test booster comes closest to 200mgs Test p/w?

[json75]

From what I know most test boosters are aromatase inhibtors. The ones that work anyhow, not trib, longjack ect....

In terms of numbers, the average man produces about the equivalency of 100mgs injected test per week.

I just saw an add for nolvadex XT claiming that it increases test by 300%.

Here's the thing.....When I take 200mgs of test per week I literally blow up! Like I get huge fast, I rarely ever go over 200mgs because of the sides.

I know there is no real definate answere, but lets just take a product like rebound reloaded stacked with Activate.

Again in terms of numbers, with this stack are we getting close to maybe 200mgs test per week?

I've taken RR by itself a year ago, I didn't get nearly as big as I do on just 1cc test p/w.........probobly due to no estro tho.

 

[same_old]

I've taken RR by itself a year ago, I didn't get nearly as big as I do on just 1cc test p/w.........probobly due to no estro tho.

bingo.

 

[jasonschaffin]

Fenotest had some really good lab results posted lately. Thinking something like:

8 Weeks of Omega T-Force w/Fenotest and Anagen
8 Weeks of Omega T-Force w/Activate or MassFX

 

[json75]

Basically, thats what im looking for...hard numbers.

Someone did a log awhile back on the hyperdrol/mass FX cycle and was very disappointed when he had his test levels done. This guy (Pu12...) never posted his test levels not wanting to stir up any trouble, but you could imagine he wasn't at all impressed.

Like I said Novedex XT, in their add claimed that 3 independent clinical studies showed a 300% increase in test levels after 4 weeks of product use.

Im wondering if all AI's including cheap "Chemical Research" kinds are as good, if not better than these otc kinds......

 

[wontdie]

Forget about testing or getting hard numbers!:donut:

Just work the placebo effect to the max!

Just believe all the BS that the manufacturers cr*p out of their mouths, and the hype that comes out with every new supplement, which then mysteriously dies away.

But, I must say that I do enjoy the effects of Nettle Root Extract,and Rhodiola Rosea and Avena Sativa a lot.

 

[pistonpump]

the only way to find out is if more people do blood tests after and during the use of these products or compounds.

if estrogen needs to be present then maybe a SERM with really effective test boosters could give you 2x normal test numbers.

 

[bearmeat]

Low dose clomiphene citrate for extended periods of time (12 months) has been shown to be safe. There's a lot of research on the effects of clomid on men which is another benefit. A lot of these "new" AI's lack research. Here is one abstract (you can find the rest ) :



Clomiphene Citrate Effects on Testosterone/Estrogen Ratio in Male Hypogonadism
J Sex Med 2005;2:716–721.

ABSTRACT

Aim. Symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism is associated not only with a decline in serum testosterone, but also with a rise in serum estradiol. These endocrine changes negatively affect libido, sexual function, mood, behavior, lean body mass, and bone density. Currently, the most common treatment is exogenous testostosterone therapy. This treatment can be associated with skin irritation, gynecomastia, nipple tenderness, testicular atrophy, and decline in sperm counts. In this study we investigated the efficacy of clomiphene citrate in the treatment of hypogonadism with the objectives of raising endogenous serum testosterone (T) and improving the testosterone/estrogen (T/E) ratio.

Methods. Our cohort consisted of 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism defined as serum testosterone level less than 300 ng/dL. Each patient was treated with a daily dose of 25 mg clomiphene citrate and followed prospectively. Analysis of baseline and follow-up serum levels of testosterone and estradiol levels were performed.

Results. The mean age was 39 years, and the mean pretreatment testosterone and estrogen levels were 247.6 ± 39.8 ng/dL and 32.3 ± 10.9, respectively. By the first follow-up visit (4–6 weeks), the mean testosterone level rose to 610.0 ± 178.6 ng/dL (P < 0.00001). Moreover, the T/E ratio improved from 8.7 to 14.2 (P < 0.001). There were no side effects reported by the patients.

Conclusions. Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estadiol ratio in men with hypogonadism. This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway.

 

[pistonpump]

:goodpost:

 

[poison]

I thought clomid had some nasty sides?

 

[same_old]

I thought clomid had some nasty sides?

i dont mind clomid at all, especially when dosed low. i notice no sides @ 25mg.

 

[json75]

Also, Aromasin has been shown to cause androgenic side effects, and cause an increase in IGF-1 levels.

 

[same_old]

Also, Aromasin has been shown to cause androgenic side effects, and cause an increase in IGF-1 levels.

really? androgenicity from aromasin, other than what comes from the natural test increase that results from the AI action?

what have you heard?

 

[Mass_69]

Low dose clomiphene citrate for extended periods of time (12 months) has been shown to be safe. There's a lot of research on the effects of clomid on men which is another benefit. A lot of these "new" AI's lack research. Here is one abstract (you can find the rest ) :



Clomiphene Citrate Effects on Testosterone/Estrogen Ratio in Male Hypogonadism
J Sex Med 2005;2:716–721.

ABSTRACT

Aim. Symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism is associated not only with a decline in serum testosterone, but also with a rise in serum estradiol. These endocrine changes negatively affect libido, sexual function, mood, behavior, lean body mass, and bone density. Currently, the most common treatment is exogenous testostosterone therapy. This treatment can be associated with skin irritation, gynecomastia, nipple tenderness, testicular atrophy, and decline in sperm counts. In this study we investigated the efficacy of clomiphene citrate in the treatment of hypogonadism with the objectives of raising endogenous serum testosterone (T) and improving the testosterone/estrogen (T/E) ratio.

Methods. Our cohort consisted of 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism defined as serum testosterone level less than 300 ng/dL. Each patient was treated with a daily dose of 25 mg clomiphene citrate and followed prospectively. Analysis of baseline and follow-up serum levels of testosterone and estradiol levels were performed.

Results. The mean age was 39 years, and the mean pretreatment testosterone and estrogen levels were 247.6 ± 39.8 ng/dL and 32.3 ± 10.9, respectively. By the first follow-up visit (4–6 weeks), the mean testosterone level rose to 610.0 ± 178.6 ng/dL (P < 0.00001). Moreover, the T/E ratio improved from 8.7 to 14.2 (P < 0.001). There were no side effects reported by the patients.

Conclusions. Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estadiol ratio in men with hypogonadism. This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway.

Don't get me wrong, Clomid is great for increasing testosterone, but it probably won't produce the same results as 200mgs test/week (presumably in non-hypogonadal men). You would probably need to take a much higher dose than 25mg/day to achieve this, and then you deal with the side-effects coming into play. I do recall reading somewhere before that higher doses of Clomid over too long a period of time will actually have the opposite effect (i'm pretty sure it was negative testosterone feedback).

 

[bearmeat]

Don't get me wrong, Clomid is great for increasing testosterone, but it probably won't produce the same results as 200mgs test/week (presumably in non-hypogonadal men). You would probably need to take a much higher dose than 25mg/day to achieve this, and then you deal with the side-effects coming into play. I do recall reading somewhere before that higher doses of Clomid over too long a period of time will actually have the opposite effect (i'm pretty sure it was negative testosterone feedback).

This is for 12 months and the dose was pretty high at 100mg/day. There were no opposite effects over this 12 month period. The last one is for 3 months:

---------------------------------------------------
Restoration of plasma testosterone levels in uremic men with clomiphene citrate

VS Lim and VS Fang

Five men with chronic renal failure and symptoms suggestive to androgen deficiency were treated with clomiphene citrate (Clomid) at a dose of 100 mg/day for a period of 5 to 12 months. The treatment resulted uniformly in increased libido, sexual potency, and a general sense of well-being. Circulating testosterone rose from mean basal value of 223 +/- 164 to 879 +/- 171 ng/dl (superdrol), representing a mean increment of 290%. Mean serum lutenizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) values before treatment were 76 +/- 40 and 143 +/- 85 ng/ml (superdrol). During treatment, both LH and FSH increased dramatically to 518 +/- 302 and 787 +/- 291 ng/ml (superdrol), respectively. Both serum gonadotropin values are expressed as ng/ml of LER 907. The effect of clomiphene on spermatogenesis in these subjects was inconclusive as either improvement or deterioration occured. In these five patients, serum prolactin was not related in any way to testicular function as its values were consistently in the normal range throughout the entire study period. Serum total estrogen, however, was elevated in all; the significance of this high circulating estrogen in relation to gonadal dysfunction in uremia is not clear at the present time. However, we found that normalization of circulating androgen was beneficial to our patients and that long-term clomiphene treatment achieved this goal by increasing pituitary gonadotropin secretion and secondarily stimulating testicular hormonogenesis.
---------------------------------------------------

Clomiphene citrate administration to normogonadotropic subfertile men: blood hormone changes and activation of acid phosphatase in seminal fluid.

Ronnberg L, Vihko P, Sajanti E, Vihko R.

Clomiphene citrate was administered as a 50 mg oral daily dose to 44 normogonadotrophic (serum FSH 2-10 mIU/ml) subfertile men for 3 months. The treatment resulted in significant increases in FSH and LH concentrations, whereas prolactin remained unchanged. Serum testosterone and oestradiol both increased highly significantly. The increased testosterone levels suggest that the elevated LH levels had not led to "down regulation" of Leydig cell LH/hCG receptors, neither had the greatly increased estradiol led to depletion of these receptors. This is suggested to be a result of the blocking of testicular oestradiol receptors by the estrogen antagonist, clomiphene.

 

[jasonschaffin]

[No message]

 

[jasonschaffin]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/designer-supplements/52569-nha-blood-tests.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/designer-supplements/52569-nha-blood-tests.html

 

[Mass_69]

This is for 12 months and the dose was pretty high at 100mg/day. There were no opposite effects over this 12 month period. The last one is for 3 months:

Good find on the 100mg study. Most studies are for 50mg/day. The testosterone levels were still in the normal range (albeit high-normal), and probably not equivilant to 200mg test/week.

I don't know how they came away reporting no negative sides after a year at 100mg/day... 50mg/day for 2 weeks makes me want to talk about my feelings and maybe bake cookies But the wood comes back nicely.

 

[Synicus]

Forget about testing or getting hard numbers!:donut:

Just work the placebo effect to the max!

Just believe all the BS that the manufacturers cr*p out of their mouths, and the hype that comes out with every new supplement, which then mysteriously dies away.

But, I must say that I do enjoy the effects of Nettle Root Extract,and Rhodiola Rosea and Avena Sativa a lot.

^^^word. The Land of Hype $$$$$.

Of all the 10s or dozens I've tried Nettle Root Extract may be my fave too. That, or Maca, I'm talkin 10g a day or more.

 

[json75]

Go to Mesomorphasis and look for their Aromisin profile, very interesting read.

Also, from some investigating i've been doing on testosterone, I read that the average man produces the equivalency of 50mg testosterone p/d, the problem is keeping that test from being converted and unbound.

I believe that you have to live within your means....as far as muscle goes.

Almost whatever you gain from a steroid/prohomone cylce will be lost if you can't maintain at least 150-200mgs of test.......this is just from my experience with lifting and training and AA usage over the years.

The trick is to find a way to make your body do this without injecting synthetic test......

 

[same_old]

Almost whatever you gain from a steroid/prohomone cylce will be lost if you can't maintain at least 150-200mgs of test.......this is just from my experience with lifting and training and AA usage over the years.

The trick is to find a way to make your body do this without injecting synthetic test......

i know i speak for alot of people when i say that many of our experiences are quite different. if my diet stays solid, i retain my cycle gains indefinitely. weight goes up and down based on water and glycogen and fat, but my strength gains have always stayed [close], and my pertinent muscle dimensions remain (upper arm, chest, neck, etc...cant speak for legs as my sore knees prevent alot of serious leg work)

 

[json75]

i know i speak for alot of people when i say that many of our experiences are quite different. if my diet stays solid, i retain my cycle gains indefinitely. weight goes up and down based on water and glycogen and fat, but my strength gains have always stayed [close], and my pertinent muscle dimensions remain (upper arm, chest, neck, etc...cant speak for legs as my sore knees prevent alot of serious leg work)

This reaction comes up quite a bit and I dont no why.

When the anabolic/androgenic drug leaves your body so will some of the gains that the drug provided....yes you can maintain some gains, but not all, this goes without saying.
Nutrition and diet and training will not alone allow you to keep all that the potent anabolic androgenic drug initiated, eventually you'll go back down to where your body genetically wants you to be.

I see people in my gym blow up and come down all the time, honestly I'm embarressed for them, but to talk to them they'll tell me that their maintaining and that their pct is solid, however one look tells otherwise.

Steroids to me are like NOS for a car, when the juice runs out, thats it....

Also, I agree you can keep strength, I have, and I've improved. You may maintain what the scale tells you, however your body comp will look alot different.