Building blocks of testosterone...

[Dr. Lats]

DHEA and pregnenolone. Is it harmful or supressive for someone to take these compounds? Any one have experience?

What is the logic behind putting these into one's supplement?

I've been looking into a company's supp, and these two are in it, along side some anti-estrogens..

 

[matthew76]

What is the product that you are refering to?

 

[jjohn]

I know Reset-ad has preg, made to help restore adrenals. I know preg is also a precursor of a lot of hormones.

Dhea won't really give you huge test levels either, ai's are quite effective though.

 

[Dr. Lats]

Dermacrine

Also, one of Chuck Diesel's products had preg and dhea in it, I believe it was called Raw Test.

I just saw that DHEA article that was posted too...doesn't seem to good when read, but the Primordial Performance guy refuted it.

 

[Eric Potratz]

Hello

Dr. Lats,

DHEA and Preg can eventually suppress T production just like any other pro-hormone/steroid product... so we say to limit the usage time to 4 weeks. Dermacine would stack well with just about any other pro-hormone product on the market too. Only difference is that Dermacrine only has naturally occurring hormones so you probably would notice less sides compared to running the exotic drol-tren-winny-halo type pro-hormone supps.

Id say the 3 main benefits with Dermacrine are strength, fat-loss, and immune system function.

-Pp

 

[djbombsquad]

What is AI again?

 

[luke1984]

What is AI again?

Aromatase Inhibitor, it keeps testosterone form aromatising into estrogen.

 

[strategicmove]

Pregnenolone steriod hormone and is a precursor to other naturally occurring hormones in the body, including dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, and cortisol. Synthesized directly from cholesterol, pregnenolone is responsible for countless functions in our bodies. Benefits of pregnenolone supplementation may include enhancement of memory and cognitive function, fighting fatigue and stress, alleviating symptoms of arthritis, reduction of excess cholesterol, and fighting depression, amongst others. Pregnenolone is said to be the most potent memory enhancer known to science.

Supplemental pregnenolone is molecularly identical to natural pregnenolone. The required raw material for rhe production of supplemental pregnenolone comes from wild yams (Dioscorea villosa) grown in Mexico and other tropical regions.

DHEA appears to have been well discussed in other threads.

 

[strategicmove]

Pregnenolone steriod hormone and is a precursor to other naturally occurring hormones in the body, including dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, and cortisol. Synthesized directly from cholesterol, pregnenolone is responsible for countless functions in our bodies. Benefits of pregnenolone supplementation may include enhancement of memory and cognitive function, fighting fatigue and stress, alleviating symptoms of arthritis, reduction of excess cholesterol, and fighting depression, amongst others. Pregnenolone is said to be the most potent memory enhancer known to science.

Supplemental pregnenolone is molecularly identical to natural pregnenolone. The required raw material for rhe production of supplemental pregnenolone comes from wild yams (Dioscorea villosa) grown in Mexico and other tropical regions.

DHEA appears to have been well discussed in other threads.

 

[jasonschaffin]

: Mol Cell Endocrinol. 2003 May 30;203(1-2):13-23. Links
Evidence that dehydroepiandrosterone, DHEA, directly inhibits GnRH gene expression in GT1-7 hypothalamic neurons.Cui H, Lin SY, Belsham DD.
Department of Physiology, Toronto General Hospital Research Institute, University Health Network, University of Toronto, Medical Sciences Building 3247A, 1 King's College Circle, Toronto, ON, Canada M5S 1A8.

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) has been reported to have diverse effects on overall physiology, although its mechanism of action and specific receptor are not yet known. We have used the immortalized, clonal GT1-7 hypothalamic neurons to study DHEA effects on gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) gene expression. DHEA (10(-4) M) downregulates GnRH transcription by 39, 70 and 83% at 24, 36, and 48 h, respectively, while DHEA-sulphate had no effect. Hydroxyflutamide a specific androgen receptor (AR) antagonist, and cyproterone acetate or trilostane, both inhibitors of 3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase/delta 4,5 isomerase, the rate-limiting enzyme for the conversion of DHEA to sex steroids, did not affect the ability of DHEA to downregulate GnRH gene expression. We found that GT1-7 cells did not express aromatase, thereby precluding conversion to estrogen. Analysis of [(14)C] DHEA metabolism by thin layer chromatography indicates that the main metabolites produced are 7 alpha- and 7 beta-hydroxy DHEA, and 7-oxo DHEA, although these steroids were not able to repress GnRH gene expression alone. Cell viability studies indicated that the transcriptional repression observed is not due to GT1-7 cell death. Interestingly, SV40 T-antigen mRNA levels, under the control of 2.3 kb of the rat GnRH gene 5' regulatory region, are also repressed by DHEA. Our studies indicate that DHEA has direct effects on GnRH transcription that appear to be unique from those observed after conversion to other steroidogenic compounds.

PMID: 12782399 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Looks like it would suppress gnrh.

 

[Travis]

Dr. Lats,

DHEA and Preg can eventually suppress T production just like any other pro-hormone/steroid product... so we say to limit the usage time to 4 weeks. Dermacine would stack well with just about any other pro-hormone product on the market too. Only difference is that Dermacrine only has naturally occurring hormones so you probably would notice less sides compared to running the exotic drol-tren-winny-halo type pro-hormone supps.

Id say the 3 main benefits with Dermacrine are strength, fat-loss, and immune system function.

-Pp

I am currently stacking it with Epidrol and I would have to say the stregth gains are pretty nice. Goal was a bulk so I cant really say fat loss was noticable, but I have been stuffing my face! It also seems to level me out "emotionally", kinda hard to describe but thats what I feel.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

DHEA and pregnenolone. Is it harmful or supressive for someone to take these compounds? Any one have experience?

What is the logic behind putting these into one's supplement?

I've been looking into a company's supp, and these two are in it, along side some anti-estrogens..

these neither convert much into testosterone nor do they suppress

they have some brain benefits

supplement companies putting these in new hormonal products is sort of like ford bringing back the Model T for 2008. But i guess the gov't put people in that position

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I know Reset-ad has preg, made to help restore adrenals. I know preg is also a precursor of a lot of hormones..

what is the logic behind pregnenolone restoring the adrenals? It is completely non-sensical

its like saying you are giving someone androstenedione to restore the testes

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Pregnenolone steriod hormone and is a precursor to other naturally occurring hormones in the body, including dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, and cortisol. Synthesized directly from cholesterol, pregnenolone is responsible for countless functions in our bodies. Benefits of pregnenolone supplementation may include enhancement of memory and cognitive function, fighting fatigue and stress, alleviating symptoms of arthritis, reduction of excess cholesterol, and fighting depression, amongst others. Pregnenolone is said to be the most potent memory enhancer known to science.
.

step back a second. yes, pregnenolone is a precursor to every hormonal steroid in the body. that is because it is second along the steroidogenic pathway after cholesterol, so it is like cain and abel to adam and eve (testosterone being jesus...whatever)

but it takes alot of processing by the body to turn pregenenolone into testosterone or cortisol etc. Like its precursor cholesterol, you just can't eat a bunch and think that the levels of its downstream hormones are going to go up.

Just like you cannot chop down a tree and think a house is automatically gonna pop up. alot of other highly regulated pathways have to be activated for pregenenolone to make it to one of the powerful and hormones.

so its use as a precursor is pretty baseless. However its use as a neurosteroid (like you said) is interersting. It may work directly on brain cells or be converted to something else at the target brain site

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Looks like it would suppress gnrh.

very interesting study. goes to show that dhea has alot of direct effects in the brain and does not need to be converted to anything

whether you can go so far to say that this will give dhea a degree of HPTA suppressibility above and beyond its role as an androgen precursor i dunno

 

[thesinner]

what is the logic behind pregnenolone restoring the adrenals? It is completely non-sensical

its like saying you are giving someone androstenedione to restore the testes

Is it going to suppress the adrenals?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Is it going to suppress the adrenals?

pregenolone plays the exact same role in the testes as it does in the adrenals. its a early intermediate in the steroidogenic pathway

not much of it gets released into the blood however. most that is manufactured in the body happens in the glands themselves as part of steroidogenesis. so it does not stick around

its physiological activity in the body is not significant enough to shut down either the testes or the adrenals at normal concentrations

 

[Eric Potratz]

DHEA and pregnenolone. Is it harmful or supressive for someone to take these compounds? Any one have experience?

What is the logic behind putting these into one's supplement?

I've been looking into a company's supp, and these two are in it, along side some anti-estrogens..

The logic of putting pregnenolone into our topical Dermacrine was not only for the neuro-steroid benefits but to help balance out the dose of DHEA. The metabolite progesterone (from pregnenolone) will help reduce the amount of 5a-reduced metabolites from the DHEA, thus helping to limit hair loss.

-Pp

 

[matthew76]

I used Dermacrine in my last post cycle therapy and I was truly impressed with the product

 

[Eric Potratz]

I used Dermacrine in my last post cycle therapy and I was truly impressed with the product

Did you use the Sustain or the Original w/ DHEA & Preg?

-Pp

 

[matthew76]

Original...

 

[thesinner]

pregenolone plays the exact same role in the testes as it does in the adrenals. its a early intermediate in the steroidogenic pathway

not much of it gets released into the blood however. most that is manufactured in the body happens in the glands themselves as part of steroidogenesis. so it does not stick around

its physiological activity in the body is not significant enough to shut down either the testes or the adrenals at normal concentrations

Well, the pregnelone product mentioned was not designed for adrenal health, per se. So perhaps, there are some neuro benefits to it.

I know I was scratching my head when I first saw it had pregnelone in it, as well. But I try to keep an open mind, and despite the tone of your posts, I like to think you try to stay open-minded as well. MOD EDIT: We don't need anymore of this. We are sick and tired of dealing with it.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

The logic of putting pregnenolone into our topical Dermacrine was not only for the neuro-steroid benefits but to help balance out the dose of DHEA. The metabolite progesterone (from pregnenolone) will help reduce the amount of 5a-reduced metabolites from the DHEA, thus helping to limit hair loss.

-Pp

yikes

progesterone precursor and an estrogen agonist in one product

well its not gonna be that big an issue cuz little of that preg is gonna become progesterone. that 5,4-isomerase enzyme is pretty controlled