Epistane/Havoc Help

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    Epistane/Havoc Help


    I am thinking of doing an EPI and Havoc stack within the next 2 weeks but need some more information about it, preferably from those who have taken it or are currently taking it. My main questions are:

    1) Should I take both of these supplements together for the best strength and mass gains? Or should I take one for the first part and one for the last part of cycle?

    2) I have read several reviews about this cycle and haven't come to a clear answer about PCT. What PCT would be needed for this stack? What would be the best SERM if needed.. nolva?

    3) For those who have taken this, what cycle did you use or do you think would retain the best gains? The pulse or the hardcore stack?

    4) According to the EPI website, along with their recommended PCT they add in x-lean. I'm assuming this is something similar to Retain from AX on their stack. Any thoughts on this product?

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    I am going to stack D-bol with Methandrostenolone.... so there.

    For real though, most say the best SERM for PCT is toremifene.
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    Read this for your pct questions:

    No Excuses & No ***** ***: A Stupid People's Guide to PCT

    As far as the X-Lean yes is is similar to AX's Retain, however I have not looked at the primary ingredient. But both are designed to reduce cortisol.
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    1. No do NOT stack both Havoc and Epistane together, they are the "same" compound / methyl PH. Do one or the other, your choice.

    2. If you are going to run a straight cycle then you will most definitely need a post cycle therapy, read the above guide.

    3. If you are going to run it, ramp up / down if you can i.e. Week 1, 10mg first day, 20mg second day until end of second week, third week 30mg, fourth week 40mg. I wouldn't recommend going higher though some do. Cissus is a beneficial supplement to have on hand as well.

    4. 40mg seems to be the sweet spot with EPI not sure about Havoc.

    5. There are many many threads here for Epistane Go Search > Advanced search > Input Epistane or Havoc > Change drop down box to "Search titles only"

    6. Make sure you have researched thoroughly before you begin a cycle.

    7. Make sure you get bloodwork done before starting so you know the true state of your help / hormone / blood / liver health - you don't want to fck up your health for the rest of your days, Livers aren't cheap

    8. Do you have your diet down? What is your workout program like? how long have you been lifting? Have you maxed out your natural potential?

    9. PCT = Nolva or Torimefene

    10. Cycle support / or Liver support pre cycle and all the way through.

    There are many who can help you here, also you might be interested in pulsing. There is a thread in my signature that you can read and get help on.

    Have fun and play safe, live long,

    Neoborn
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoborn View Post
    1. No do NOT stack both Havoc and Epistane together, they are the "same" compound / methyl PH. Do one or the other, your choice.

    2. If you are going to run a straight cycle then you will most definitely need a post cycle therapy, read the above guide.

    3. If you are going to run it, ramp up / down if you can i.e. Week 1, 10mg first day, 20mg second day until end of second week, third week 30mg, fourth week 40mg. I wouldn't recommend going higher though some do. Cissus is a beneficial supplement to have on hand as well.

    4. 40mg seems to be the sweet spot with EPI not sure about Havoc.

    5. There are many many threads here for Epistane Go Search > Advanced search > Input Epistane or Havoc > Change drop down box to "Search titles only"

    6. Make sure you have researched thoroughly before you begin a cycle.

    7. Make sure you get bloodwork done before starting so you know the true state of your help / hormone / blood / liver health - you don't want to fck up your health for the rest of your days, Livers aren't cheap

    8. Do you have your diet down? What is your workout program like? how long have you been lifting? Have you maxed out your natural potential?

    9. post cycle therapy = Nolva or Torimefene

    10. Cycle support / or Liver support pre cycle and all the way through.

    There are many who can help you here, also you might be interested in pulsing. There is a thread in my signature that you can read and get help on.

    Have fun and play safe, live long,

    Neoborn
    Yeah, I realized that they were the same compound after I had already posted. I saw a stack where someone took Havoc for 4 weeks then EPI for the next 4 or something of the like and it threw me off. I plan to research and come up with a schedule and diet within the week. Also after doing lots of research on just EPI tonight I think I am going to just do the pulse cycle proposed by Dr. D that you are talking about. Most gains seen during that phase seemed to be around 6-8 lbs and that is right in my target area for the next few weeks as I am trying to peak just over 200lbs while maintaining current BF %. Thanks for your help, I'll take a look at a few more logs and get some more info before I commit to anything.
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    7. Make sure you get bloodwork done before starting so you know the true state of your help / hormone / blood / liver health - you don't want to fck up your health for the rest of your days, Livers aren't cheap
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    my suggestion, pick one (and it should be epi) and stay with it. don't mix the two together.
  

  
 

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