*THE Beta-Alanine, Carnosine Thread, Brought to you by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION*

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  1. constant recomp
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockstar6181 View Post
    can beta alaine be taken with turine,creatine and Citrulline Malate at same time?
    yes

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    thank you sir.
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    I just received my electronic version of Muscular Development(Nov pg190) and saw another one of our beta-alanine articles published. They actually forgot my name on the article this time, as Anssi and I collaborated on this write-up..lol But none the less, I wrote the beta-alanine section and Anssi wrote the leucine section.

    This article is a head on comparison with creatine, showing their similarities and differences. As you all know, beta-alanine consistently gets touted as the next creatine for obvious reasons.

    The point of this article was to show why it is often touted this way, but at the same time, also explain how this statement can be misleading if the details are not fully understood. Hopefully the intention of this article is understood and the reader realizes that beta-alanine DOES NOT replace creatine. At the same time getting the point across, that they do share many parallels, which brings about the comparison.

    You all know I love beta-alanine, but I also have huge respect for creatine and do not want beta-alanine to be known as a replacement to creatine. Not only would it be inaccurate to market beta-alanine this way, it could also stop people from properly understanding how beta-alanine works and how different it is from creatine!

    Creatine is one of my all time favorite supplements and NOTHING can ever replace it. I believe both creatine and beta-alanine to be the two most effective ergogenic aids in sports nutrition by FAR.














    Beta-Alanine & PreWO articles in Muscular Development!

    Our beta-alanine article- science meets real world results, in Muscular Development-









    Thank you for your support and we have another VERY different article that should be out in MD next month!
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    i jus tpicked up some beta alanine to take with dymatize expand how ever i didn't fully go through this thread before i purchased my BA. The vitamin shoppe i went to didn't not carry the particualr brand discussed through out these threads. The main diffrence is the addition of 300 mg of L-Histidine to each 1500mg of BA capsule.
    Will this hinder the effects of this BA. Keep in myind i will be taking two of these pills twice a day . just curious ???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post




    I just received my electronic version of Muscular Development(Nov pg190) and saw another one of our beta-alanine articles published. They actually forgot my name on the article this time, as Anssi and I collaborated on this write-up..lol But none the less, I wrote the beta-alanine section and Anssi wrote the leucine section.

    This article is a head on comparison with creatine, showing their similarities and differences. As you all know, beta-alanine consistently gets touted as the next creatine for obvious reasons.

    The point of this article was to show why it is often touted this way, but at the same time, also explain how this statement can be misleading if the details are not fully understood. Hopefully the intention of this article is understood and the reader realizes that beta-alanine DOES NOT replace creatine. At the same time getting the point across, that they do share many parallels, which brings about the comparison.

    You all know I love beta-alanine, but I also have huge respect for creatine and do not want beta-alanine to be known as a replacement to creatine. Not only would it be inaccurate to market beta-alanine this way, it could also stop people from properly understanding how beta-alanine works and how different it is from creatine!

    Creatine is one of my all time favorite supplements and NOTHING can ever replace it. I believe both creatine and beta-alanine to be the two most effective ergogenic aids in sports nutrition by FAR.














    Beta-Alanine & PreWO articles in Muscular Development!

    Our beta-alanine article- science meets real world results, in Muscular Development-









    Thank you for your support and we have another VERY different article that should be out in MD next month!
    Awesome!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan4415 View Post
    i jus tpicked up some beta alanine to take with dymatize expand how ever i didn't fully go through this thread before i purchased my BA. The vitamin shoppe i went to didn't not carry the particualr brand discussed through out these threads. The main diffrence is the addition of 300 mg of L-Histidine to each 1500mg of BA capsule.
    Will this hinder the effects of this BA. Keep in myind i will be taking two of these pills twice a day . just curious ???
    The histidine, wont do anything one way or the other and 300mg is a tiny amount regardless.

    The more important question is , how much beta-alanine a day are you getting from this product?

    Lastly, you can always request your local VitaminShoppe to carry our products. VitaminWorld already do and actually sell them for a great price.
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    thank your for your reply its nice to see a new comer is able to get a response from a seemingly well educated individual on this subject .
    Each pill is 1500mg BA and 300 L-Histidine i take four pills a day
    Two pills 30 min before i work out and then two 6 hours later as directed by the maker. so i get a total of 6g a day of ba and 1200mg of hitidine a day. wasn't a bad price 24.99 but I defenately will try your product the next go round. and possibly tell you the difference i have noticed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    Shouldn’t I take extra histidine along with Beta-Alanine since histidine is a component of carnosine?

    No. Histidine is already present in high concentrations in muscle, while Beta-Alanine is only present only in small amounts. Researchers have determined that it is beta-alanine that drives carnosine synthesis, not histidine. Since this has been proven repeatedly in research, there is no need to supplement with extra histidine to increase carnosine levels. There are potentially some select populations like vegans, vegetarians or the elderly that may not get enough histidine in their diets and are thus deficient, which may compromise optimal carnosine levels. But, we still don’t recommend taking just extra histidine with Beta-Alanine. Instead, we recommend these groups and simply bump up their total protein intake which will in turn solve their possible histidine deficiency. For the majority of healthy people, only Beta –Alanine is needed as histidine deficiency is rare and no extra supplementation is needed to increase carnosine concentrations.
    Taken from this thread and I HIGHLY suggest you read through it as most if not all the questions you will likely have, have already been addressed!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan4415 View Post
    thank your for your reply its nice to see a new comer is able to get a response from a seemingly well educated individual on this subject .
    Each pill is 1500mg BA and 300 L-Histidine i take four pills a day
    Two pills 30 min before i work out and then two 6 hours later as directed by the maker. so i get a total of 6g a day of ba and 1200mg of hitidine a day. wasn't a bad price 24.99 but I defenately will try your product the next go round. and possibly tell you the difference i have noticed.
    Would you mind,saying which brand, as I don't think you will bet getting those amounts per pill, more like per SERVING. Let me know
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    Some awesome info here. Looks like I have found something to take with my Xtend. This will be in my next order at NP fo sho. Question though. I have tried creatine several times in the past and I have come to the conclusion that I do not respond to it like most others do (at all). Have you ever heard of BA non responders?
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    Quote Originally Posted by natedogg View Post
    Some awesome info here. Looks like I have found something to take with my Xtend. This will be in my next order at NP fo sho. Question though. I have tried creatine several times in the past and I have come to the conclusion that I do not respond to it like most others do (at all). Have you ever heard of BA non responders?
    I believe we had ONE person say they "didn't feel anything" from IXL, but they only used it for 4 weeks......we do not really know what their training or diet looked like ect.....
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    i think there was a mix up by me reading the lable, but i was taking muscle blast elite series which had 1500 mg per "serving" which was two pills and suggested use was 2 servings a day. i have now started taking H+ blocker though am not sure if i really enjoy the product. Could you shin some light on the differences between H+ Blocker and intraxcell ??

    i am ordering the intraxcell this time around but i was curious if i could take it with noxplode ? i know the studies show it is safe to take with creatine. So far with my experince with creatine cell mass and noxplode together have probably worked the best.
    though this cycle of expand i am using now for the first time is doing wonders.
    Any who, i was considering taking yoru product with the two BSN products noxplode and cellmass because these products work well( and work well for mein the past) have one several awards for best muscle building product and best creatine at least on bodybuilding.com
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    Exclamation





    In this months issue of MD(March, pg 178), we collaborated in witting a review of a recent beta-alanine research study. Additionally, the IntraXCell study is mentioned, as both our study and the one reviewed both used 400m sprints as one of the testing protocols.
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    Concerning Beta Alanine, Lactic Acid, and HGH


    This discussion is taken from another forum and may be of interest.


    Quote Originally Posted by papagunz View Post
    Unfortunately I don't have any scientific journals to cite for this, which I apologize for, but I've read a crap load of articles and would like some air cleared.

    Concerning lactic acid and subsequent release of GH, I am under this impression:

    "Short rest intervals lead to an increased production of lactate, and an increase in lactate leads to dramatic increases in Growth Hormone, thus resulting in very significant losses of body fat." - Charles Polinquin in the article "Lactic Acid Training for Fat Loss"

    Here's where my beta alanine question ties in. I've read various things, and I just want it straight. Some camps say that it lowers the amount of lactic acid developed, some say that it just lowers its effects (acidosis via H+). Which is it?

    Does beta alanine indirectly blunt lactic acid production, therefore by my understanding lowering released GH? OR does beta alanine simply reduce the effects of acidosis and not blunt lactate production, thereby allowing more lactic acid to be produced thanks to a higher muscular endurance threshold, and consequently more GH released as a result?

    Thanks guys. And, if I'm completely off base, please tell me. Tactfully, if you don't mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    Ok, first GH secretion is quite a complex process that is both directly and indirectly stimulated. It's not even close to as simple as stated above or even in my explanation. But it atleast mine will be much closer to being accurate!

    Regarding exercise, GH secretion is sensitive to these main stimuli:
    1.Volume of exercise
    2. The amount of rest between sets
    3. Resistance used
    4. Catecholamines, primarily epinephrine can also stimulate GH release.

    Some of these stimuli or variables do lead to increased H+ and lactate concentrations, which in tern do increase GH release.

    The last part, where it says, resulting in significant loss of body fat is not supported by any research I have ever seen. And I find it highly doubtful.

    Moving along..




    Most people, really have no clue how beta-alanine works or have a proper understanding of glycolysis, which is why there is so much weird information out there on beta-alanine.

    The ANSWER is it affects BOTH!! It reduces lactic acid formation and fights the drop in pH caused by increased H+ concentrations. NOW I have never seen anyone ANYWHERE explain how BA can reduce lactic acid formation and I wont actually be disclosing this either. But, I will say this, if you dig DEEP enough inside the pathways of glycolysis and TRULY understand how it works and how carnosine comes into play, you can understand how beta-alanine can reduce lactic acid formation. You will also understand, why lactate levels may stay the same or actually decrease, even when performance is increasing when supplementing with BA. Yet another reason why measuring lactate in beta-alanine performance testing is not very helpful. VT tests are MUCH better.

    I got into this exact discussion with some of the top phD researchers in the world and initially we came to one conclusion. In a nutshell, that lactate levels should actually increase due to glycolysis being able to carry on longer due to increased CARN concentrations soaking up more H+. But after some deep research myself, I came to a much bigger picture and I believe many of them agree with me now.



    Based on how I believe beta-alanine can both reduce lactic acid formation but also allow increased lactate ion levels to occur, I would say NO significant affect one way or the other. Just in case you don't want to take my word, there is a beta-alanine study that actually showed that beta-alanine DID NOT alter GH concentrations.

    Lastly, I don't think GH release during exercise matters that much to begin with, so it's kind of a moot point. Most of GH's affects come through boosting IGF1 and guess what? IGF1 has been shown to increase during exercise INDEPENDENTLY of GH.
    Quote Originally Posted by papagunz View Post
    Thank you! This **** is extremely fascinating.

    I'm still undeclared, perhaps I should venture into biology...
    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    No problem, there's alot of inaccurate stuff out there on how beta-alanine supposedly works. Since 2006, I have done my best to squash alot of the myths and misinformation, through magazine article and threads like these!
    Quote Originally Posted by in10city View Post
    This basic premise is off? Clear me up, since that's what I've gathered thus far

    Beta-Alanine works in the muscle and the lactic acid feedback mechanism that stimulates GH release occurs in the blood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    Nope not off at all. You first need to think where the primary source of lactic and H+ are produced(within the muscles{intracellulary}) Our first line of defense against this is of course intracellular buffers like CARN. There is a close relationship between intracellular and extracellular buffers,with intracellular buffers being your first line of defense reducing the amount of H+ and lactic acid that then go into extracellularly fluid/blood circulation. They work as a team, not separate.

    Lactate produced in the muscles, circulates through the BLOOD to the liver and kidneys. Importantly the lactate that goes to the liver can then go through gluconeogenesis and produce us some glucose to be used as fuel. By controlling pH within the muscles, you will also greatly modulate pH in the blood. This in a nushell is part of the Cori Cycle. Look into it for a better understanding of everything I am saying.


    Good question btw
    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    But I might add, the quotes in the OP first post probably didn't know this, so yes their basic premise is probably off!

    Also high amounts of H+ limit fat oxidation, so he is wrong about that as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    This discussion is taken from another forum and may be of interest.
    i remember reading that! lol...just to let u know im slightly depressed bc i went to order intrabolic last night and it was out of stock at nutra!!! so i cried and am hoping its back soon lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolt10 View Post
    i remember reading that! lol...just to let u know im slightly depressed bc i went to order intrabolic last night and it was out of stock at nutra!!! so i cried and am hoping its back soon lol
    Yup, your question the other day, jogged the old memory!

    BTW, check PM's
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    Yup, your question the other day, jogged the old memory!

    BTW, check PM's
    haha np and i am sure many will appreciate some of the info in those posts...got the pm and replied thanks
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    I just picked up the most recent issue of Muscular Development(Feb issue, pg 190) and was pleasantly surprised to see a picture of IntraXCell used in the supplement performance section, titled:the best of supplement research". There are a couple paragraphs about beta-alanine, with an image of IntraXCell next to it. It also appears, they used the first paragraph from a previous MD article I wrote!
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    Adding a little from a previous post


    There are two so called potential issues with beta-alanine and taurine. These two so called potential issues are the root cause of the confusion spread on the forums and even within some magazines. Of course supplement manufacturers(NOT AEN) have continued to perpetrate this myth as well


    These so called potential issues are as follows:


    1. Decreased beta-alanine uptake due to both beta-alanine and taurine sharing the same transporter. The rational is that competition for same transporter will decrease absorption and beta-alanine's ability to increase intramuscular CARN concentrations.

    2. Taurine loss from the body,as beta-alanine causes blood plasma taurine levels to elevate. Many people jump all over a few IRRELEVANTLY dosed ANIMAL studies.


    Anyway, here are the answers:


    Potential so called issue #1:
    The supposed taurine competition issue is also NOT an issue, as clearly shown in the research from the pioneer of beta-alanine performance research, Dr.Harris. He states in his most recent study that the increase in muscle CARN with B-Alanine supplementation did not appear to be reduced by the presence of taurine. If you do not believe his word on beta-alanine, I don't know what to tell you, as he is THE worlds authority on beta-alanine research related to exercise performance. Check MD article for our full answer. In a nutshell, intramuscular CARN concentrations are no different when supplementing with Beta-alanine alone or adding taurine into the mix as the research CLEARLY shows.


    Potential so called issue #2:
    This issue gained popularity on the forums based on some rat and cat studies that showed beta-alanine decreased the taurine content in the myocardium by half. These studies were using doses that are over 100 times higher than the highest Beta-alanine studies of 6.4 grams a day. These rat studies aren't even relevant to how we use Beta-Alanine in terms of dosage.

    Beta-alanine does cause taurine levels to increase in the blood plasma, leading some to believe that we are actually losing alot of it from the body through excreting it in the urine. But from multiple studies now, the researchers have shown the taurine loss in the urine, is NOT at any level of significance.

    Dr.Tallon who you may have seen posting in within our bb.com thread, put it into context quite nicely, when he said a glass of milk would replace the amount of taurine loss shown in the beta-alanine studies. He has his PhD in carnosine metabolism and his words on the topic hold alot of weight.
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    I took beta alanine (1.5g) before training last week and i can honestly say i've never felt anything like it!

    The prickly sensation was almost unbearable (at times) and i have to admit it scared me because i was unaware that it did this.

    But getting past that, the energy i had in the gym was unreal. I ploughed through 18 sets comfortably. I felt i could have done the workout once again straight after.

    I suppose the tingling is dose related and everybody reacts slightly different to it but if you can live with it, the energy you will have in the gym will make it so worthwhile.

    I actually used CNP 'pro-slam' which is a pre workout formula which contains 27g of protein, 1.5 of BA aswel as taurine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ono View Post
    I took beta alanine (1.5g) before training last week and i can honestly say i've never felt anything like it!

    The prickly sensation was almost unbearable (at times) and i have to admit it scared me because i was unaware that it did this.

    But getting past that, the energy i had in the gym was unreal. I ploughed through 18 sets comfortably. I felt i could have done the workout once again straight after.

    I suppose the tingling is dose related and everybody reacts slightly different to it but if you can live with it, the energy you will have in the gym will make it so worthwhile.

    I actually used CNP 'pro-slam' which is a pre workout formula which contains 27g of protein, 1.5 of BA aswel as taurine.
    It usually subsides over time, but if you find it bothersome, don't take it preWO. The most important thing with BA it to take it daily, as it has cummulative effects.
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    How do you all time and dose Beta-Alanine? I take about 8 grams a day, pre and post workout. I feel like I am either not getting enough or I should spread it out more.

    Thoughts?
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    8 grams a day is on the high side, you may be able to use less and still get good results. I usually dose at breakfast, pre-post workout, and later in the day. Currently i am taking 1 with breakfast, on workout days i have my intrabolic(3.2 grams), and 1 gram with dinner or prebed meal. And on off days i just take 4 grams with 2 in the morning and 2 later in the day. Also i try to take my doses with carbs as that increases the effectiveness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulygon View Post
    How do you all time and dose Beta-Alanine? I take about 8 grams a day, pre and post workout. I feel like I am either not getting enough or I should spread it out more.

    Thoughts?
    You're certainly getting more than enough and I personally wouldn't bother going over 6g a day, beyond the first 2-4 weeks. After the first month, 4-5g's is plenty and higher dosing wont make a difference, especially when you get into month 2,3 and beyond. The only real advantage to using 6g a day is in the first month, in terms of raising CARN levels faster, but it all even out, once you get in month 2,3 and beyond.

    I would split your doses into 2g, 2-3x per day.
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    But you would defiantly recommend spreading the doses out? I might go 2-Breakfast, 2-Pre, 2 Post, and perhaps 2 before bed???????
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulygon View Post
    But you would defiantly recommend spreading the doses out? I might go 2-Breakfast, 2-Pre, 2 Post, and perhaps 2 before bed???????
    Yes, the only time I would take more than 2g per dose, would be sipping/trickling it in during my workout, when blood flow is higher and cellular uptake is highly sensitive.And even than, I likely wouldn't go more than 3-3.5g. Having 4g hit you at one time, is going to cause much of it to be wasted, as we have a limited capacity in how fast our cells can absorb it at one time and it clear s from the blood very fast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ono View Post
    I took beta alanine (1.5g) before training last week and i can honestly say i've never felt anything like it!

    I actually used CNP 'pro-slam' which is a pre workout formula which contains 27g of protein, 1.5 of BA aswel as taurine.
    How do you like the pro slam? I am testing it out as a protein source and I feel the tingle with it.
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