[DieTrying]

Originally Posted by Sir Savage

Hey man, can you please post this presentation or give us a link?

No presentation was given other than what has been posted.

[Steveoph]

Definitely an interesting post, need to keep an eye on this.

[bLacKjAck.]

Originally Posted by T-Bone

What about the Bat Cave?

Well now T-Bone, THAT was supposed to be a secret....gah!!

[ItsHectic]

So if CM works better than KA maybe we are all overdosing CM, because CM makes me piss on the hour.

[Reem]

Originally Posted by ItsHectic

So if CM works better than KA maybe we are all overdosing CM, because CM makes me piss on the hour.

CM gives me diarrea... which is something the CEE and KA sellers claim in their ads does not happen with CEE/KA due to them not converting into the 'toxic' creatinine which the body flushes away causing the diarrea...

CM worked the best for me but the GI discomfort was a big negative. Now it seems science shows creatine to not be worse in creatinine conversion...I wonder what my problem is... dosing too high or impure creatine?

[CDB]

How long does creatine of any kind stay in the stomach? It was my understanding any meal taken in in a chyme or liquid state went on to the intestines pretty fast, 20 minutes or so. So unless you're eating creatine cookies, it should travel fairly quickly to your intestines where bile and bicarbonate and what not raise the PH and absorption begins rather quickly, correct?

[ItsHectic]

It should be fairly quick, I have a feeling its less than 20 mins to reach the intestines, but I think 5 grams a day of CM is too high, I am gonna start CM at 2 grams a day and find out what works best for me.

[wastedwhiteboy2]

this needs a bump.

[PumpingIron]

Dammit.

[Sir Savage]

Big Bossman Par Deus and Bane make some counterpoints on the bb.com thread, gentlemen.

[thesinner]

Originally Posted by Sir Savage

Big Bossman Par Deus and Bane make some counterpoints on the bb.com thread, gentlemen.

Can you post, quote, or link them here? I am interested in hearing what they said, but not interested enough to comb through BB.com

[bLacKjAck.]

Originally Posted by thesinner

Can you post, quote, or link them here? I am interested in hearing what they said, but not interested enough to comb through BB.com

x2. Just paste the quote over here. I am goin over there later. If it hasn't been done by then I will post it for you guys.

[Sir Savage]

Try this one-

Cee & Kre-alkyln Debunked!!!! - Page 6 - Bodybuilding.com Forums

At some point in that thread, though, Bane explains how CEE works, why the results of this research are not unexpected, and how it's a mistake to read too much into an unpublished abstract.

Bane, Par Deus, and Pat Arnold all believe CEE works. Better than CM? Probably not, but it's still a very viable way to get creatine.

[Sir Savage]

Here's the post I was looking for from Bane-

Originally Posted by Bane
Good info Layne. Any chance you can pass us the full study? (Univercity is closed unfortunately). Now on CEE a few points:
Any ester when in aquatic environment will partially go to the balance:
Ester<-----(Acidic environment)-----(Alcalic environment)----->Acid+Alcohol.
This is true of every single ester stuff out there(btw acetyl- somethings are esters too) and when some drugs are esterified this is expected. However many times the esterified fors are superior in pharmacocenetic properties so we bother in esteryfying them. This study does not mean that CEE is bunk, as it follows the normal properties of an ester. However this is not to also say that CEE is necessarily superior to creatine mono(which as i have posted numerous time in the past is very stable in stomach environment and is abserbed just fine despite stupid claims by many companies).
Of course the ultimate answer to the CEE quiz would be a double blind study that compared CEE and mono in strenth/mass gains on athletes.

By the way the study has an inherent flaw, as ph of 1 is very rarely present in the stomach, the usual ph is about 3-4(for those unfamiliar with ph scale, this means 100-1000 times less acidic that 1).

As for Kre-alkalyn, junk. Just put some baking soda in your creatine, PRONTO, kre-alcalyn for 1/4 the price.

He goes on in later posts to quote the research shown to the FDA on CEE.

Even Layne was forced to admit later on by Par that this doesn't mean CEE is "inferior", "bunk", or whatever.

[CDB]

Originally Posted by Sir Savage

Here's the post I was looking for from Bane-

He goes on in later posts to quote the research shown to the FDA on CEE.

Even Layne was forced to admit later on by Par that this doesn't mean CEE is "inferior", "bunk", or whatever.

Thanks for reposting it here.

[Highlanda01602]

Very interesting thread. Maybe I havn't been online doing reading enough about CEE to notice this. I assumed I was just another "non-responder" to CEE... I too didn't see any gains. Pumps CAN be a day to day thing, or even psychological. I suppose if you are expecting it, you will think to a certain extent that you are getting them.

Definitly interested in this! I havn't used monohydrate in years, but might try it again soon! Great thread