[SXULB52]

I'm still on the fence about CEE, but the study uses HCL at pH 1, however in the stomach the HCL becomes diluted and pH is around 2-3, which may have a difference on the conversion. Just a thought.

[bLacKjAck.]

Originally Posted by Sir Savage

Here's my take on CEE-

The concurrent claims of increased stability AND absorption for CEE have never made sense to me. After all, if it absorbs quicker (and therefore metabolizes quicker) how could it be more STABLE at the same time?

To me, all this study shows is that these two qualities are indeed at odds with each other, with the faster absorption coming out on top.

This study doesn't mean that CEE is "bunk". In fact, it may mean that it would be particularly useful for when fast absorption is needed. Say, post-workout.

In other words, this research really isn't all that unexpected (especially in such a low pH- lower than the stomach). If CEE absorbs and metabolizes quicker, then we would expect to see higher levels of creatinine.

Nice post....never thought of the idea of maybe using CEE post-workout. Not convinced really...I have been researching this a lot lately...my descriptive thoughts are still to come...good point though.

[CDB]

Originally Posted by bLacKjAck.

Nice post....never thought of the idea of maybe using CEE post-workout. Not convinced really...I have been researching this a lot lately...my descriptive thoughts are still to come...good point though.

Here's what I say. Take all the different kinds of creatine. Figure out the effective dose of each type. Create a mix so an effective dose of every type is included in one dose of the mixed product with a metric assload of glucose included, and market that as the Let'sThrow****attheWallabol.

[thesinner]

Originally Posted by CDB

Here's what I say. Take all the different kinds of creatine. Figure out the effective dose of each type. Create a mix so an effective dose of every type is included in one dose of the mixed product with a metric assload of glucose included, and market that as the Let'sThrow****attheWallabol.

Don't they already make that?

[V00D00]

Originally Posted by thesinner

Don't they already make that?

yeah I know we do ... but honestly the only reason I ever use creatine is for water retention/back pump reduction. I'm less than impressed by results of the stuff.. I'm too ADD for my own good.

[Flaw]

monohydrate always sent me to the rest room after working out and gave me terrible gas. I don't know if this was the brands I was taking or just that version of creatine all together. CEE seemed like my only option and i've been using it for over a year. I feel it works good for me. Like some have said I got some great pumps the first 2 weeks of using it again after a cycle and then they wear off but i feel the strength gains are still there. Especially mixed with carb powder. I've had labs and my creatinine levels were always normal. I don't know.. it's just one study..

Any better options than monohydrate that won't give the stomach discomfort?

[ShakesAllDay]

Originally Posted by Flaw

monohydrate always sent me to the rest room after working out and gave me terrible gas. I don't know if this was the brands I was taking or just that version of creatine all together.

How were you ingesting your CM? I find that if I take CM w/ only carbs (like Cell-Tech type stuff), I get instant fire-butt.

But, if I add it to a protein shake, it's all good.

[Flaw]

Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay

How were you ingesting your CM? I find that if I take CM w/ only carbs (like Cell-Tech type stuff), I get instant fire-butt.

But, if I add it to a protein shake, it's all good.

it was added to ON's whey shake.

[jmh80]

Hell - monohydrate sends me to the sh*tter DURING my workout. Forget after (that's a given).

[bodybybrad]

Originally Posted by Jayhawkk

Got to love tried and true methods but it's hard not to try something new and see for yourself. Placebo does wonders too though Thanks for ****ing with my reality!

haha no kidding i used to tell people it was placebo and they wouldnt listen.

[whitedevil74]

Originally Posted by strategicmove

Thanks for this information. It completely neutralizes the entire hype behind Creatine Ethyl Ester. While "old" Creatine Monohydrate may be "boring", some athletes swear by it, indicating that its impact might depend on the consumer's physiology.
Some of us that fall within the category of creatine(-monohydrate) non-responders prefer creatine bonded with Alpha-Keto-Glucarate, or creatine as Kre-Alkalyn, or Tri-Creatine Orotate. These advanced forms appear to deliver superior and consistent results.

Actually their study showed Kre-Alk was inferior to mono as well. oooopss. Ten times better my booty.

[whitedevil74]

Originally Posted by Flaw

monohydrate always sent me to the rest room after working out and gave me terrible gas. I don't know if this was the brands I was taking or just that version of creatine all together. CEE seemed like my only option and i've been using it for over a year. I feel it works good for me. Like some have said I got some great pumps the first 2 weeks of using it again after a cycle and then they wear off but i feel the strength gains are still there. Especially mixed with carb powder. I've had labs and my creatinine levels were always normal. I don't know.. it's just one study..

Any better options than monohydrate that won't give the stomach discomfort?

Micronized Creapure, like powdered sugar. Also you only need about 3 grams a day, the old recommendations regarding dosage were largely responsible for the bloating and digestion issues.

[celc5]

Originally Posted by CDB

How long does creatine of any kind stay in the stomach? It was my understanding any meal taken in in a chyme or liquid state went on to the intestines pretty fast, 20 minutes or so. So unless you're eating creatine cookies, it should travel fairly quickly to your intestines where bile and bicarbonate and what not raise the PH and absorption begins rather quickly, correct?

Not sure if fast or sustained absorption is the goal here. But, to simply add to the topic:

MLO makes "Xtreme" protein bars that have 5g CM in it. They're like a buck at good ol Wal Mart. Tastes great and, for me personally, gives me just as good results as bulk CM.

[fritzer]

you dont bloat on CEE because it doesnt work. How the hell are people still on the fence about this crap. I am gonna bust this out!

1) Firstly, there is no need to “attach” an ester group to the creatine molecule. Nothing suggests that this attachment will make creatine any more bioavailable. Some marketers claim that this attachment prevents degradation by the liver. Creatine is actually synthesized in the liver, morons.

2) Secondly, the ester attachment allegedly, enables this form of creatine to permeate the muscle cell membrane (outershell). Thus, more creatine can enter muscle cells. This is a straight out lie. The only way creatine and other amino acid compounds enter cells is via transporters. Yah, the creatine transporters for CREATINE MADE IN THE BODY NOT CREATINE ETHYL ESTER... morons


3) How naive are you people?? These companies claim 400x more absorption, faster absorption, etc over Creatine Monohydrate, THESE are specific claims, claims that need to be backed by science... ask one of these companies to show you a study not done by them and a few of their bodybuilders... NOTHING... "but but jay cutler says...." screw off

4) You want to talk about CEE, hey guess what. Clayton south wrote an article. In the first line he lists 9 references dealing with Creatine monohydrate. Then uses them to back up CEE... it is douche bags like this that gets everyone confused...

If anyone on this board can get me a SCIENTIFIC STUDY done by researchers that is controlled, look on academic search premier and pubmed, etc. Then i may just change my mind... but guess what i already looked 2 years ago, there is nothing and will never be anything proving CEE is superior because it is creatinine in a bottle

I use creatine monohydrate 25g a day for 3 days then off for three and repeat over and over. I gained 20lbs in 2 months when i started this. I tried CEE and lost strength weekly (dymatize xpand)...

[fritzer]

there is research backing up what i do (25g a day for 3 days/ off 3 days).. a scientific study was with a 2week loading phase then 8 weeks 3-5g maintenance dose... after 8 weeks creatine levels were lower than before the men started the trial!!

Achieving a high concentration of creatine within muscle is essential to triggering a powerful anabolic effect at the cellular level. However, it is clear that the traditional dosage pattern fails to maintain high muscle creatine concentrations over a longer period of time (6 to 12 weeks).

1. Volek et al. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 31: 1147-1156, 1999.

2. Cribb et al. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 35: S400, A2239, 2003

3. Cribb et al. Presented at The Australian Association of Exercise and Sports Science Conference, April, 2004

Excessive loading (the traditional way) may cause creatine saturation outside the cell that prevents effective muscle uptake for weeks or even months! [4]

4. Guerrero-Ontivers, M.L. and Wallimann, T. Molecular and Cellular Biochemistry. 184: 427-437, 1998.

A small maintenance dose is futile at maintaining high muscle creatine concentrations. Using a small dose after loading ensures that high muscle creatine concentrations disappear within 6 weeks![5]

5. Van Loon et al. Clinical Science 104:153?162. 2003

Dammit doesn't anyone know how to research anymore?