Pimpin' Ecdysteroids Q&A

[thesinner]

These are all based on personal experience and research I've done. Reference links will take you to abstracts because (1) I'm not going to pay money for the full text (2) It would delve too deep for the scope of this Q&A.

What are ecdysteroids?

They are phytosterones similar to the steroid hormones in insects. Think of it like a steroid derivative (like dbol or a test ester) but for something you would smack with a fly swatter (like TripDog). Despite the fact that they bug hormones, we do in fact have ecdysteroid receptors, and research suggests ecdy's can regulate gene expression. [1] [2]

Who uses ecdysteroids?
Me and Rodja pimp this stuff out like it's a Heidi Fleisch hooker.

Why do thesinner and Rodja like this stuff so much?
-Because we're cool like that.
-We play Legend of Zelda video games.
-It kicks ass, and is so totally underrated.

What can a person expect from ecdysteroid use?
-Increased Endurance
-Increased Vascularity
-Improved Body Composition
-Improved Recovery Time (advanced healing) [7]
-Better Immune Function [3]
-Comparable results to Dianabol (Take this for what it's worth) [4]

What are some side effects of ecdysteroids
-There exists a toxic dosage of B-Ecdysone; however, this a person would have to take several grams per pound bodymass worth of ecdysterone [5]. Effective dose is 300-500mg.
I am yet to see any other side effects noted in humans.

How do you use your Ecdy?
-Ecdy has a very short half-life. In about a half hour, this stuff will be almost gone! [6] Due to this tidbit, the following protocol is recommended:

1-Take 5-10 minutes before a protein rich meal (>35g proteins).
2- Take 50-100mg of active Ecdy at once.
3- Take 300-500mg daily.
4- Listen to the Legend of Zelda theme at least once per week.

Great times to use Ecdy:
-Ecdy is great for a cut because it enhances vascularity and 'hardness'
-Improved Endurance/Stamina for intense aerobic activity (e.g. running a race, Lacrosse game, fight)
-Post cycle therapy: I've found this greatly aides recovery in a hypoandrogenic state. It has also been observed (in insects) that testosterone interferes with ecdysterone receptor activation [8], so a low testosterone state might make for greater ecdy potential.

What are some sources of Ecdy?
The two most popular sources of ecdysterones are Cyatonic Vaga and Rhaponticum carthamoides (maral root). There are actually hundreds of phytoecdysteroids. The more popular ones on the market are B-Ecdysone (a.k.a. 20-hydroxyecdysone, ecdysterone) and Turkesterone. Turkesterone is supposedly several times more anabolic than B-ecdysone; however, it is more expensive and dosing is not as well established. Dosing recommendations were created around B-ecdysone.


If you have any further Q's, hit me up. It's way past my bedtime right now so I say to you, "Good Night".

:smite: thesinner

References:
[1] Ecdysteroid-Dependent Regulation of Genes in Mammalian Cells by a Drosophila Ecdysone Receptor and Chimeric Transactivators -- Christopherson et al. 89 (14): 6314 -- Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences
[2] http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/97/26/14512.pdf
[3] Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies
[4] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=3234543&ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
[5] ScienceDirect - Journal of Ethnopharmacology : Acute and chronic toxicological studies of Ajuga iva in experimental animals
[6] SpringerLink - Journal Article
[7] [Ecdysterone promotes wound healing in rabbits] [Nan Fang Yi Ke Da Xue Xue Bao. 2007] - PubMed Result
[8] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12441123&dopt=Citation

 

[rpen22]

Are there any specific Ecdy products that you like best? Also, how long do you like to run it for at a time?

 

[ReaperX]

I am still skeptical about ecdysterone. It takes a lot to work, plus the science behind it is still somewhat shaky. That russian study done on it comparing it to dianabol actually used dianabol in conjunction with ecdysterone.

Yeah the 2 were used together I believe. I'd like to believe ecdysterone but it has yet to yield any positive effects on me. I saw pro-anabol, the whole 17a thing makes it seem good on paper however the reviews on it have been mixed.

For the cost/amount needed to be ingested I can't say that it is a really good buy.


I'm a tribulus fan. It has been consistant for me. if it actually raises test. who really knows, but it is still a good aphrodiasic.

 

[TripDog]

i dont know dude......i tried it and was not impressed in the least........i even dressed up as link(with flute,raft,blue ring,naked pics of zelda,and mass quantities of triforce fragments) when i took it....still nada....

 

[thesinner]

i dont know dude......i tried it and was not impressed in the least........i even dressed up as link(with flute,raft,blue ring,naked pics of zelda,and mass quantities of triforce fragments) when i took it....still nada....

Did you have the red mail and the master sword?

How were you dosing it?

I've taken on a few accounts during post cycle therapy and find that I recover better (i.e. I'm less sore the next day) when taking it. As mentioned in my post, testosterone might effect ecdy metabolism.


You're not going to get results to hold a candle to steroids, but at the same time you get a pretty nice effect. I love the recovery I get from it.

 

[thesinner]

Are there any specific Ecdy products that you like best? Also, how long do you like to run it for at a time?

I usually buy in bulk (60% ecdy extract), mix with bioperine and cap it. I've heard beta-carotene also helps.

It's hard for a supp co to market an ecdy product alone to they add a bunch of other stuff with it to make it 'unique'. Halodol liquigels and E-Bol are two of the more popular ecdy products right now, and have to contain other things to bring consumer's in to it.

 

[thesinner]

I am still skeptical about ecdysterone. It takes a lot to work, plus the science behind it is still somewhat shaky. That russian study done on it comparing it to dianabol actually used dianabol in conjunction with ecdysterone.

Yeah the 2 were used together I believe. I'd like to believe ecdysterone but it has yet to yield any positive effects on me. I saw pro-anabol, the whole 17a thing makes it seem good on paper however the reviews on it have been mixed.

For the cost/amount needed to be ingested I can't say that it is a really good buy.


I'm a tribulus fan. It has been consistant for me. if it actually raises test. who really knows, but it is still a good aphrodiasic.

I don't trust any study done by russians comparing something to an anabolic steroid where the 'roid loses.

I need to do some more reading on Pro-anabol. I can't remember where the tail is, but yeah, there's a 'tail' on ecdysteroids that makes them work like a chasity belt for AR's. 17a-alkylation is only going to do so much for it. It's not gonna make it wanna stick it into your AR's and it's still gonna have a small half life.

 

[ReaperX]

I've tried E-Bol before. I used the recommended doses as stated. Further reflection tells me that I probably should have taken more than what was recommended, but I usually don't do that with supps.

I bought 2 boxes of Halodrol liquigels from my friend. I have them chilling, but it actually might be a good idea to buy a bottle of E-Bol and stack it with it. There might be something that'll come out of it.

 

[RenegadeRows]

I was thinking about trying Anagen, it's pretty cheap over at NP at the moment. How does that compare to E-bol?

 

[ReaperX]

Actually, phuck I might well throw anagen in the mix if it is so cheap. I'm looking for 'steroid-like gains'

 

[thesinner]

I've tried E-Bol before. I used the recommended doses as stated. Further reflection tells me that I probably should have taken more than what was recommended, but I usually don't do that with supps.

I bought 2 boxes of Halodrol liquigels from my friend. I have them chilling, but it actually might be a good idea to buy a bottle of E-Bol and stack it with it. There might be something that'll come out of it.

One dose of E-Bol has only 80mg of B-ecdysone in it. It has another ecdysteroid, but there's not much data on that feller. Not to mention it has a bunch of other 'stuff' in it that would compete for absorption.

My best recommendation would be to buy some bulk 60% ecdy (BN and BAC sell it for <$0.70 per gram), mix with a little bit of bioperine (if you can get yourself some, it's pretty cheap and it helps. If not, it's still effective), cap it so that you have 150-200mg of extract per cap (size "0" will work swimmingly), and take 3-5x per day.

Anagen, by Scivation, is another ecdy product and you can get it for fairly cheap. They've stopped production due to lack of sales (ecdy products just simply don't sell that great) and have it on clearance price @ their website.

 

[thesinner]

Actually, phuck I might well throw anagen in the mix if it is so cheap. I'm looking for 'steroid-like gains'

I wouldn't say steroid-like gains, but it makes for some decent recomp, and works very well for recovery.

 

[RenegadeRows]

I wouldn't say steroid-like gains, but it makes for some decent recomp, and works very well for recovery.

Damnit, what about the 20lbs in 2 weeks?

I'm kinda surprised Scivation would make a claim like that

 

[ReaperX]

Damnit, what about the 20lbs in 2 weeks?

try 20lbs in 2 hours.

 

[CustomNW]

You could use ecdy for bulking, yes? Just change your diet to a clean bulk for optimal protein synthesis.

 

[thesinner]

Damnit, what about the 20lbs in 2 weeks?

I'm kinda surprised Scivation would make a claim like that

Haha, they tricked you! Their write-up is saying it won't put on 20lbs in 2 weeks. It was meant as a poke at companies like MuscleTech and BSN. Ecdy isn't strong enough to be a 'mass-building' supplement. Combine that with a very specific protocol to get any benefit from it, and you've got a product that's pretty tough to sell.

I think if you compare it to creatine (as opposed to dianabol), that would give you a better idea of what you could expect.

 

[RenegadeRows]

Haha, they tricked you! Their write-up is saying it won't put on 20lbs in 2 weeks. It was meant as a poke at companies like MuscleTech and BSN. Ecdy isn't strong enough to be a 'mass-building' supplement. Combine that with a very specific protocol to get any benefit from it, and you've got a product that's pretty tough to sell.

I think if you compare it to creatine (as opposed to dianabol), that would give you a better idea of what you could expect.

LOL, I read a little closer, you are right.

I might have to try this stuff

 

[jjohn]

Tried e-bol and only felt the pump the first days. I took 6 caps pre wo, and felt a good pump there!, Methoxy alone (huge pumps on a cut. Love it), Sci fit ecdy 300( totally sucks).

 

[Rodja]

You could use ecdy for bulking, yes? Just change your diet to a clean bulk for optimal protein synthesis.

It would make a great addition to an NHA stack. I ran JW and PA together a few months back and was shocked at how potent the stack was. I made gains in every area, lost fat, and had cardio to burn.

A staple for my MMA training used to be Anagen because of the awesome recovery and quality of sleep from it. I can see it being a good PCT aid in that respect, but increasing the dosage would be wise.

 

[ReaperX]

Does Pro-Anabol need to be ran really high too ? I like to just be able to take a product then let it do its thing. Ecdysterone is too specific in its application, plus you have to use relatively high quantities.

 

[jjohn]

I tried Pro anabol, and I only noticed increased libido...

 

[ReaperX]

I tried Pro anabol, and I only noticed increased libido...

When I get drunk I notice a increase in libido too.

 

[jjohn]

When I get drunk I notice a increase in libido too.

Mkay...Your point?

 

[ReaperX]

Nada.

I thought ecdysterone is supposed to increase protein synthesis ?

If this is the case how do you quantify this ? Seems to me the only way would be increased muscle gain.

 

[CustomNW]

Nada.

I thought ecdysterone is supposed to increase protein synthesis ?

If this is the case how do you quantify this ? Seems to me the only way would be increased muscle gain.

Exactly why I would use it as a bulker. I would like to see if there has been any logs of this specifically as a bulk.

 

[thesinner]

Nada.

I thought ecdysterone is supposed to increase protein synthesis ?

If this is the case how do you quantify this ? Seems to me the only way would be increased muscle gain.

It increases hepatic protein synthesis. I tried to find some research about it on the net, but couldn't find much in terms of published research (I've seen it referenced several times, though).

Other signs of protein synthesis include healing properties (see the study done on bunnies) and immune function.

 

[jjohn]

Nada.

I thought ecdysterone is supposed to increase protein synthesis ?

If this is the case how do you quantify this ? Seems to me the only way would be increased muscle gain.

I just mentioned this because of the other herbals that are in there that probably are responsible for libido enhancement. No improvement in muscel mass whatsoever on this one..

 

[rpen22]

What do you guys think about using ecdy with an AI on a cut? I got a bunch of Anagen and Fenotest for wicked cheap and I'm already going to be using an AI.Would it be beneficial to throw it in?

 

[Rodja]

What do you guys think about using ecdy with an AI on a cut? I got a bunch of Anagen and Fenotest for wicked cheap and I'm already going to be using an AI.Would it be beneficial to throw it in?

It would basically be an NHA stack w/ ecdy. The Fenotest will help with free-test, the AI will help with total test, and the Anagen will help with protein synthesis and recovery.

 

[bioman]

I've toyed around with ecdy a little and I do like it. It's just a matter of keeping your expectations reasonable IMO.

I usually notice a little bit of leaning, improved skin tone, a pretty significant boost in overall energy and endurance and my muscles stay fuller more often even when calories dip below maintenance.

I've never gained any appreciable lbm from it but I don't view it as a AAS-like product either...just an overall performance booster. Treats me well when I am doing lots of field work and hiking a lot.


Ecdy and Turk are on my list to stack with Drive when it comes out. I think the naringen in the Drive will enhance the ecdy halflife and be a nice boost to the stack. One might get some good gains off this or stacked with Trisobargen.

 

[thesinner]

I've toyed around with ecdy a little and I do like it. It's just a matter of keeping your expectations reasonable IMO.

I usually notice a little bit of leaning, improved skin tone, a pretty significant boost in overall energy and endurance and my muscles stay fuller more often even when calories dip below maintenance.

I've never gained any appreciable lbm from it but I don't view it as a anabolic steroids-like product either...just an overall performance booster. Treats me well when I am doing lots of field work and hiking a lot.


Ecdy and Turk are on my list to stack with Drive when it comes out. I think the naringen in the Drive will enhance the ecdy halflife and be a nice boost to the stack. One might get some good gains off this or stacked with Trisobargen.

:goodpost:

That pretty much hits the nail on the head. I think the reason ecdy products have a tendency to fail is because they are being sold as anabolics, when they are more akin to increased performance and recovery.

 

[thesinner]

Are there any specific Ecdy products that you like best? Also, how long do you like to run it for at a time?

Seems I missed your second question.

Since ecdysterone is generally safe at the dosages you would possibly dream of taking, there's really no need to cycle it.

I would say to use for at least a month if you're going to try and achieve any benefit from it, but what's cool about ecdy's is that you can (pending your funds) take ecdy for much longer periods of time.

As I've mentioned before,I really like it during PCT from an oral prohormone/designer steroid.

 

[bioman]

It'd be a great core supp for the MMA crowd IMO.

 

[Rodja]

I like to take it for 6-8 week stretches, depending on my training. I generally take 400mg of ecdy spaced out into 4 doses throughout the day. As previously mentioned, think of it as more of an ergogenic aid than a mass builder.

 

[celc5]

Good discussion. Just posting for future reference.

But, i was wondering, will ecdy help my Dragon Quest skills the way it works in Zelda?

 

[thesinner]

Good discussion. Just posting for future reference.

But, i was wondering, will ecdy help my Dragon Quest skills the way it works in Zelda?

No, ecdy only helps with action RPG's.

 

[extremenergy3]

No, ecdy only helps with action RPG's.

Owned.izza:

 

[fbxdan]

Ecdy is a good supplement. Like bioman says "keep your expecations reasonable". On turkesterone i noticed some nice vascularity and leaning out effect.

 

[rpen22]

I've got 4 bottles of Anagen so I think I might as well test it out right now and add it in during my contest prep. What would be an effective dosage for someone at ~200 pounds?

 

[thesinner]

10 weeks out, right?

*thinks*:think:

Like personally, I would go buck wild and dose it 6-7 ED. That would last you for about 8 weeks and some change. The dosing chart for a 200lb lifter recommends 4 to 5 caps.

 

[rpen22]

10 weeks out, right?

*thinks*:think:

Like personally, I would go buck wild and dose it 6-7 ED. That would last you for about 8 weeks and some change. The dosing chart for a 200lb lifter recommends 4 to 5 caps.

Yeah, 10 weeks out as of last Saturday.

I think I just might try it at 6-7. :twisted:

Thanks for the advice, and I'll let you know if/how it goes down. What's the highest you guys have ever dosed it before?

 

[thesinner]

Last time I did it, I capped it myself and got about a gram a day of 60% extract. It was tight.

I tried Turkesterone (2%) this past spring. It was ....ok, but I don't really know how to dose turk. (I was taking 2g per day, but probably should've gone higher.)

 

[thebigt]

Last time I did it, I capped it myself and got about a gram a day of 60% extract. It was tight.

I tried Turkesterone (2%) this past spring. It was ....ok, but I don't really know how to dose turk. (I was taking 2g per day, but probably should've gone higher.)

been following your advice and taking 3 anagen 5 minutes before breakfast and dinner. working 12 hour days so only get to dose it twice a day. on day 5 and it seems to be helping get through some rough days of 90%'s and up.

 

[Mixelflick]

I'm using Kre-Anabolyn which among other things has a hefty dose of full spectrum Rhaponticum Carthamoides. Only been using it a day but generally with these products (if it's quality) I start feeling it on day 3.

 

[Rodja]

been following your advice and taking 3 anagen 5 minutes before breakfast and dinner. working 12 hour days so only get to dose it twice a day. on day 5 and it seems to be helping get through some rough days of 90%'s and up.

I get some amazing rest and recovery from Anagen.

 

[thebigt]

I get some amazing rest and recovery from Anagen.

what doses you recommend? i only dose 2xday.

 

[thesinner]

3-4 is typical for best results

the more spread out, the better. Taking smaller doses spread out will do more than big one's all at once.

 

[dontknowaboutme]

They've stopped production due to lack of sales (ecdy products just simply don't sell that great) and have it on clearance price @ their website.

Thanks--and repped. With all my school work lately I haven't been paying much attention. I loved Anagen, one of my favorite supplements. I just ordered 4 bottles, might order more but I am trying to save my money.

 

[MentalTwitch]

This is cool stuff. Eventhouhg it may be a bit costly but sounds like it'd be worth it.

Stacking ti with DRive will make for some fun...mmmmm ilove knowing stack ahead of time.

 

[thesinner]

This is cool stuff. Eventhouhg it may be a bit costly but sounds like it'd be worth it.

Stacking ti with DRive will make for some fun...mmmmm ilove knowing stack ahead of time.

If you buy it in bulk, it costs $0.68 per gram. If you dose it 1 g per day that's twice the recommended dosage and only $0.68 per day. Then you look at something like Hyperdrol, which will cost you ~$1.50 per day if taken at recommended dosages.

granted, hyperdrol is a solid product and might have more effects, ecdysterone does not need to be cycled.