powerfull vs Bulk 1-carboxy-2-amino-3-pyrobenzo

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Agree completely. The entire discussion was sparked off by Patrick Arnold's statement that L-Dopa had no anabolic properties, direct or indirect, and that plant sterols were basically useless in a general sense.
    Most of the subsequent discussion has centered on subjective interpretations of what he actually might have wanted to say. I am sure he would find time to clarify his thoughts here. And do that better than anyone else. That would help cut a lot of speculation. And advance our objective knowledge a tad.

    i don't want to completely trash L-dopa, it has the potential to benefit certain people for a short time at least.

    but its really pretty tame stuff


  2. Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    let PA back his own statements, i doubt he needs your help.

    HGH and testosterone do not build muscle? okay, well it doesnt but it sure does help and play a big part in whether muscle gets built and how much.....so if this product does increase GH production over baseline then that would mean it would help to build muscle among other benefiets, it wouldnt do it directly but indirectly but why would it matter if its overall outcome is aided muscle benefiets?

    it does not raise GH or testosterone high enough or for a long enough time to make any discernable difference in your physique

    this is the conclusion i have come to based on my experience and knowledge. And I came to this conclusion long before USP labs ever existed.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    great marketing can go a long way to generate a strong placebo response. i remember reading about this stuff called hot stuff back in 89-90. it was advertised in more obscure bodybuilding publications first and then got more mainstream over time. it swore to be a steroid equivalent and had everything but the kitchen sink in there. i sent away for it and got it in the mail and opened it up and it was like a unique treasure with its odd orange looking label. i tasted its strange banana flavor and thought to myself that i was drinking a truly unique concoction. i could swear i felt the testosterone running through my veins and i worked out harder and ate better then i could in a long time. i made great progress and swore up and down that hot stuff was amazing stuff

    later i found out it was complete BS

    the same thing happened to me about a year or two later with the first metrx, but to a lesser extent
    Hot Stuff

    I use to take that as well. Wasn't a good idea before squats though

  4. Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    okay i dont understand. if something increases test and or gh that doesnt equate to more help with muscle building? why supplement either then? please explain im confused by what youre saying.

    lots of things raise gh. amino acids, blood pressure medicine, fasting etc. etc.

    these things don't equate into any muscle growth however.

    as far as testosterone goes i did a literature search on l-dopa and testosterone levels and really could not find any specific data at all. I suppose the possibility exists that it could raise it in a very modest fashion like less than 50% and even that will probably only be transient. you are not gonna notice anything really from that

  5. Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    why dont you test it PA?
    i really hope that i don't have to get to that point. an answer would be so much more convenient

    and even if i do test it, and come to the conclusion that its the same do you think that is going to end this debate at all?

    no, it will only make the debate more intense and aggravating
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    i really hope that i don't have to get to that point. an answer would be so much more convenient

    and even if i do test it, and come to the conclusion that its the same do you think that is going to end this debate at all?

    no, it will only make the debate more intense and aggravating
    an answer would be nice.

    if it is the same maybe people the people that know this wont buy it thinking its something else. I have three bottles i bought for like $10 each so im gonna use it regardless. I did notice a libido boost but that could just be dopamine increase??..

  7. Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    an answer would be nice.

    if it is the same maybe people the people that know this wont buy it thinking its something else. I have three bottles i bought for like $10 each so im gonna use it regardless. I did notice a libido boost but that could just be dopamine increase??..

    libido increase is a listed side effect of l-dopa

    yeah it has something to do with dopamine

    cabergoline is a much safer dopaminergic agent that purportedly can raise testosterone and increase libido. you can get that through research chem houses. but once again, don't expect any noticeable anabolic effects

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    libido increase is a listed side effect of l-dopa

    yeah it has something to do with dopamine

    cabergoline is a much safer dopaminergic agent that purportedly can raise testosterone and increase libido. you can get that through research chem houses. but once again, don't expect any noticeable anabolic effects

    I raised the same issue awhile back comparing bromocriptine vs's powerfull.......anyhow it got shot down.

  9. PA-


    Change your avatar to the the picture (above) of where you look doped up w/ the hairnet.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by ReaperX View Post
    PA-


    Change your avatar to the the picture (above) of where you look doped up w/ the hairnet.

    must you torture me
  11. Guest
    Guest's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    i really hope that i don't have to get to that point. an answer would be so much more convenient

    and even if i do test it, and come to the conclusion that its the same do you think that is going to end this debate at all?

    no, it will only make the debate more intense and aggravating
    I'm debating to release the test on your 50% cissus and with your permission, I will.

    I will try to be civil but PA makes if real hard.

    1-carboxy is our name for our extraction of L-dopa that contains natural decarboxlase inhibitors. Pat are you the only one with access to a lab and chemists? We are working directly with Universities and Biotech firms in India lead by men with Doctorates. It's cool that you sport a BA in chemistry and have alot of on the job experience. But Please stop feeding your ego as the smartest man in the indusrty it's becoming repulsive.

    I'm begining to questions your High and mighty approach to degrading other companies products as worthless.

    ErgoPharm
    "It doesn't work unless Ergo Makes it"

  12. Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs View Post
    I'm debating to release the test on your 50% cissus and with your permission, I will.

    I will try to be civil but PA makes if real hard.

    1-carboxy is our name for our extraction of L-dopa that contains natural decarboxlase inhibitors. Pat are you the only one with access to a lab and chemists? We are working directly with Universities and Biotech firms in India lead by men with Doctorates. It's cool that you sport a BA in chemistry and have alot of on the job experience. But Please stop feeding your ego as the smartest man in the indusrty it's becoming repulsive.

    I'm begining to questions your High and mighty approach to degrading other companies products as worthless.

    ErgoPharm
    "It doesn't work unless Ergo Makes it"
    nice response

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    sounds like a real ass backwards way to analyze a product. but then again you don't have a lab like i do

    Well, yes Pat, if I had a lab I'm sure I could come up with some more accurate testing methods than this...****!

    Edit: Wow, you can't say dic*? What is this, ****ing church?

    In my kitchen lab, I have access to a glucometer, and...a toaster. I'm already reasonably certain that neither of these compounds can make toast, so I'm going to go with the glucose testing.

    As for USP's comment...interesting. It certainly feels different than L-Dopa + a Decarboxylase inhibitor, which I've used many times.

    And I agree with Patrick on this one, I'd be surprised if L-Dopa + a Decarboxylase inhibitor did much for building muscle. I haven't noticed anything in the past from that combo. Transient spikes in GH/Test certainly don't automatically equate to more muscle/less fat...there's so much more to it than that.

    But, I've never considered taking it for that purpose. I use it for the central dopamine effects on motivation/drive/focus/libido, etc. I bought the 1-Carboxy for the above purposes + enhanced sleep efficiency, which it seems to be doing a great job of. And, at $18 for 100g, its not exactly breaking the bank.

    It seems to me like this product might be mis-marketed...but I'm sure there's more money to be made in selling to people with hopes of building muscle and losing body fat than there is selling the idea of increased motivation and sleep efficiency.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs View Post
    I'm debating to release the test on your 50% cissus and with your permission, I will.

    I will try to be civil but PA makes if real hard.

    1-carboxy is our name for our extraction of L-dopa that contains natural decarboxlase inhibitors. Pat are you the only one with access to a lab and chemists? We are working directly with Universities and Biotech firms in India lead by men with Doctorates. It's cool that you sport a BA in chemistry and have alot of on the job experience. But Please stop feeding your ego as the smartest man in the indusrty it's becoming repulsive.

    I'm begining to questions your High and mighty approach to degrading other companies products as worthless.

    ErgoPharm
    "It doesn't work unless Ergo Makes it"
    Is this not in your write up

    "But, we totally skipped the L-Dopa part and discovered a brand new compound thatís closely related and is readily available for the body to use"


    so at first it was a brand new compound. then i called your ass on it so you switched your story to some crazy extraction technique with natural decarboxylase inhibitors.

    well what are these natural decarboxylase inhibitors?

    who are these universities and biotech firms in india.

    i cannot believe that people here buy your BS. but they do apparently

  15. Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    nice response
    open your eyes for christ sake

  16. This thread is getting rather explosive. This surely was not originally intended.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    Is this not in your write up

    "But, we totally skipped the L-Dopa part and discovered a brand new compound thatís closely related and is readily available for the body to use"


    so at first it was a brand new compound. then i called your ass on it so you switched your story to some crazy extraction technique with natural decarboxylase inhibitors.

    well what are these natural decarboxylase inhibitors?

    who are these universities and biotech firms in india.

    i cannot believe that people here buy your BS. but they do apparently
    they also claim:

    "this amazing compound also increased Testosterone levels similar to 100mg of exogenous testosterone!"

  18. Quote Originally Posted by easymac View Post
    they also claim:

    "this amazing compound also increased Testosterone levels similar to 100mg of exogenous testosterone!"
    People on TRT take over twice that amount. I think it's just a fancy way of saying "it will increase your testosterone levels by 50%". If that would be more quantifiable for ya.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs View Post
    I'm begining to questions your High and mighty approach to degrading other companies products as worthless.

    ErgoPharm
    "It doesn't work unless Ergo Makes it"



    these statements completely miss the point. rarely do my criticisms of competitors have anything to do with a product "per se". in fact, often the product is something i think is useful and i will say so in my posts alot of times

    examples:

    epistane
    6-bromo
    Jungle Warfare (6-dehydromethyltest)


    with all three products (which have been involved in recent debates of mine) i have gone on the record as saying they are useful ingredients that apparently have ergogenic benefits.

    the REAL POINT of my criticisms jacob is false and misleading claims. that is where i attack competitors, and i attack because it is unfair business practice to lie like that. For years i have taken the high ground in my advertisements and marketing and maintained a very modest and honest approach. I hate watching others make all this money the easy way, the way its always been done in this industry. I hate it so much i wanna puke every time i open up a mag or see some disgusting hype filled thread

  20. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    People on TRT take over twice that amount. I think it's just a fancy way of saying "it will increase your testosterone levels by 50%". If that would be more quantifiable for ya.
    its a completely useless statement because there is no timeline associated with 100mg

    do they mean 100mg taken in one day versus l-dopa taken that day?

    do they mean the average levels (area under the curve) from 100mg intramuscularly every week versus one week of daily doses of l-dopa?

    just another example of meaningless marketing hyperbole

  21. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    People on TRT take over twice that amount. I think it's just a fancy way of saying "it will increase your testosterone levels by 50%". If that would be more quantifiable for ya.
    Sure, but their claims are vague. You take powerfull everyday while TRT is typically once a week. Are they saying taking powerfull everyday is similar to 100mgs of test suspension everyday.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by easymac View Post
    Sure, but their claims are vague. You take powerfull everyday while TRT is typically once a week. Are they saying taking powerfull everyday is similar to 100mgs of test suspension everyday.
    No, their info is too vague to say that. Not to mention that would ultimately mean that this is more powerful than a beginner's cycle of injectable testosterone (500mg/week) which is way too strong of a statement for anyone to be making. You are making the assumption that it is similar to injecting 100mg every day.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    No, their info is too vague to say that. Not to mention that would ultimately mean that this is more powerful than a beginner's cycle of injectable testosterone (500mg/week) which is way too strong of a statement for anyone to be making. You are making the assumption that it is similar to injecting 100mg every day.
    haha, yeah that is way more than most people would need. The question was rhetorical, i know it is not simlar to ed injections. I was just saying that the statement was very vague and could be misinterpreted. The claims are still pretty bold with no proof that it is even true.
    Just for the record, i have taken powerfull and i enjoyed it so i have no beef with the product just with the advertising.

  24. Gooooooood. Feel the hate flow through you.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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