Superdosing Your Supps - Good or Bad?

How often do you superdose your supps?


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Arzi75

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Hey, I'd just like to find out what's the general opinon around here on how beneficial people deem going overboard - or going to extremes - with your supps by superdosing or even MEGAdosing your supps? :D

E.g. here are some "super-dosing cycles" that I have personally tried recently (more or less successfully):

Taking per day:

5000-6000 mg of Beta-Alaine (powder)
1200-1500 mg of EPA (omega 3)
800-1000 mg of DHA (omega 3)
20-25 caps of BCAAs
5000-10000mg of L-Carnitine (liquid and/or caps)
around 10000-12000 mg of L-Arginine (both caps and powder)
5-6g of Lecithin
5-7g CLA
5-6g HMB (caps)
10-20g of Glutamine (powder)

I know that exceeding the recommended daily dosages is commonplace, but is there ever any real use of going overboard or am I just wasting my money? :)

I'm around 245 lbs. and been lifting weights for about 6 years. In my honest opinion, I think the recommendations on most of the product labels are not suitable for guys that are over 200 lbs., but on the other hand I know that your body can only digest i.e. use a certain amount of nutriceuticals within a certain period of time i.e. for Beta-Alaine anything more than 4000mg a day is just waste of money.

Also with the fish oils I have seen some studies that suggest that going overboard with fish oil - getting too much omega 3 fatty acids can actually be just as bad or even more deleterious to your health as having your omega 3-6 ratio askew due to insufficient omega 3 intake, but I never managed to see any specific citations as to what then is too much i.e. how much fish oil one can consume without your fish oil intake causing more illnesses than serving to cure illnesses?

So, where do you draw the line? Is it okay to go overboard every once in a while as long as you don't do so for prolonged periods of time, or should you always go by the recommendations, or opt for a "happy medium" somewhere in-between depending on your weight, age, experience etc.?

How beneficial you see the whole practice of superdosing or megadosing or is it always just more waste of your money and supps? :)
 
TheMyth

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too much of anything, even a good thing, can be bad. Even water can kill you at higher amounts. Not a good idea in my opinion.
 
EasyEJL

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Outside of the l-carnitine, I don't think you are going overboard. The rest of it is pretty reasonable for a lean bulk, recomp or cut
 
TheMyth

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yea, what he is taking is fine, those arn't really superdoses at all. But if he does decide to supedose, I don't think it would be a good idea.
 

Arzi75

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Outside of the l-carnitine, I don't think you are going overboard. The rest of it is pretty reasonable for a lean bulk, recomp or cut
Yeah - I agree - not going overboard def - but still way above what the daily recommendations are for these nutriceuticals when looking at the directions on the product labels or listening to what the guy or lady at your local health food or supplement store will tell you.

I usually go for around 5000-6000 mg of L-Carnitine daily, but sometimes have gone close to 10000mg. Not sure of the benefits though.
 

Arzi75

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yea, what he is taking is fine, those arn't really superdoses at all.
That's why I have the words "superdosing cycles" placed inside the ""s. :)

Not superdosing, but going definitely well above the daily recommended intake for these supps.

Hard to define what constitutes superdosing as everything is so relative - can you give me examples of REAL superdosing of e.g. fish oil (EPA, DHA) - what kind of mgs we are talking about here?

As I think with some of these supps I'd be interested to superdose (or to at least take more than I'm currently taking), but not sure of the amounts and the safety and relative benefits thereof.
 
Rodja

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The only supplement that I mega-dose is BCAA. I usually take more than what is recommended, but not by much.
 

Jstrong20

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I take whatever dose is the moste effective. Some supps need double dosed and some I can get away with less than some would use.
 
EasyEJL

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I've seen as high as 30g of fish oil a day, I've personally taken 12mg of CLA a day (but I think 9+ counts as superdose). The benefits are iffy at best, the CLA I think did help somewhat, but not all that much to be worth spending that much. a 180 cap bottle goes WAY fast at that. The fish oil is one of those "the jury is out" still on benefits, but it is relatively cheap to take at that.

The arginine is close, but if its spread through the day its not really wasted, just its expensive protein :)

Thats a big piece too, true bioavailability and timing. Taking vit C for instance, if you take a regular 1000mg tablet (not time release) its a complete waste. Half life in your body is around 1 hr, and your body can only use 60mg/hr. so by 90 minutes of taking it, its mostly gone, and by 2 hours they can't find it in your system. Taking 100mg tabs every 2 hours tho, and you stay loaded thru a 16 hour day on 800mg. So a superdose of 5g taken at 8am does no good, but maybe taking 200g every 2 hrs shows some value above 100mg every 2 hrs
 

Arzi75

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I've seen as high as 30g of fish oil a day, I've personally taken 12mg of CLA a day (but I think 9+ counts as superdose). The benefits are iffy at best, the CLA I think did help somewhat, but not all that much to be worth spending that much. a 180 cap bottle goes WAY fast at that. The fish oil is one of those "the jury is out" still on benefits, but it is relatively cheap to take at that.

The arginine is close, but if its spread through the day its not really wasted, just its expensive protein :)

Thats a big piece too, true bioavailability and timing. Taking vit C for instance, if you take a regular 1000mg tablet (not time release) its a complete waste. Half life in your body is around 1 hr, and your body can only use 60mg/hr. so by 90 minutes of taking it, its mostly gone, and by 2 hours they can't find it in your system. Taking 100mg tabs every 2 hours tho, and you stay loaded thru a 16 hour day on 800mg. So a superdose of 5g taken at 8am does no good, but maybe taking 200g every 2 hrs shows some value above 100mg every 2 hrs

Thanks, EasyEJL! This is the kind of info I was looking forward to seeing posted. :D

Funny how confident you are stating what's the limit for superdosing of CLA - 9+. So, my taking of 7g of CLA is not superdosing.

Hmmm... I better bump that up to 9g quick, so I can tell the Myth that I'am actually genuinely superdosing at least on one supp! :D
 
EasyEJL

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hehehee yeah, well there are products that recommend as high as 6g out there for cla and since doses are based on 200lb body weight up to around 8 or so could be viewed as meeting dosing per a product for your weight. I can't recall whose CLA was at 6g as their standard dose. Probably GNC or some other money hungry group.

But yeah, who knows really what is superdosing. Look at the USRDA for carbs, tell me that during the evolution of man we took in anything near that. Bread is only a couple thousand years old, before that there wasnt' any really easy ways to take in that much.
 

Arzi75

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I've seen as high as 30g of fish oil a day, I've personally taken 12mg of CLA a day (but I think 9+ counts as superdose).
30 grams of fish oil sure does constitutes superdosing, I'd say that is almost up there in the megadose range - how much omega 3 fatty acids that translates into - something like 15000 mg?

Yup, compared to that my 1500mg of EPA (plus 1000mg of DHA) sure ain't superdosing! :D

But the 9+ for CLA sounds like a plan to me. :thumbsup:
 

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I didn't even read all the posts/post, but it is a stupid idea to superdose. If it says take 3 caps a day, why would 19 caps be better ? Bodybuilders have the 'more is better mentality'. Best case scenario is nothing happens, worse case scenario is you hurt yourself.

It is just best to follow what the manufacturer says, after all they made the product.
 

Arzi75

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Thats a big piece too, true bioavailability and timing. Taking vit C for instance, if you take a regular 1000mg tablet (not time release) its a complete waste. Half life in your body is around 1 hr, and your body can only use 60mg/hr. so by 90 minutes of taking it, its mostly gone, and by 2 hours they can't find it in your system. Taking 100mg tabs every 2 hours tho, and you stay loaded thru a 16 hour day on 800mg. So a superdose of 5g taken at 8am does no good, but maybe taking 200g every 2 hrs shows some value above 100mg every 2 hrs
That's interesting, I have always come across arginine "superdosing" schemes that are like "5g in the morning, 5g before your workout, 5g before you go to sleep etc." So, basically you are saying taking only 1600mg (8 x 200mg) a day can be more efficient than taking 15000mg (3 x 5000mg) a day?

Vit C I can take 8 x 200mg a day, but dosing L-Arginine only 8 x 200mg a day... Hmmm... I'm not so sure. :)

Or were you still elaborating on your vit C example here? :)
 

Arzi75

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If it says take 3 caps a day, why would 19 caps be better ?
If the 3 caps a day is meant for a person of "average" weight like 180 lbs for a guy. and you are 250+ lbs., I would say the 3 caps is definitely insufficient for you. :D

I have noticed - although on some very rare occasions - that some products carry labels that tell you the dosing according to your weight - I never double-dose or "over-dose" on products like that as I know that the dosing is not "one-size-fits-all", but that the fact that people are of differing weights has already been factored in.

One prime example of such labels - that I have seen recently - is the label on RPM.
 
L size

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I add a extra cap or two on some supps. Like AAKG is a good example i normally have to take a little bit more then recommended to feel it. I run creatine at 7 grams a day. i feel 5 but i really feel 7gms. i think is is a trail and error kinda thing and knowing your body whic will come in time but i wouldnt go way overboard with anything then it could be bad your health or a waste of money.... i dont want either.
 
Dr Packenwood

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Typically I'll start out with 1/2 the suggested serving until I see what the supp will do to me. Then I bump it up to a full serving/servings per day. Then I'll go anywhere from 1.25x to 1.5x the dosage but rarely have I ever gone 2x. Creatine is about the only thing I can go 2x on and not end up with the ****s, lethargic, or just feeling plain bad.
I was taking some Omega-3 at 6x the 1000mg dosage for a few days then it started feeling like a rock in my stomach. I noticed how tired I got, my burps smelled like my ex wife and I didn't feel very good. If I take the 1g/day like it says on the bottle I feel fine.

I think for the most part the labels the manufacturers place on the bottles are more or less a 'cover my ass' statement.
If they say on the bottle to take the whole thing at bed time, and you die in your sleep, they might be suspect. I think for the most part they give the dose that will show the effect of the supplement, and its up to me to decide how much of the product I need for the full desired effect, being that the supplement in question might affect others differently than me, being that my composition is different from everybody elses.

Bottom line, start out underdosing until you are familiar with the product, then bump it up until you feel comfortable. Its obvious when you're over doing it with anything.
 

Arzi75

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Bottom line, start out underdosing until you are familiar with the product, then bump it up until you feel comfortable. Its obvious when you're over doing it with anything.
Totally subscribe to this. :thumbsup:

By experience you know how far you can go and what are the benefits. I think I started out with L-Carnitine in the hundred mgs range some time ago, and steadily increased it to the 5-6 kilo mgs range where I'm at now.
 

Arzi75

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Still interested to hear who has "superdosed" and which supp?

EasyEJL just confessed to taking 12g of CLA, which I admire, as the 6-7 g I'm taking - and not even daily - sems like "superdosing" to me. :)

Any other experiences of "superdosing" with any other supps and what were your results like?

I'm very curious to learn all of your "superdosing secrets"! :D
 
EasyEJL

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That's interesting, I have always come across arginine "superdosing" schemes that are like "5g in the morning, 5g before your workout, 5g before you go to sleep etc." So, basically you are saying taking only 1600mg (8 x 200mg) a day can be more efficient than taking 15000mg (3 x 5000mg) a day?

Vit C I can take 8 x 200mg a day, but dosing L-Arginine only 8 x 200mg a day... Hmmm... I'm not so sure. :)

Or were you still elaborating on your vit C example here? :)
I was still elaborating on the vitamin c, but it really depends on a compound's half life or usable life in your system. I just happen to know vitamin c's as I was a lab tech for hoffman la roche in the 80s fresh out of high school. I was in their vitamin product r&d lab, and we worked on the formulation + testing for the sunkist chewable rolls (the ones like lifesavers). dosed at 60mg, meant to be able to pop 1 an hour to keep your vitamin c at max usable levels thru the day. 60mg evey hour keeps your system saturated, but 200mg every 2 is close (and easier to take in).

Superdrol for instance is 8 hours in bloodstream. But its action is different anyhow so 30mg of it once a day seems to have as much anabolic effect as 10mg every 8 hrs. But 90mg once a day would probably have a lower effect than 30mg every 8 hours, but probably either one would kill you within a week :D Its all about how much the body can use per hr combined with how long a single dose stays in bloodstream.

It would be interesting to start looking up some of the common ones and seeing if the data even exists. Stuff like the fish oils should have studies, but i'm not sure if there are good bioavailability ones on beta alanine for instance
 

Arzi75

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I just happen to know vitamin c's as I was a lab tech for hoffman la roche in the 80s fresh out of high school. I was in their vitamin product r&d lab, and we worked on the formulation + testing for the sunkist chewable rolls (the ones like lifesavers).
Hey, that is NEAT! :thumbsup:

I thought you've just been into software all your life (pls don't check my profile)! :D
 
EasyEJL

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Hey, that is NEAT! :thumbsup:

I thought you've just been into software all your life (pls don't check my profile)! :D
I have worked at so many different things, I just would up back at software because the other things all required too much effort for the money ;) For laughs i've been a

fast food employee
Lab Technician
commercial credit manager
"teaching parent" for a group home for autistic children
convenience store clerk
dispatcher for moving company

plus computer related ones :)
 

Arzi75

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I was still elaborating on the vitamin c, but it really depends on a compound's half life or usable life in your system. I just happen to know vitamin c's as I was a lab tech for hoffman la roche in the 80s fresh out of high school. I was in their vitamin product r&d lab, and we worked on the formulation + testing for the sunkist chewable rolls (the ones like lifesavers). dosed at 60mg, meant to be able to pop 1 an hour to keep your vitamin c at max usable levels thru the day. 60mg evey hour keeps your system saturated, but 200mg every 2 is close (and easier to take in).

Superdrol for instance is 8 hours in bloodstream. But its action is different anyhow so 30mg of it once a day seems to have as much anabolic effect as 10mg every 8 hrs. But 90mg once a day would probably have a lower effect than 30mg every 8 hours, but probably either one would kill you within a week :D Its all about how much the body can use per hr combined with how long a single dose stays in bloodstream.

It would be interesting to start looking up some of the common ones and seeing if the data even exists. Stuff like the fish oils should have studies, but i'm not sure if there are good bioavailability ones on beta alanine for instance
Thanks for your knowledge, EasyEJL - I think I'm learning more from just reading your posts than from reading books! :D

Great suff - I can tell you have been involved in teaching - I'm learning by the minute just glancing at your posts! :thumbsup:
 
EasyEJL

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Ok, so taking 5000mg of L-Arginine in a singe dose is not total waste or at least still possibly worth the effort?
I'm more a fan of some splitting if you are taking supps at other times anyhow. But i'm not sure on bioavailability of that, how long it takes for your liver/kidneys to scrub out what you take in. hmm interesting article

http://www.uspharmacist.com/NewLook/CE/larginine/lesson.htm

with doses and stuff, still no real half life on the l-arginine itself tho. I'll look some more later. But it shows studies done up to 30g a day of it :D
 
EasyEJL

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Hmm this seems to show a pretty short half life

http://grande.nal.usda.gov/ibids/index.php?mode2=detail&origin=ibids_references&therow=324991

under 2 hrs for l-arginine

just the last of each three is relevant, thats the 6g orally. Interesting that 6g orally lasted better than intravenous

Clearance was 544+/-24 (440-620), 894+/-164 (470-1190), and 1018+/-230 (710-2130) ml min(-1), and elimination half-life was calculated as 41.6+/-2.3 (34-55), 59.6+/-9.1 (24-98), and 79.5+/-9.3 (50-121) min, respectively, for 30 g i.v., 6 g i.v., and 6 g p.o. of L-arginine.
 
AnonyMoose

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depends on your actual body weight or the known toxicity of the supplement in relationship to the body.
 
Big BAMA

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I don't think superdosing is a good idea. Some things might be o.k. but too much of somethings could screw up your system. I also think you have to take body weight and make up into account when you look at the dosing for supps. A 150lb person will need a different amount than a 250lb person.
 

Arzi75

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I don't think superdosing is a good idea. Some things might be o.k. but too much of somethings could screw up your system. I also think you have to take body weight and make up into account when you look at the dosing for supps. A 150lb person will need a different amount than a 250lb person.
Ok, thanks Big BAMA! One of the points I was trying to make was just that that it is ok to go beyond the recommendations or even to "superdose" to factor in your individual weight etc. :)

Not sure though if you necessarily need to "superdose" just to compensate for your body weight and make-up. Still depends on how you want to define "superdosing" - does just exceeding the recommended dosage constitute superdosing or does it always mean "going overboard" or to the extremes.

Extremes are probably never that good, but just exceeding the recommendations to compensate for your weight or make-up, is def not, in my mind, going overboard in any way shape or form. :)

But still think even if you were to "superdose" in the sense that you'd like to double-dose or even go beyond that, I don't see nothing wrong with that if you know what you are doing. :thumbsup:
 

Arzi75

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Just noticed the relatively high % of people voting in the poll that they never have superdosed or never would superdose on any supp - that is quite surprising as I have always thought that everyone has at least tried superdosing with proteine at some point or the other, but I guess not. :)

And let me reiterate, in my mind - as we are not dealing with any set terminology here - by superdosing we can mean just taking more than what is recommended, going beyond that by taking x times the recommendation, or really going "overboard" by taking way more than what's recommended.

In the sense of avoiding going overboard, I understand the never answers, but frankly never ever exceeding the recommendations for supps, say, like multivits that are almost always underdosed, I do not get the point.

It's not like if you are not following the directions on a product label, you are breaking the law. Like Doc Packenwood explained in his post above, the directions on the labels are mostly what they are for LEGAL reasons - for the companies to cover their rear ends, not necessarily to ensure the optimum health benefits or best results if adhered to. IMO. :D
 
Big BAMA

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I think the reason I and most people don't Superdose is that at some point you are just making your piss expensive.
 
EasyEJL

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I'm the best there is, plain and simple. I mean, I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence. You know, nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a--just a big, hairy, American winning machine. If you ain't first, you're last! You know? You know what I mean?

Yeah, there is the point of diminishing returns. but for some nutrients the cost is so minimal that doubling the dose even if a lot goes down the drain it only costs a nickel a day more. For some like resveratrol, doubling the dose adds a dollar a day, so thats way more significant
 

Arzi75

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I think the reason I and most people don't Superdose is that at some point you are just making your piss expensive.
Well put, sir - THAT is why I want to find out what are people's experiences who HAVE superdosed - have they (you who have) noticed any benefits when going way beyond the recommended dosages or was it just like my first time taking MT's Leukic - just seeing your piss turning more yellow! :D

Geez, I could have painted the bowl yellow unless I had not aimed right in the water and avoided hitting the sides of the bowl at all costs when taking a leak while just taking the recommended dosage of MT's Leukic! :D

Yeah, I don't wanna shell out the $$$ to superdose on anything just to make my urine display all the colors of a rainbow! :D

I have and would like to superdose for the increased benefits, but there are so many things to consider like bioavailabilty, quality of the supp, possibly side effects and of course the cost-benefit ratio that the matter is never a simple question of "is it good or bad".

I think I have to rename this thread. :D
 
Big BAMA

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Well is the thing Most people have the mindset that if one is good two is better and Five would be awesome. Things is that is usually wrong. It seems like you might build up a tolerance sooner. The only thing I took more than what was recommended was Superdrol. And I loved it.
 

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Hey anyone ever tried "superdosing" Acetyl-L-Carnitine?

I have tried going up to 10000mg on the regular L-Carnitine, but for some reason feel hesitant about going that high on Alcar as it is touted being so much more powerfull than regular L-Carnitine despite the poorer absorption that has been related to the acetylated version.

I guess people have commonly gone up to 6000 mg a day, but anyone tried going closer to the 10g mark with Alcar?
 

Arzi75

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Supplements currently 'Megadosed' according to headline post example:

15g BCAA
10g Glutamine
450mg x 4 DHA
650mg x 4 EPA
I know there are guys who will disagree, but 2600 mg of EPA and 1800 mg of DHA sounds like MEGAdosing to me! :thumbsup:
 

Arzi75

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I just read an article on how too much fish oil can significantly decrease the amount of HDL in your blood... But once again no mention of what is too much.

I'd say up to 1500mg of EPA and 1000 of DHA is still ok, though, not to mess with your lipid (HDL/LDL) profile. I guess.
 
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Well I said no, but I guess on certain supplements I would "Superdose". Bulk powerfull I used to take 1.5- 2 Tablespoons per day....I wouldn't superdose for instance a drug or a stimulant, or a methylated steroid. Regular vitamins I would not "superdose". Most products I follow the recomendations on the bottle they are for safety.
 
Ronnie

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I mega dose RPM. I take 29 caps a day. My sperm produce more sperm.
 
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Hey anyone ever tried "superdosing" Acetyl-L-Carnitine?

I have tried going up to 10000mg on the regular L-Carnitine, but for some reason feel hesitant about going that high on Alcar as it is touted being so much more powerfull than regular L-Carnitine despite the poorer absorption that has been related to the acetylated version.

I guess people have commonly gone up to 6000 mg a day, but anyone tried going closer to the 10g mark with Alcar?
I took 9grams of ALCAR daily and lost a shed load of stubborn fat I had been plagued with for many years. It pretty much changed my body composition so I didn't have to worry too much about eating crap and piling the weight back on.
 
asianbabe

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Toom uch of anything could not only be unnecessary but dangerous.. work up to the recommended dosage, and if you're a bit heavier, maybe go for a little bit more, but I don't see any reason to exceed that. Your organs may get a hard time detoxifying itself from all the **** you put into it
 

Arzi75

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I took 9grams of ALCAR daily and lost a shed load of stubborn fat I had been plagued with for many years. It pretty much changed my body composition so I didn't have to worry too much about eating crap and piling the weight back on.
See, this what I'm talking about!

I noticed the same thing with regular L-Carnitine - taking the recommended 2-3g a day, never noticed anything where as taking a 8-10g a day, I def could notice my waistline getting slimmer.

:thumbsup:
 
T-Bone

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Toom uch of anything could not only be unnecessary but dangerous.. work up to the recommended dosage, and if you're a bit heavier, maybe go for a little bit more, but I don't see any reason to exceed that. Your organs may get a hard time detoxifying itself from all the **** you put into it
Excellent point!, my thoughts exactly!.:goodpost:
 
luke1984

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I don't really SUPERdose everything. But I do take higher dosages than recommended on the package. I'm a little over 200lbs right now so dosing a bit higher is ok when it comes to amino-acids or EFA's or something like that. I double dose some products. For example, I double dosed Bad Ass Mass, and I liked it, but I'm pretty sure the recommended dose wouldn't have done much for me.
 

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