[FitModel]

i'm currently on week 2 of my havoc PCT

Torm (120mgs first 5 day...now 60mgs for the remaining of my 30ml bottle)
Retain 2
Trib
ZMA

My libido is comming back very slowly but the boys don't seem to be bouncing back yet to full force/size....

what can I take to help this (preferably OTC supplements only)


I am considering :
Powerful
Fenugreek
Paravol
Diesel Test hardcore (tho it's a little pricy so probably not gonna get)

[Naven]

If you're already using Torm (expecting you have a script for it), why not use the best thing for bringing your nads back - HCG?

Granted, it's not OTC, but either is Torm.

I'm on HRT and I look forward to every 3rd day when I do my HCG injection - it *really* works.

[FitModel]

it's not prescription...

unfortunitly HCG will not be an option at the moment...however i'm still curious of what protocol (dosing etc.) you are using with the HCG as PCT...thanks

[Synicus]

Hmmmmmmm.

Torm worked for me very fast last Pheraplex cycle, boys back in 4-5 days, on Havoc now + Mega TRN not shutdown bad at all. MACA is very underrated as far as testicular mass, ie big balls, takes about 1 wk, but I think you need to take 8-12g per day. Get the MACA from board sponser (Nutra) or Root of the Matter by kilo or pound and take 12g per day, you'll be hangin low. I think you should start MACA 1 wk pre-PCT.

[Travis]

What about clomid? I know your looking for something OTC. I am sorta asking questions about this now in the PCT forum if your interested in taking a look.

[TheMyth]

I would also add in RPM to that stack for post cycle therapy because it will get your drive and energy back which ussually dies after a cycle. Here's 2 articles on Icarin, RPM's main ingredient, which shows that it can help with testosterone and erectile dysfunction (another side form cycles):

The testosterone mimetic properties of icariin.Zhang ZB, Yang QT.
Department of Urology, Second Affiliated Hospital, Shantou University Medical College, Shantou 515041, China. zbzhang@stu.edu.cn

AIM: To evaluate the testosterone mimetic properties of icariin. METHODS: Forty-eight healthy male Sprague-Dawley rats at the age of 15 months were randomly divided into four groups with 12 rats each: the control group (C), the model group (M), the icariin group (ICA) and the testosterone group (T). The reproductive system was damaged by cyclophosphamide (intraperitoneal injection, 20 mg/kg x day) for 5 consecutive days for groups M, ICA and T, at the sixth day, ICA (gastric gavage, 200 mg/kg x day) for the ICA group and sterandryl (subcutaneous injection, 5 mg/rat . day) for the T group for 7 consecutive days, respectively. The levels of serum testosterone, luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), serum bone Gla-protein (BGP) and tartrate-resistant acid phosphatase activity in serum (StrACP) were determined. The histological changes of the testis and the penis were observed by microscope with hematoxylin-eosin (HE) staining and terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase biotin-dUTP-X nick end labeling (TUNEL), respectively. RESULTS: (1) Icariin improved the condition of reproductive organs and increased the circulating levels of testosterone. (2) Icariin treatment also improved the steady-state serum BGP and might have promoted bone formation. At the same time, it decreased the serum levels of StrACP and might have reduced the bone resorption. (3) Icarrin suppressed the extent of apoptosis of penile cavernosal smooth muscle cells. CONCLUSION: Icariin has testosterone mimetic properties and has therapeutic potential in the management of hypoandrogenism.

PMID: 16751992 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[TheMyth]

And heres the other which can happen post cycle:


Antidepressant-like effect of icariin and its possible mechanism in mice.Pan Y, Kong L, Xia X, Zhang W, Xia Z, Jiang F.
State Key Laboratory of Pharmaceutical Biotechnology, Immunobiological Laboratory, Institute of Functional Biomolecule, Nanjing University, PR China.

The behavioral, neurochemical and neuroendocrine effects of icariin isolated from Epimedium brevicornum were investigated in behavioral despair models of KunMing strain of male mice. Icariin was found to significantly shorten immobility time in the forced swimming test (FST) after orally administration for 21 consecutive days. Icarrin also produced a marked reduction in immobility time in the tail suspension test (TST) when administered for at least 7 consecutive days. The preferable antidepressant action by icariin was obtained at 17.5 and 35 mg/kg in the present study. Moreover, it was observed that the stress of FST exposure induced increases in brain monoamine oxidase (MAO) A and B activities, serum corticotropin-releasing factor (CRF) levels, as well as decreases in brain monoamine neurotransmitter levels. Treatment of icariin for 21 consecutive days mainly reversed the above effects in the mouse FST. These results suggested that icarrin possessed potent antidepressant-like properties that were mediated via neurochemical and neuroendocrine systems.

PMID: 16380159 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[TheMyth]

And for the ED:


Effects of icariin on erectile function and expression of nitric oxide synthase isoforms in castrated rats.Liu WJ, Xin ZC, Xin H, Yuan YM, Tian L, Guo YL.
Andrology Center of Peking University First Hospital, Beijing 100009, China.

AIM: To investigate the effect of icariin on erectile function and the expression of nitric oxide synthase (NOS) isoforms in castrated rats. METHODS: Thirty-two adult male Wistar rats were randomly divided into one sham-operated group (A) and three castrated groups (B, C and D). One week after surgery, rats were treated with normal saline (groups A and B) or oral icariin (1 mg/[kg.day] for group C and 5 mg/[kg.day] for group D) for 4 weeks. One week after treatment, the erectile function of the rats was assessed by measuring intracavernosal pressure (ICP) during electrostimulation of the cavernosal nerve. The serum testosterone (ST) levels, the percent of smooth muscle (PSM) in trabecular tissue, and the expression of mRNA and proteins of neuronal nitric oxide synthase (nNOS), inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS), endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) and phosphodiesterase V (PDE5) in corpus cavernosum (CC) were also evaluated. RESULTS: ICP, PSM, ST and the expression of nNOS, iNOS, eNOS and PDE5 were significantly decreased in group B compared with those in group A (P 0.01). However, ICP, PSM and the expression of nNOS and iNOS were increased in groups C and D compared with those in group B (P 0.05). Changes in ST and the expression of eNOS and PDE5 were not significant (P 0.05) in groups C and D compared with those in group B. CONCLUSION: Oral treatment with icariin ( 98.6 % purity) for 4 weeks potentially improves erectile function. This effect is correlated with an increase in PSM and the expression of certain NOS in the CC of castrated rats. These results suggest that icariin may have a therapeutic effect on erectile dysfunction.

PMID: 16281085 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[heebs10]

myth, did u just become an Applied Nut. rep or have u been one? just curious, i never noticed it before.

[TheMyth]

Just became one man! I know, its hard to take your pics off my girl!

[heebs10]

haha, yeah i just saw it posted on the app nut forum. good stuff man, its one of my favorite companies

[TheMyth]

Same here!

[ThisGuy02]

Yeah, dude. Maca kicks @ss. Give it a shot. You'll be glad you did.

[musclemilk40]

test drive from est, trib, maca, zinc longfolia.......make you all better

out

[ThisGuy02]

You know what? Vitrix, Trib and Maca are actually a pretty nice combo, now that I think about it. I did that during standard pct a couple cycles ago and it worked WONDERS.