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  13. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post


    carb depletion will flatten you out.


    Some good supps for increasing hardness would be:
    Ecdysterones
    Anabolic Pump
    HyperdrolX2

    if funds permit, you can stack all 3 of them together for a crazy sick harness/recomp stack


    I couldnt have said it better myself.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Cellardude View Post


    I couldnt have said it better myself.
    Hey! I said most of those too! haha

  15. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    At high enough dosage (>1.5 grams a day of active) I agree.
    I agree as well, despite popular flamings on my usage of Ecdy products.

  16. I may look into running Hyperdrol at some point. Is it best run for 4 or 8 weeks?

  17. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    that high? I've had good results at much lower dosages (~500mg actives)
    Eh... I havent... just over a gram, (I'm thinking it was about 1200mgs actually) is where I noticed effects... (my disclaimer to all: no, I wasn't feeling like a jacked russian on special russian roids...).... I did however get fair strength gains and great hardness/appearance.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by RisingAgainst View Post
    Eh... I havent... just over a gram, (I'm thinking it was about 1200mgs actually) is where I noticed effects... (my disclaimer to all: no, I wasn't feeling like a jacked russian on special russian roids...).... I did however get fair strength gains and great hardness/appearance.
    yeah, there's a bit too much hype on the stuff. It's a good ergogenic aid, and it really helps with recovery (IMHO). It will not be enough to qualify you for Mr. O 2008, though.........maybe '09......if you're lucky.

  19. I'm taking Furazadrol right now and im getting some great muscle hardening and vascularity. Not sure if your looking for a pro hormone to take, but fura would be a good choice if you were.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    I seem to have an issue (maybe due to how I lift, but maybe genetics) with my arms specifically not looking hard, except when holding a heavy weight or lifting a heavy weight. I am not sure what this is due to, but it's annoying. My muscles look hard and full as hell when I, for example, lift the 90 lb dumbbells off of the rack and then sling them up to shoulder-height to begin military presses, but when I am not holding the DBs, my arms look "flat."

    I also follow a pretty low-carb diet, never getting near 250 grams a day. I'm at most around 150, and more normally around 100 grams, sometimes being as low as 30.

    What would people recommend (supplement, dietary, or training advice) to get more of a "hard" and "strained" look to the muscles, while they are at rest?
    Yeah, Its def. the low carb diet. Throughout the week I have 3 moderate carb days (100-150g), three low carb days (~50g), then a high carb day(~500g). During the first six days, I get progressively flatter then blow up on the high carb day. The idea is when you deplete your body of glycogen, fat goes with it. But in order not to lose any mass I have to bring everything back up on the high carb day, then start the cycle again. I usually do this for most of the year, unless I'm on cycle where I need a surplus of complex carbs.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    that high? I've had good results at much lower dosages (~500mg actives)
    I think you probably weigh 1/3 of what I do.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  22. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    I think you probably weigh 1/3 of what I do.
    you weigh 540lbs?!

    Lol, dosages would more likely function asymptotically rather than linearly. (Now if we only know the limit, we'd be cooking with bug juice). Either that, or I'm gonna have to yell at Crader for not kicking your ass in gear.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    you weigh 540lbs?!
    And he's not even fat!

  24. Anyway, so I guess in this case the best muscle hardening supplement is FOOD. haha, there we go again.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    you weigh 540lbs?!

    Lol, dosages would more likely function asymptotically rather than linearly. (Now if we only know the limit, we'd be cooking with bug juice). Either that, or I'm gonna have to yell at Crader for not kicking your ass in gear.
    I wonder if Ecdy can be cyclodextrined, since the half-life is so miniscule. This would lend itself perfectly to multiple dosages throughout the day.

    I remember when the 1-t Cyclo came out, I added a small bit of water and crystal light and made these lozenges that I would suck on every hour. Made some excellent gains, and it was simple to dose 5-10 times a day.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  26. Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    Anyway, so I guess in this case the best muscle hardening supplement is FOOD. haha, there we go again.
    well put

  27. Aspire36

  28. Quote Originally Posted by xjsynx View Post
    Aspire36
    Not sure if that's the muscle he's looking to harden...

  29. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    I wonder if Ecdy can be cyclodextrined, since the half-life is so miniscule. This would lend itself perfectly to multiple dosages throughout the day.

    I remember when the 1-t Cyclo came out, I added a small bit of water and crystal light and made these lozenges that I would suck on every hour. Made some excellent gains, and it was simple to dose 5-10 times a day.

    This revamps an old idea I once had. Check your PM box.
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