Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM vs SuperCissus Rx

[koi1214]

Thanks to the help from RenegadeRows.I am starting an All Natural bulkingroutine for the next 4 months.I have used Animal Flex in the past.I would like feedback from people who have used both a Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM product and a Cissus product on which one worked best for you.I tried"SEARCH".I would appreciate some input from the vets.
Thanks alot
Joe

 

[Seth1013]

Yeah i have the same question about what would be the best Cissus product to buy

 

[Arzi75]

Thanks to the help from RenegadeRows.I am starting an All Natural bulkingroutine for the next 4 months.I have used Animal Flex in the past.I would like feedback from people who have used both a Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM product and a Cissus product on which one worked best for you.I tried"SEARCH".I would appreciate some input from the vets.
Thanks alot
Joe

Hey guys, check out my log Arzi75's Super Cissus Rx Log. I just started this log last week in order to find out can Super Cissus Rx really outperform a solid joint supp stack of Glucosamine, Chonroitin acid and MSM (each taken daily), or even NSAIDs (like Diclofenac or Celecoxib).

I have been taking the above stuff almost daily for a long time and my goal is to eventually replace at least the other joint supps in my supp cabinet with a bottle of Cissus product, if the results are good.

 

[Arzi75]

Yeah i have the same question about what would be the best Cissus product to buy

I did a couple posts here before purchasing the Super Cissus Rx asking the same questions - it basically boils down to which % extract you want to opt for - the consensus seems to be that the 10% extract (like the one in Super Cissus Rx) seems to carry a range of antioxidantal properties that is best suited for joint support - the higher extracts usually carry more anabolic effects like increased stength and/or increased metabolism.

See the complete posts here:

Incarnate - 20 % Extract vs. 10% Extract

Super Cissus Rx - 10% Extract vs. 20% Extract

 

[koi1214]

Hey Arzi75 thanks for the info.
Dethlok which Cissus product are you using and at what dose?

 

[koi1214]

Your sweetspot dose is dependent on your current needs. I am cycling a dry compound and using Bulk Super Cissus RX from NutraPlanet at 7-8g ed in split doses.

How do you take it in the bulk form?I mean just add it with
protein shake or do you cap them.
Also 1.5grm=1/4 teaspoon right

 

[EasyEJL]

I'm double dosing osteobolin-c plus taking chondroitin/glucosamine, and still have occasional joint pain. sucks to get old

 

[Big BAMA]

I use Super Cissus RX by USP labs and I will swear by them. I quit taking Gluc,MSM ands Chond. The Cissus works wonders for my ole Airborne Knees and Ligaments.

 

[Distilled Water]

I also take Super Cissus-RX (not at the moment but during ball season) I love it. I was on Glucosamine/Chon/MSM. That was good for my knees and what not but Cissus-RX seems to help with my tendons i.e. elbows and shoulders from throwing.

I will admit I thought it was garbage at first, it took about 3 weeks to kick in at 1 in the morning and 1 before bed but it did. When I knew I was going to throw alot that week I'd double the dose and could really tell a difference.

Super Cissus RX is kick when it comes to joint/legiment pain. Seems to have a long lasting effect also, Infact this summer I was pitching again (after 3 year of nothing but playing the feild) and have almost Zero arm problems.....this is the first whole year since little leauge I have had arm problems

 

[EasyEJL]

I probably should try oratropin and see if that helps any. Nothing really grows back cartillage anyhow

 

[Arzi75]

I'm double dosing osteobolin-c plus taking chondroitin/glucosamine, and still have occasional joint pain. sucks to get old

EasyEJL, you really are double-dosing EVERYTHING! You double-dosing your glucosamine, too, or just the Osteobolin-C?

I haven't yet tried double-dosing Cissus as I'm frankly a little bit concerned about elevated estrogen levels that doing so might possibly cause - just taking the recommended 3-4 caps a day. On the other hand, I guess slightly elevated e-levels are actually good for joint health? I think my joint problems really exacerbated when I took a couple of anti-E's for too long, I guess, which caused my joint problems to flare up.

On glucosamine, I like to go for the 2000mg-3000mg range although not sure if any evidence exists that would support dosing any higher than the recommended 1500mg a day, but I guess I am just of the type that likes to double or even superdose on me supps.

 

[EasyEJL]

EasyEJL, you really are double-dosing EVERYTHING! You double-dosing your glucosamine, too, or just the Osteobolin-C?

I haven't yet tried double-dosing Cissus as I'm frankly a little bit concerned about elevated estrogen levels that doing so might possibly cause - just taking the recommended 3-4 caps a day. On the other hand, I guess slightly elevated e-levels are actually good for joint health? I think my joint problems really exacerbated when I took a couple of anti-E's for too long, I guess, which caused my joint problems to flare up.

On glucosamine, I like to go for the 2000mg-3000mg range although not sure if any evidence exists that would support dosing any higher than the recommended 1500mg a day, but I guess I am just of the type that likes to double or even superdose on me supps.

Yeah, I'm at the 2-3g a day on the G/C/M too I only do it with supps in my problem areas, scouts honor

 

[Arzi75]

I probably should try oratropin and see if that helps any. Nothing really grows back cartillage anyhow

Hi EasyEJL, not familiar with Oratropin, what's the benefits of it over, say, Cissus?

 

[EasyEJL]

Hi EasyEJL, not familiar with Oratropin, what's the benefits of it over, say, Cissus?

Its an every other day dosed IGF-1 that is orally available, and horribly expensive

http://www.ibe-technology.com/products.php?catid=5&pid=25

almost nothing helps with healing/recovery faster than high IGF-1 levels. Just expensive at $190 for a month. There are wonder stories here on AM about guys with ripped tendons, stuff like that. Believeble stories too. But I dont think it will help me grow cartillage. I still will likely try it someday, growth hormone has that big benefit of creating new muscle cells, all the rest of what we do just makes existing cells bigger.

 

[Arzi75]

I only do it with supps in my problem areas, scouts honor

And your problem areas exclude what areas? I try to double-dose only with supps in my problem areas, too, but recently noticed that probably the only thing I'm not double-dosing is coffee.

 

[EasyEJL]

And your problem areas exclude what areas? I try to double-dose only with supps in my problem areas, too, but recently noticed that probably the only thing I'm not double-dosing is coffee.

Crap, you got me there. I guess I dont double dose food And I stay in reasonable range on fish oils. 5-6g/day. my cholesterol is at a 3:1 ratio, and total is only 128 as of last test, so I dont worry about that, or triglicerides or blood pressure.

Arthritis sucks completely tho. At 25 I had a doctor tell me that by 50 i'd have knee replacement surgery or be in a wheelchair

 

[xjsynx]

I just picked up some Osteobolin-C for my parents........crap I forgot to get me a bottle :frustrate

 

[koi1214]

Cap and take on an empty stomach.

1/4 tsp = ~1100 mg

Thanks for the help

 

[koi1214]

I'm double dosing osteobolin-c plus taking chondroitin/glucosamine, and still have occasional joint pain. sucks to get old

yeah sure does suck getting old

 

[Arzi75]

I'm double dosing osteobolin-c plus taking chondroitin/glucosamine, and still have occasional joint pain. sucks to get old

Hey EasyEJL, I just noticed that Osteobolin-C has the 5% Cissus Quadrangularis extract - I actually think the 5% extract might be the best one for joint support after all as the higher % extracts all seem to carry so many other effects.

What's your take on this Cissus % extract issue? For joint relief def go for the low % ectracts, or does it really make a difference?

 

[Arzi75]

I just picked up some Osteobolin-C for my parents........crap I forgot to get me a bottle :frustrate

Hey, think positive - you're looking out for your folks, not for yourself. That's commendable, sir! :thumbsup:

 

[EasyEJL]

Hey EasyEJL, I just noticed that Osteobolin-C has the 5% Cissus Quadrangularis extract - I actually think the 5% extract might be the best one for joint support after all as the higher % extracts all seem to carry so many other effects.

What's your take on this Cissus % extract issue? For joint relief def go for the low % ectracts, or does it really make a difference?

I can't tell much of a difference. They all help with other soreness and healing, but none seem to help for the osteoarthritis. I have no DOMS ever, no matter how hard I work out. I can do lower body or cardio to the point where i'm shaking and stumbling on my way out, and by just a couple hours later i'm fine. My biceps end up at the upper body workout to where I have a hard time shampooing, but 3 hours later I could shoot hoops. But it was that way on 20% extracts too. my kness lightly ache no matter what. thank god for the recovery and soreness aid tho

 

[Arzi75]

I can't tell much of a difference. They all help with other soreness and healing, but none seem to help for the osteoarthritis. I have no DOMS ever, no matter how hard I work out. I can do lower body or cardio to the point where i'm shaking and stumbling on my way out, and by just a couple hours later i'm fine. My biceps end up at the upper body workout to where I have a hard time shampooing, but 3 hours later I could shoot hoops. But it was that way on 20% extracts too. my kness lightly ache no matter what. thank god for the recovery and soreness aid tho

So, what you are saying is that you have noticed a distinct difference in recovery and in post-workout soreness as contrasted to having less aches overall?

That's interesting - did not know that Cissus could faciliate recovery that much.

Just noticed that Osteobolin-C has vitamin C in it - is that just for the enhanced collagen synthesis or could there possibly be some synergistic effect in having vitamin C and Cissus in the same product?

 

[EasyEJL]

So, what you are saying is that you have noticed a distinct difference in recovery and in post-workout soreness as contrasted to having less aches overall?

That's interesting - did not know that Cissus could faciliate recovery that much.

Just noticed that Osteobolin-C has vitamin C in it - is that just for the enhanced collagen synthesis or could there possibly be some synergistic effects in having vitamin C and Cissus in the same product?

Hard to say on the synergy and why vit c was added, that is one area of applied nutriceutical's specialties tho, working out the combinations that are most beneficial. There was definitely a recovery benefit for me, but I am taking in 10g a day of 5%, which is fairly hefty superdosing . Really I hadn't noticed the overall recovery difference till we started talking about it in this thread, as the improvement sort of crept up on me. That is the case with cissus too from what i've seen, it takes 2-3 weeks, possibly longer for it to really reach full effect. But looking back on it, I bounce back WAY better now than before, and nothing soreness wise the following day.I had a good solid workout this morning between 8-9, and now its 11, and almost all the stiffness/soreness is gone. Not too bad for almost 40

 

[Iron Warrior]

Glucosamine is still beneficial for fat loss, ask the guys at Avant Labs

 

[themandaloria]

I want to try Cissus so bad, but they told me no one under 18

 

[Arzi75]

Glucosamine is still beneficial for fat loss, ask the guys at Avant Labs

Not sure that I'm following you on this one, bro, but is this sarcasm, or are you confusing glucosamine with Cissus?

I think some studies that were conducted have shown that glucosamine can increase fasting blood sugar levels and worsen glucose tolerance i.e. can cause just the opposite of weight-loss. Cissus, on the other hand, has been studied on its ability to increase metabolism and has been found quite effective.

So, this glucosamine for fat-loss is some inside joke, right?

 

[Arzi75]

I want to try Cissus so bad, but they told me no one under 18

The only negative things I have heard ever about Cissus, are that someone reported it can cause acne and some stories of elevated estrogen levels, but nothing worse than that.

Hmmm... Must be of that latter that they are not recommending it to you - you don't wanna grow boobs when you are at your age.

But, in all seriousness, even if you are under 18 and have a joint condition, I think you could give Cissus a try as it is probably the most potent joint supp currently out there. If you cannot get any, then go for the old tried and true stack of glucosamine sulfate and chondroitin acid. They are among the very few supps that even doctors recommend and have been clinically shown to provide strength, flexibility, and elasticity to cartilage and connective tissue, but good quality glucosamine can set you back some big $$$s as you need to use it for up to 3 months to see the results.

 

[Iron Warrior]

Not sure that I'm following you on this one, bro, but is this sarcasm, or are you confusing glucosamine with Cissus?

I think some studies that were conducted have shown that glucosamine can increase fasting blood sugar levels and worsen glucose tolerance i.e. can cause just the opposite of weight-loss. Cissus, on the other hand, has been studied on its ability to increase metabolism and has been found quite effective.

So, this glucosamine for fat-loss is some inside joke, right?

I was actually serious. You need about 3 grams or so for it to work. It works through leptin manipulation IIRC

 

[EasyEJL]

I was actually serious. You need about 3 grams or so for it to work. It works through leptin manipulation IIRC

Interesting, i'm only around 2.25g right now, i'll bump it up an extra tab now Any difference between the glucosamine type? theres 3 or 4 variations, i'm taking the HCL right now, can't recall the others offhand.

 

[Arzi75]

I was actually serious. You need about 3 grams or so for it to work. It works through leptin manipulation IIRC

Ok, thanks for that - that was news to me. I have been currently taking 1000-3000 mg glucosamine daily for some time now and I haven't noticed any fat loss that would have coincided with my starting to take glucosamine or with the start/end points for the periods when I have been taking only a moderate 1000-1500 mg or during the periods when I have taken 3000mg a day.

Also little suspicious of this because of the other studies I mentioned above. But good to know, though. Why the reference to Avant Labs, are they pushing a glucosamine-based product for weight-loss?

 

[Arzi75]

Interesting, i'm only around 2.25g right now, i'll bump it up an extra tab now Any difference between the glucosamine type? theres 3 or 4 variations, i'm taking the HCL right now, can't recall the others offhand.

I have been taking around 3000 mg, but I have been taking only glucosamine sulfate. Interested in knowing, too, whether the weight-loss is specific to a particular type of glucosamine?

 

[EasyEJL]

Glucosamine also contributes to weight loss. The effect of insulin on lipogenesis, the formation of fatty acids in the body, is blocked by glucosamine, indicating that glucosamine plays a role as a messenger for this insulin effect. Insulin is secreted when there is high sugar content, insulin secretion allows for fat storage. Glucose triggers a rise in insulin. Insulin acts to lower blood glucose levels, regulating those levels through several actions, including lipogenesis (conversion of carbohydrate and protein into fat). High insulin levels trigger the hypothalamus to send hunger signals, which sets off a craving for carbohydrates; this leads one to eat more, which leads to more insulin. Excess carbohydrates are converted into glucose, and then stored as fat.

 

[EasyEJL]

So, glucosamine would NOT contribute to weight loss in a low carb diet, but potentially could in a higher carb diet, as it helps block that action. Nifty

 

[Arzi75]

The classic EasyEJL delivery!

1. Set up the topic (with a question etc.)

2. Share the theory and the relevant information

3. Sign off with the conclusion and/or the take-home message

Students may leave the class room. :thumbsup:

 

[Arzi75]

So, glucosamine would NOT contribute to weight loss in a low carb diet, but potentially could in a higher carb diet, as it helps block that action. Nifty

Ok, thanks EasyEJL - this was news to me. You are THE man! :thumbsup:

My diet is pretty high carb, so I have got one more reason to sticking with glucosamine.

 

[shakti]

ok great info thanx to Easy, so would this help in fatloss if taken with berberine/YG ?...since the intake of carbs is much higher .

 

[shakti]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to EasyEJL again.