- 06-08-2007, 05:15 AM
I know atd is a potent AI and a SARM. It's an AR antagonist in the hypothalamus, it raises test level by blocking the aromatase and the AR (I think this is the reason for a "kill libido" effect)....
But,Do you know if the ATD have a AR antagonist effect in muscles tissute?
I've used novedext xt as a stand alone cycle (3 caps night)and with an oxodrol12 cycle (clone of superdrol) for the last week (now) and my strength remains the same ever in very low cals/chos diet....I feel strong (not like under anabolic steroids), I feel great....but, my libido is "under the ground"....
My SD cycle with Nxt:
first week: 12mg SD pre wo (AM)
2 caps Nxt (PM)
second week: 12mg SD pre wo
12mg SD 8/10 hours later
third week: same as above
last week: 12mg SD pre wo (AM)
3 caps Nxt (PM)
post cycle therapy: nolva: 40/20/20
rebound xt: 50/50/25/25
After the PCT i wont try a stand alone cycle of MDHT as hardering agent (think 37mg/day)..
amin, after the first week my strength goes up...I add 5 reps in all my lifts and, about 2/3 lbs in all my exercises..I haven't follow a "mass diet", but, for the first 2 weeks, a boyrecomp and for the last 2 a cutting diet, very low cals and carbs. Now, my lifts are the same and my bodycomp is improve..
For that reason a think ATD is a SARM with a specificity on the Hypothalamus as a AR antagonist.....
Please speculate guys..
and sorry for my bad english
- 06-08-2007, 08:22 AM
What I can agree with having experienced it myself is that ATDs negative impact upon libido is a very real phenomena. We could speculate as to the cause indefinitely, but I think it would be more productive to simply agree that if this is a concern to you that you would be better advised to simply find another compound to use which doesn't negatively impact upon libido.
06-08-2007, 08:51 AM
Horm Behav. 1989 Mar;23(1):10-26.
Effects of ATD on male sexual behavior and androgen receptor binding: a reexamination of the aromatization hypothesis.
Kaplan ME, McGinnis MY.
Department of Anatomy, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, CUNY, New York 10029.
The aromatization hypothesis asserts that testosterone (T) must be aromatized to estradiol (E2) to activate copulatory behavior in the male rat. In support of this hypothesis, the aromatization inhibitor, ATD, has been found to suppress male sexual behavior in T-treated rats. In our experiment, we first replicated this finding by peripherally injecting ATD (15 mg/day) or propylene glycol into T-treated (two 10-mm Silastic capsules) or control castrated male rats. In a second experiment, we bilaterally implanted either ATD-filled or blank cannulae into the medial preoptic area (MPOA) of either T-treated or control castrated male rats. With this more local distribution of ATD, a lesser decline in sexual behavior was found, suggesting that other brain areas are involved in the neurohormonal activation of copulatory behavior in the male rat. To determine whether in vivo ATD interacts with androgen or estrogen receptors, we conducted cell nuclear androgen and estrogen receptor binding assays of hypothalamus, preoptic area, amygdala, and septum following treatment with the combinations of systemic T alone. ATD plus T, ATD alone, and blank control. In all four brain areas binding of T to androgen receptors was significantly decreased in the presence of ATD, suggesting that ATD may act both as an androgen receptor blocker and as an aromatization inhibitor. Competitive binding studies indicated that ATD competes in vitro for cytosol androgen receptors, thus substantiating the in vivo antiandrogenic effects of ATD. Cell nuclear estrogen receptor binding was not significantly increased by exposure to T in the physiological range. No agonistic properties of ATD were observed either behaviorally or biochemically. Thus, an alternative explanation for the inhibitory effects of ATD on male sexual behavior is that ATD prevents T from binding to androgen receptors.
This is good for the restart of the HPTA, but kill your libido...
Now, I think, if you use ATD during an anabolic steroids cycle (ever with not aromatizable drugs) and take it before bed (when the endogenus production of test is in the upper range) you can fight the shutdown of the HPTA.....Only a theory...but the problem is if the androstatrienedione block the ARs in the muscles and inhibits the gains during an anabolic steroids cycle..
And, if you follow an ATD stand alone cycle your test raise, but, the ARs are blocked by the ATD....you'll have a lot of test in the blood stream, but it can't does is job...
06-08-2007, 10:22 AM
Interesting study, and certainly seems to offer an explanation for the libido issues reported by many.
Why do you think it would be useful for preventing HPTA shutdown whilst on-cycle? I'm not sure if I follow your thinking here - what makes it better than exemestane or adex?
06-08-2007, 10:46 AM
I think he means that the ATD will block AR in the brain and HPTA thus diguising the fact you are loaded with androgens during a cycle. I have used it during cycle and it did not impact gains to any noticable extent.
In practice, I find ATD to be very anabolic by itself. I do not know if this is an intrinsic effect of the ATD itself or if the binding of ARs in muscle tissues is not as pronounced as the literature would have us believe. It does however, kill my libido dead as a doornail.
06-08-2007, 11:12 AM
06-08-2007, 11:24 AM
Testes stay large and in charge on ATD, but libido is dead. Mentally, I feel good on this stuff and have great pumps in the gym so myself and a few others kinda believe that ATD has anabolic effects or one of it's metabolites does.
The story is further confused by the fact that ATD shows up as testosterone on blood tests so it clouds the claims that it actually boosts test. Is it? Or is it a prohormone or anabolic steroids all by itself? I dunno...but it's cheap. lol
06-08-2007, 12:30 PM
My gains during my oxodrol cycle were not compromised with 2 caps at night of Nxt, and now (my last week) my balls are the right size....
If my strengh is good and my bodycomp improve I can't think the ATD act as AR's antagonist on the muscles....but I haven't found any studies about this "speculation"...
I think, in september, I'll try to stack oxodrol12 with Nxt, 3 weeks, 24mg oxodrol before WO and 2 caps (50mg ATD) Nxt at night...
During the first week of my cycle (12mg oxo and 2 caps Nxt) I feel great, my strength goes up..a lot...the second and the third week (24mg Oxo) I feel tired and my strength reamin the same or goes up, but not like the first week...
Today, 2 day before the end of the cycle, with 12mg oxo and 3 caps Nxt I feel great, my strength stay the same ever in very ipocaloric diet and 50gr chos/day.....
I dunno if the ATD can help with anabolic steroids that not acts on the AR (like winny, oxandrolone.....)...but I've have a poor experience on this regard...
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