*THE Beta-Alanine, Carnosine Thread, Brought to you by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION*

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  1. Exclamation


    Quote Originally Posted by Australian made View Post
    I just read this article last night in MD now i come on here and see this..............it must be love.
    Just a heads up, we will have TWO more articles in the next issue of MD, that should be hitting the newstands any day now. It will be the issue with Dennis Wolf on the cover.

    One article is about pre-workout nutrition, related to central fatigue. The other is.....wait for it, you're never going to guess. Beta-Alanine!!

    It's a pretty cool article, as it has a section that specifically speak about the study done on our beta-alanine product, IntraXCell.

  2. Exclamation






    We are pleased to announce, two more articles from us are in the September issue of Muscular Development on newsstands NOW! I have scanned just the first page of our beta-alanine article and as usual will post the full articles once the issue is off the newsstands.













    Thank you for your support and keep an eye out for more articles from us in other major bb/fitness magazine throughout the course of this year.
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  3. I figured I would show another page of our three page beta-alanine article, where it briefly mentions the IntraXCell study. Expect to see quite a bit more press on this study.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post







    Is Beta-Alanine safe?

    While this is not a frequently asked question, it should be. We understand many people care most about gaining muscle, looking great and performing at their best but safety should not be overlooked. We believe it should actually be the first question asked when considering a new supplement, even before you question efficacy.

    The answer to the safety question is a resounding YES. Studies, going up to 12 weeks of continued Beta-Alanine use, have looked at a large array of blood biochemical, hematological and hormonal markers and no negative changes have occurred whatsoever. While it is impossible to say Beta-Alanine is one hundred percent safe until longer term studies are complete, we do know that up to 12 weeks of continued Beta-Alanine supplementation is indeed safe.
    AEN-
    Have you (or any other subscribers) any information on the occurance of allergys with supplementation of BA? I have never had a serious allergy until this week. Had a serious skin rash that started in my feet and moved up from there. There was swelling, burning, itchy, red bumps (like hives). Couldn't walk too well for 4 days. The doc has me on an anti-histime and cortisone cream to get things back to normal. Given BA increases histidine which is the source for histimine, I now wonder if there is a cause and effect with the supplemention and the allergy I am experiencing. I started supplementing BA 3 only weeks ago at 6-8 gms per day divided in two doses pre and post workout. No other changes in diet or anything else I can think of that may have triggered the allergy.

    Any comments or experiences on the subject would be appreciated.
    Thanks

  5. Quote Originally Posted by steve777 View Post
    AEN-
    Have you (or any other subscribers) any information on the occurance of allergys with supplementation of BA? I have never had a serious allergy until this week. Had a serious skin rash that started in my feet and moved up from there. There was swelling, burning, itchy, red bumps (like hives). Couldn't walk too well for 4 days. The doc has me on an anti-histime and cortisone cream to get things back to normal. Given BA increases histidine which is the source for histimine, I now wonder if there is a cause and effect with the supplemention and the allergy I am experiencing. I started supplementing BA 3 only weeks ago at 6-8 gms per day divided in two doses pre and post workout. No other changes in diet or anything else I can think of that may have triggered the allergy.

    Any comments or experiences on the subject would be appreciated.
    Thanks
    A very good/interesting question and one I have thought about for quite some time. Here is some information that may help you make your own decision. Remember, this information in NO way is carved in stone and MUCH more research is needed to draw an accurate conclusion. Please do NOT take this post as medical advice.

    Let me start by saying, there is no data to support that ba could cuase an allergy but I could see their being a chance is could potentiate an underlying or current allergy. Mainly this could occur through beta-alanine possibly increasing histamine release, predominantly through two ways. 1. Its ability to activate nerves that release histamine 2. Beta-alanine's ability to boost carnosine. When carnosine is broken down into beta-alanine and histidine, the histidine component can then be further broken down into histamine.

    On the other side, beta-alanine can combine with histamine to form a carnosine analog called carcinine and lesson the activity of histamine(a good thing).


    Since you asked and for what it's is worth. There has been NO anecdotal feedback with people telling us they have had a problem of this nature, since IntraXCell was launched back in 2006.

    Lastly, if you decide to stay on ba, I would lower your dose into the 4-5g range max, as the highest dose used in the research is 6.4g's. And it's very obvious when looking at ending carnosine concentrations, even going this high only increases carnosine concentrations faster in the first month than 3.2g and just barley more so then the 4-5g range. By month 2-3 and onward, no difference when compared to the 4-5g range. We suggest people look at the 6.4g dose as a OPTIONAL 2 week loading phase, not as a optimal maintenance dose beyond the first month.


    I will continue to look further for more information, but for now, all I can say is, I wouldn't rule out the potential that beta-alanine could aggravate individuals with existing allergies.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    A very good/interesting question and one I have thought about for quite some time. Here is some information that may help you make your own decision. Remember, this information in NO way is carved in stone and MUCH more research is needed to draw an accurate conclusion. Please do NOT take this post as medical advice.

    Let me start by saying, there is no data to support that ba could cuase an allergy but I could see their being a chance is could potentiate an underlying or current allergy. Mainly this could occur through beta-alanine possibly increasing histamine release, predominantly through two ways. 1. Its ability to activate nerves that release histamine 2. Beta-alanine's ability to boost carnosine. When carnosine is broken down into beta-alanine and histidine, the histidine component can then be further broken down into histamine.

    On the other side, beta-alanine can combine with histamine to form a carnosine analog called carcinine and lesson the activity of histamine(a good thing).


    Since you asked and for what it's is worth. There has been NO anecdotal feedback with people telling us they have had a problem of this nature, since IntraXCell was launched back in 2006.

    Lastly, if you decide to stay on ba, I would lower your dose into the 4-5g range max, as the highest dose used in the research is 6.4g's. And it's very obvious when looking at ending carnosine concentrations, even going this high only increases carnosine concentrations faster in the first month than 3.2g and just barley more so then the 4-5g range. By month 2-3 and onward, no difference when compared to the 4-5g range. We suggest people look at the 6.4g dose as a OPTIONAL 2 week loading phase, not as a optimal maintenance dose beyond the first month.


    I will continue to look further for more information, but for now, all I can say is, I wouldn't rule out the potential that beta-alanine could aggravate individuals with existing allergies.
    I will be getting some allergy testing done and will bring the BA question up with the doc at the time. Maybe BA can be tested for. Hopefully the allergy was caused by something else. Did seem to be having some strength/endurance gains from BA supplementation during the short time I was on it. If I do get back on it, it will be at the lower dose.

  7. Excellent thread. I've got some BA on the way. Not yours but just some bulk stuff. I'm looking forward to trying it out along with citrulline malate. It's probably going to taste nasty but that's why I have a capping machine

  8. Beta-Alanine in bulk is flavourless, atleast what I have. Also cit. malate doesn't taste too bad

  9. can beta alaine be taken with turine,creatine and Citrulline Malate at same time?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by rockstar6181 View Post
    can beta alaine be taken with turine,creatine and Citrulline Malate at same time?
    yes

  11. thank you sir.





  12. I just received my electronic version of Muscular Development(Nov pg190) and saw another one of our beta-alanine articles published. They actually forgot my name on the article this time, as Anssi and I collaborated on this write-up..lol But none the less, I wrote the beta-alanine section and Anssi wrote the leucine section.

    This article is a head on comparison with creatine, showing their similarities and differences. As you all know, beta-alanine consistently gets touted as the next creatine for obvious reasons.

    The point of this article was to show why it is often touted this way, but at the same time, also explain how this statement can be misleading if the details are not fully understood. Hopefully the intention of this article is understood and the reader realizes that beta-alanine DOES NOT replace creatine. At the same time getting the point across, that they do share many parallels, which brings about the comparison.

    You all know I love beta-alanine, but I also have huge respect for creatine and do not want beta-alanine to be known as a replacement to creatine. Not only would it be inaccurate to market beta-alanine this way, it could also stop people from properly understanding how beta-alanine works and how different it is from creatine!

    Creatine is one of my all time favorite supplements and NOTHING can ever replace it. I believe both creatine and beta-alanine to be the two most effective ergogenic aids in sports nutrition by FAR.














    Beta-Alanine & PreWO articles in Muscular Development!

    Our beta-alanine article- science meets real world results, in Muscular Development-









    Thank you for your support and we have another VERY different article that should be out in MD next month!

  13. i jus tpicked up some beta alanine to take with dymatize expand how ever i didn't fully go through this thread before i purchased my BA. The vitamin shoppe i went to didn't not carry the particualr brand discussed through out these threads. The main diffrence is the addition of 300 mg of L-Histidine to each 1500mg of BA capsule.
    Will this hinder the effects of this BA. Keep in myind i will be taking two of these pills twice a day . just curious ???

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post




    I just received my electronic version of Muscular Development(Nov pg190) and saw another one of our beta-alanine articles published. They actually forgot my name on the article this time, as Anssi and I collaborated on this write-up..lol But none the less, I wrote the beta-alanine section and Anssi wrote the leucine section.

    This article is a head on comparison with creatine, showing their similarities and differences. As you all know, beta-alanine consistently gets touted as the next creatine for obvious reasons.

    The point of this article was to show why it is often touted this way, but at the same time, also explain how this statement can be misleading if the details are not fully understood. Hopefully the intention of this article is understood and the reader realizes that beta-alanine DOES NOT replace creatine. At the same time getting the point across, that they do share many parallels, which brings about the comparison.

    You all know I love beta-alanine, but I also have huge respect for creatine and do not want beta-alanine to be known as a replacement to creatine. Not only would it be inaccurate to market beta-alanine this way, it could also stop people from properly understanding how beta-alanine works and how different it is from creatine!

    Creatine is one of my all time favorite supplements and NOTHING can ever replace it. I believe both creatine and beta-alanine to be the two most effective ergogenic aids in sports nutrition by FAR.














    Beta-Alanine & PreWO articles in Muscular Development!

    Our beta-alanine article- science meets real world results, in Muscular Development-









    Thank you for your support and we have another VERY different article that should be out in MD next month!
    Awesome!

  15. Quote Originally Posted by ryan4415 View Post
    i jus tpicked up some beta alanine to take with dymatize expand how ever i didn't fully go through this thread before i purchased my BA. The vitamin shoppe i went to didn't not carry the particualr brand discussed through out these threads. The main diffrence is the addition of 300 mg of L-Histidine to each 1500mg of BA capsule.
    Will this hinder the effects of this BA. Keep in myind i will be taking two of these pills twice a day . just curious ???
    The histidine, wont do anything one way or the other and 300mg is a tiny amount regardless.

    The more important question is , how much beta-alanine a day are you getting from this product?

    Lastly, you can always request your local VitaminShoppe to carry our products. VitaminWorld already do and actually sell them for a great price.

  16. thank your for your reply its nice to see a new comer is able to get a response from a seemingly well educated individual on this subject .
    Each pill is 1500mg BA and 300 L-Histidine i take four pills a day
    Two pills 30 min before i work out and then two 6 hours later as directed by the maker. so i get a total of 6g a day of ba and 1200mg of hitidine a day. wasn't a bad price 24.99 but I defenately will try your product the next go round. and possibly tell you the difference i have noticed.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    Shouldn’t I take extra histidine along with Beta-Alanine since histidine is a component of carnosine?

    No. Histidine is already present in high concentrations in muscle, while Beta-Alanine is only present only in small amounts. Researchers have determined that it is beta-alanine that drives carnosine synthesis, not histidine. Since this has been proven repeatedly in research, there is no need to supplement with extra histidine to increase carnosine levels. There are potentially some select populations like vegans, vegetarians or the elderly that may not get enough histidine in their diets and are thus deficient, which may compromise optimal carnosine levels. But, we still don’t recommend taking just extra histidine with Beta-Alanine. Instead, we recommend these groups and simply bump up their total protein intake which will in turn solve their possible histidine deficiency. For the majority of healthy people, only Beta –Alanine is needed as histidine deficiency is rare and no extra supplementation is needed to increase carnosine concentrations.
    Taken from this thread and I HIGHLY suggest you read through it as most if not all the questions you will likely have, have already been addressed!

  18. Quote Originally Posted by ryan4415 View Post
    thank your for your reply its nice to see a new comer is able to get a response from a seemingly well educated individual on this subject .
    Each pill is 1500mg BA and 300 L-Histidine i take four pills a day
    Two pills 30 min before i work out and then two 6 hours later as directed by the maker. so i get a total of 6g a day of ba and 1200mg of hitidine a day. wasn't a bad price 24.99 but I defenately will try your product the next go round. and possibly tell you the difference i have noticed.
    Would you mind,saying which brand, as I don't think you will bet getting those amounts per pill, more like per SERVING. Let me know

  19. Some awesome info here. Looks like I have found something to take with my Xtend. This will be in my next order at NP fo sho. Question though. I have tried creatine several times in the past and I have come to the conclusion that I do not respond to it like most others do (at all). Have you ever heard of BA non responders?

  20. Quote Originally Posted by natedogg View Post
    Some awesome info here. Looks like I have found something to take with my Xtend. This will be in my next order at NP fo sho. Question though. I have tried creatine several times in the past and I have come to the conclusion that I do not respond to it like most others do (at all). Have you ever heard of BA non responders?
    I believe we had ONE person say they "didn't feel anything" from IXL, but they only used it for 4 weeks......we do not really know what their training or diet looked like ect.....

  21. i think there was a mix up by me reading the lable, but i was taking muscle blast elite series which had 1500 mg per "serving" which was two pills and suggested use was 2 servings a day. i have now started taking H+ blocker though am not sure if i really enjoy the product. Could you shin some light on the differences between H+ Blocker and intraxcell ??

    i am ordering the intraxcell this time around but i was curious if i could take it with noxplode ? i know the studies show it is safe to take with creatine. So far with my experince with creatine cell mass and noxplode together have probably worked the best.
    though this cycle of expand i am using now for the first time is doing wonders.
    Any who, i was considering taking yoru product with the two BSN products noxplode and cellmass because these products work well( and work well for mein the past) have one several awards for best muscle building product and best creatine at least on bodybuilding.com
  22. Exclamation





    In this months issue of MD(March, pg 178), we collaborated in witting a review of a recent beta-alanine research study. Additionally, the IntraXCell study is mentioned, as both our study and the one reviewed both used 400m sprints as one of the testing protocols.
  23. Concerning Beta Alanine, Lactic Acid, and HGH


    This discussion is taken from another forum and may be of interest.


    Quote Originally Posted by papagunz View Post
    Unfortunately I don't have any scientific journals to cite for this, which I apologize for, but I've read a crap load of articles and would like some air cleared.

    Concerning lactic acid and subsequent release of GH, I am under this impression:

    "Short rest intervals lead to an increased production of lactate, and an increase in lactate leads to dramatic increases in Growth Hormone, thus resulting in very significant losses of body fat." - Charles Polinquin in the article "Lactic Acid Training for Fat Loss"

    Here's where my beta alanine question ties in. I've read various things, and I just want it straight. Some camps say that it lowers the amount of lactic acid developed, some say that it just lowers its effects (acidosis via H+). Which is it?

    Does beta alanine indirectly blunt lactic acid production, therefore by my understanding lowering released GH? OR does beta alanine simply reduce the effects of acidosis and not blunt lactate production, thereby allowing more lactic acid to be produced thanks to a higher muscular endurance threshold, and consequently more GH released as a result?

    Thanks guys. And, if I'm completely off base, please tell me. Tactfully, if you don't mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    Ok, first GH secretion is quite a complex process that is both directly and indirectly stimulated. It's not even close to as simple as stated above or even in my explanation. But it atleast mine will be much closer to being accurate!

    Regarding exercise, GH secretion is sensitive to these main stimuli:
    1.Volume of exercise
    2. The amount of rest between sets
    3. Resistance used
    4. Catecholamines, primarily epinephrine can also stimulate GH release.

    Some of these stimuli or variables do lead to increased H+ and lactate concentrations, which in tern do increase GH release.

    The last part, where it says, resulting in significant loss of body fat is not supported by any research I have ever seen. And I find it highly doubtful.

    Moving along..




    Most people, really have no clue how beta-alanine works or have a proper understanding of glycolysis, which is why there is so much weird information out there on beta-alanine.

    The ANSWER is it affects BOTH!! It reduces lactic acid formation and fights the drop in pH caused by increased H+ concentrations. NOW I have never seen anyone ANYWHERE explain how BA can reduce lactic acid formation and I wont actually be disclosing this either. But, I will say this, if you dig DEEP enough inside the pathways of glycolysis and TRULY understand how it works and how carnosine comes into play, you can understand how beta-alanine can reduce lactic acid formation. You will also understand, why lactate levels may stay the same or actually decrease, even when performance is increasing when supplementing with BA. Yet another reason why measuring lactate in beta-alanine performance testing is not very helpful. VT tests are MUCH better.

    I got into this exact discussion with some of the top phD researchers in the world and initially we came to one conclusion. In a nutshell, that lactate levels should actually increase due to glycolysis being able to carry on longer due to increased CARN concentrations soaking up more H+. But after some deep research myself, I came to a much bigger picture and I believe many of them agree with me now.



    Based on how I believe beta-alanine can both reduce lactic acid formation but also allow increased lactate ion levels to occur, I would say NO significant affect one way or the other. Just in case you don't want to take my word, there is a beta-alanine study that actually showed that beta-alanine DID NOT alter GH concentrations.

    Lastly, I don't think GH release during exercise matters that much to begin with, so it's kind of a moot point. Most of GH's affects come through boosting IGF1 and guess what? IGF1 has been shown to increase during exercise INDEPENDENTLY of GH.
    Quote Originally Posted by papagunz View Post
    Thank you! This **** is extremely fascinating.

    I'm still undeclared, perhaps I should venture into biology...
    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    No problem, there's alot of inaccurate stuff out there on how beta-alanine supposedly works. Since 2006, I have done my best to squash alot of the myths and misinformation, through magazine article and threads like these!
    Quote Originally Posted by in10city View Post
    This basic premise is off? Clear me up, since that's what I've gathered thus far

    Beta-Alanine works in the muscle and the lactic acid feedback mechanism that stimulates GH release occurs in the blood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    Nope not off at all. You first need to think where the primary source of lactic and H+ are produced(within the muscles{intracellulary}) Our first line of defense against this is of course intracellular buffers like CARN. There is a close relationship between intracellular and extracellular buffers,with intracellular buffers being your first line of defense reducing the amount of H+ and lactic acid that then go into extracellularly fluid/blood circulation. They work as a team, not separate.

    Lactate produced in the muscles, circulates through the BLOOD to the liver and kidneys. Importantly the lactate that goes to the liver can then go through gluconeogenesis and produce us some glucose to be used as fuel. By controlling pH within the muscles, you will also greatly modulate pH in the blood. This in a nushell is part of the Cori Cycle. Look into it for a better understanding of everything I am saying.


    Good question btw
    Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    But I might add, the quotes in the OP first post probably didn't know this, so yes their basic premise is probably off!

    Also high amounts of H+ limit fat oxidation, so he is wrong about that as well.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Athletic Edge N View Post
    This discussion is taken from another forum and may be of interest.
    i remember reading that! lol...just to let u know im slightly depressed bc i went to order intrabolic last night and it was out of stock at nutra!!! so i cried and am hoping its back soon lol
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