Creatine

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    Creatine


    Does creatine lose its affect if i do not cycle it on and off?

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    I cycle 3 days on, 3 days off. About 20 grams split into 5 doses throughout the day and 0 on off days. There are studies that show that in a matter of weeks, the "maintenence dose" of creatine loses it's effect and the total musle creatine levels decrease.

    References:
    1. Volek et al. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 31: 1147-1156, 1999.

    2. Cribb et al. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 35: S400, A2239, 2003

    3. Cribb et al. Presented at The Australian Association of Exercise and Sports Science Conference, April, 2004

    4. Guerrero-Ontivers, M.L. and Wallimann, T. Molecular and Cellular Biochemistry. 184: 427-437, 1998.

    5. Van Loon et al. Clinical Science 104:153–162. 2003
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    definately need to cycle creatine. i find the longer i stay off creatine the better the results i get when i go back on it:bb3:
    i normally like to run creatine with a natural test boosting supp like blue up or diesel test for 5 weeks then two weeks off then hitting usp labs powerfull for about 5 weeks, take 2 weeks off then back to the creatine natural test supp
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    can also try repeating the loading phase after a cycle and then continuing for another cycle with no break.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince spider View Post
    definately need to cycle creatine. i find the longer i stay off creatine the better the results i get when i go back on it
    Really? I thought the whole reason it needs to be cycled was kidney strain. I dont understand why it would lose its effectiveness unless theres receptors that desensitize.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EctoPower View Post
    I cycle 3 days on, 3 days off. About 20 grams split into 5 doses throughout the day and 0 on off days. There are studies that show that in a matter of weeks, the "maintenence dose" of creatine loses it's effect and the total musle creatine levels decrease.
    Very interesting, do you use creatine HSC aswell?
    And have you seen a big diffrence with this method?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
    Very interesting, do you use creatine HSC aswell?
    And have you seen a big diffrence with this method?
    Yes, and yes. I use ON Pre-load pre and post workout. It's about the same as Creatine HSC and I felt it worked much better than creatine alone.
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    well have you seen less gains from when you first started using creatine? if so cycling it will probly help you get those big gains back. but if you keep seeing constant gains then you dont need to cycle it. cycles i suggest (courtesy of Dr. X from BN):

    20 grams for one month straight divided into four 5 gram doses while taking 2 weeks off in between cycles.
    10 grams after working out every day for 6 weeks and then taking 2 weeks off.
    5 grams after working out every day for 8 weeks and then taking 2 weeks off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EctoPower View Post
    Yes, and yes. I use ON Pre-load pre and post workout. It's about the same as Creatine HSC and I felt it worked much better than creatine alone.
    Cool, does it have creatine in it?

    What does your regimen look like?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
    Cool, does it have creatine in it?

    What does your regimen look like?
    6g of creatine monohydrate per serving. 34g of dextrose. Some other stuff too, but these are the main players.

    I take 1 scoop of pre-load in my pre-workout shake, 1 scoop of pre-load in my post-workout shake and two separate 5g servings of regular creatine mono later in the day. Starting tomorrow, I will move the third serving of creatine into the 3 hour window following my morning workout and the last serving of the day will be in the early evening. It's important not to use the pre-load for all 4 servings. You don't want all that sugar later in the day, just right before and right after lifting. That means buying two types of creatine (one pure, one w/ dextrose), but they'll both last longer, so it evens out in the end.

    Give it a try! Everybody is different, but I like this method a lot. Good luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EctoPower View Post
    6g of creatine monohydrate per serving. 34g of dextrose. Some other stuff too, but these are the main players.

    I take 1 scoop of pre-load in my pre-workout shake, 1 scoop of pre-load in my post-workout shake and two separate 5g servings of regular creatine mono later in the day. Starting tomorrow, I will move the third serving of creatine into the 3 hour window following my morning workout and the last serving of the day will be in the early evening. It's important not to use the pre-load for all 4 servings. You don't want all that sugar later in the day, just right before and right after lifting. That means buying two types of creatine (one pure, one w/ dextrose), but they'll both last longer, so it evens out in the end.

    Give it a try! Everybody is different, but I like this method a lot. Good luck.
    Thanks.
    I went to some site which is were they cited those studies you mentioned, and it said 3 days on 3 days off, but what confused me was it said on the off days to use creatine HSC instead which sorta defeats the purpose of taking 3 off days, I think it was to just sell more of the product.
    http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=243
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
    Thanks.
    I went to some site which is were they cited those studies you mentioned, and it said 3 days on 3 days off, but what confused me was it said on the off days to use creatine HSC instead which sorta defeats the purpose of taking 3 off days, I think it was to just sell more of the product.
    http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=243
    Yep, that's where I learned about it. But it says this:

    "No creatine supplement is used for the next three days. On these “non-creatine” days, substitute DGC for Creatine HSC during workouts. "

    DGC is Dextratory Glucose Crystals. Another option for this is Gatorade. Get the powder and add it to your pre and post workout shake. It has the same effect as the dextrose in the Creatine HSC or ON Pre-Load, but without the creatine.

    Good luck man, I hope it works well for you!
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    Quote Originally Posted by EctoPower View Post
    Yep, that's where I learned about it. But it says this:

    "No creatine supplement is used for the next three days. On these “non-creatine” days, substitute DGC for Creatine HSC during workouts. "

    DGC is Dextratory Glucose Crystals. Another option for this is Gatorade. Get the powder and add it to your pre and post workout shake. It has the same effect as the dextrose in the Creatine HSC or ON Pre-Load, but without the creatine.

    Good luck man, I hope it works well for you!
    I am reading alot that you only need 10grams per day of creatine, how much do you weigh and have you tried doing 10 grams per day?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
    I am reading alot that you only need 10grams per day of creatine, how much do you weigh and have you tried doing 10 grams per day?
    I weigh 182.5 as of yesterday. The creatine cycling that I do essentially calls for "loading phase" type dosing on those three days, which is 20-25g. That fully loads your muscles and keeps your creatine levels at an effective level for the three days that you take no creatine. Then you load again for three days at 20-25g per day. IMO 10g per day for three days and then no creatine for 3 days would not be effective. I don't think that you would get enough creatine into your muscles to last 3 days without.

    I'm no expert on this stuff, but I follow the method exactly as described on ast-ss.com and it has worked better for me than any other creatine strategy I've found. The only way you'll know if it works for you is if you try it.

    Also, people saying you only need 10g per day are probably not cycling their creatine. If you just took 10g of creatine mono per day, everyday, it would probably work well for awhile. But eventually your creatine stores will drop off and not get replenished to an effective level and you'll have a noticeable decrease in strength.
    Last edited by EctoPower; 07-13-2007 at 09:30 AM. Reason: Added something.
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    i love creatine
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    Quote Originally Posted by EctoPower View Post
    I weigh 182.5 as of yesterday. The creatine cycling that I do essentially calls for "loading phase" type dosing on those three days, which is 20-25g. That fully loads your muscles and keeps your creatine levels at an effective level for the three days that you take no creatine. Then you load again for three days at 20-25g per day. IMO 10g per day for three days and then no creatine for 3 days would not be effective. I don't think that you would get enough creatine into your muscles to last 3 days without.

    I'm no expert on this stuff, but I follow the method exactly as described on ast-ss.com and it has worked better for me than any other creatine strategy I've found. The only way you'll know if it works for you is if you try it.

    Also, people saying you only need 10g per day are probably not cycling their creatine. If you just took 10g of creatine mono per day, everyday, it would probably work well for awhile. But eventually your creatine stores will drop off and not get replenished to an effective level and you'll have a noticeable decrease in strength.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to EctoPower again.


    Quote Originally Posted by SirRyanM View Post
    i love creatine
    I love creatine too, well its a love hate relationship, and it involves my toilet somewhere in the picture.
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    I personally cycle pretty much everything except protein, multi, and fish oils. I like to give my body breaks from everything to 1) reduce my dependency and tolenance to it and 2) keep my system to constantly being flooded for health reason of my kidneys/liver. But that's just me.
    I'm also not a huge fan of the loading phase of 20-30g of creatine mono b/c most of it ends up in the toilet for me.

    I typically go:
    1 week at 10-15g - split 3 times a day
    1-3 months at 5-7g split 2 times a day
    1-2 months off

    That seems to work for me and keeps the gains coming. I hate that first 2 weeks off creatine though, when you lose that pump and feel like a pansy...lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNinja View Post
    I personally cycle pretty much everything except protein, multi, and fish oils. I like to give my body breaks from everything to 1) reduce my dependency and tolenance to it and 2) keep my system to constantly being flooded for health reason of my kidneys/liver. But that's just me.
    I'm also not a huge fan of the loading phase of 20-30g of creatine mono b/c most of it ends up in the toilet for me.

    I typically go:
    1 week at 10-15g - split 3 times a day
    1-3 months at 5-7g split 2 times a day
    1-2 months off

    That seems to work for me and keeps the gains coming. I hate that first 2 weeks off creatine though, when you lose that pump and feel like a pansy...lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNinja View Post
    I personally cycle pretty much everything except protein, multi, and fish oils. I like to give my body breaks from everything to 1) reduce my dependency and tolenance to it and 2) keep my system to constantly being flooded for health reason of my kidneys/liver. But that's just me.
    I'm also not a huge fan of the loading phase of 20-30g of creatine mono b/c most of it ends up in the toilet for me.

    I typically go:
    1 week at 10-15g - split 3 times a day
    1-3 months at 5-7g split 2 times a day
    1-2 months off

    That seems to work for me and keeps the gains coming. I hate that first 2 weeks off creatine though, when you lose that pump and feel like a pansy...lol
    whoah.. I love Ninjas!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    whoah.. I love Ninjas!!!
    it's because we are mammals and have the ability to remain stealthy but also pork a ton of women while wailing on guitars in our dojos. If fact I'm going to go fingerpick a 80s ballad right now and not even think twice about it.
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    I see you're up to speed on "the real ultimate power"

    i seriously love ninjas.
  

  
 

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